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Thread: Create-A-Servant 3

  1. #6021
    超刻 Hyperreal Nuclear's Avatar
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    Let me preface this with review with a statement that I agree with your assessment that David was sorely done dirty by FGO's writers. That said, your version also has several significant pitfalls that prevent me from liking it.
    Archer – David-Hayk
    I'm inclined to agree with Royd on this one (le shock). Going the way of blobbing Hayk together with David seems to me a disservice to both these legends. David as "the holy warrior" strikes me as someone who can make a standalone Servant, same with Hayk. Their combination doesn't really bring anything "new" to the table, so to speak, unlike the blobbing we see in Hessian Lobo.
    Archer is a rare kind of servant in that instead of holding merley 1 period able to be marked as the pinnacle of his existence where he would manifest as a servant, he instead holds three separate periods able to be considered as such “David the Pure Youth” “David the Holy Warrior” and “David the King” each able to be described as a pinnacle of his existence and an existence able to be summoned in it’s own right. This distinction is also perhaps a reflection of a greater parallel of circumstances and details between the story of Jesus and that of David’s own, both being described as having three distinct phases of their life, suffering betrayal from an ally, exorcising spirits, and being forced to undergo many trials in life.
    This I agree with. The stock David suffers much from trying to cover all the bases of David's life within a single Servant.
    In opposition to most Christian servants Archer thinks rather poorly of the Church as an institution and it’s high ups oft calling them “devils in white robes”, although given the greater context of perversion and abuse of the faith for monetary gains, repeated abuse of power by sitting officials, the questionable conduct of the exorcists, and the flagrant use of the Church, the Lord’s teachings, and the Papacy for political purposes perhaps this should not come as a surprise.
    This is the most offensive thing in this sheet for me. Firstly, why would God's vice-regent on earth (as you keep reminding the reader in the Skills and Noble Phantasm section) badmouth... God's vice-regent on earth? Well, one answer would be because the former was running on the conception of "politics" peddled by the swindlers and charlatans we call """Enlightenment philosophers""".

    Politics, as seen in the Bible, is an activity of the divine. We see it when God creates the world, ordering the earlier creations to the service of the higher. We see it when He arbitrates between Cain and Abel. We see it when He decides to warn Noah about the flood He is about to send. We see it God promising Abraham land, a family, and a blessing. Note that in these incidents, God's action has a purpose, an end (unlike the actions of our current political leaders). This "end", as our best friend Tommy Aqua says, is "to live according to virtue".

    David, like Samuel, Joshua, and Moses before him, only participate in this divine action; in other words, their political powers and responsibilities are derived from, and ought to mirror, that of God. That is, David also has the responsibility of leading his people to virtue, not unlike how a shepherd leads his sheep. Well, surprise surprise, that's the Pope's job too! Otherwise he'd look quite ridiculous for claiming the title Pastor Bonus. All this is to say that disliking the Church for being "politicized" is a patently incorrect notion because the Church has been from the moment of its conception political.

    But whatevs.
    Magic Resistance [A+]- Nullifies spells of A Rank or below, at this level modern mages would not be able to harm Archer. Even the arts of the Church ordinarily a blindspot for heroic spirits are ineffective due to David’s divinity granting him protection from “arts utilized by an intuition of worship honoring the Christ” thus rendering them useless against him.
    Why invert the sacrament clause of David's Magic Resistance?
    Pioneer of the Stars [EX]- A rare skill associated with those who have become turning points in human history by performing feats deemed “difficult” or “impossible” into “events that can be realized”. David who was ordained and prophesied as the future king of Jerusalem was tasked with the impossible tasks of overcoming Goliath, surviving and outlasting Saul’s anger, and so forth. In succeeding in doing so David achieved what was prophesied and would continue the bloodline which would result in the birth of the Christ a millennia later.
    None of the things you mentioned feel particularly Pioneer of the Stars-worthy to me tee-bee-eff.
    The Sword of Strange Hangings, Guidance from God - EX
    This is quite possibly the "stop stop he's already dead" moment for me. You said from the outset of this sheet that you wanted to "fix" the presentation of David in FGO. It is highly ironic, then, that by explicitly leaning on the connection between the sword David obtained from Goliath and the sword Galahad uses, you fall into the trap of another Servant who got done dirty by FGO's writers (and one who debuted in the same singularity, no less): Hektor. Hektor's sheet fails because his NP's are literally just reskins of Durandal (among other things). Doing the same thing here also has the same effect of diluting the actual deeds of David. Also, I don't agree with the Galahad bashing, as Royd said (le shock times two).
    Path to Jerusalem, The Lord’s Trials - B
    Does this really need to be an NP? You could've just said something like "Archer is David from when he was attempting to wrest the kingship from Saul, so he conceptually attracts great hardships and trials to his person" and left it at that.
    Oratio Dominica
    Why is this in Latin? "Abun d'bashmayo" is Aramaic, and probably the closest you can get to Hebrew. Also you could've just reinterpreted Hamesh Avanim along these lines, no need for the unnecessary pussy-footing.
    Last edited by Nuclear; November 4th, 2021 at 01:24 AM.

  2. #6022
    I'm a peaceful woman with bad intentions. Lady Vanatos's Avatar
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    Pretty much what Royd and Nuclear said. I can appreciate the attempt mind you and I can totally see what yer going for but I don't think it panned out. It's actually biggest issue personally for me is that it doesn't play into either side, David or Hyak, enough. Like this is a servant you go ham with dude. That being said, I like the base concept and I'd love to see it fleshed out more.
    Current FGO setup

  3. #6023
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    Last edited by Cursed by Fortuna; July 3rd, 2022 at 09:10 PM.
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  4. #6024
    超刻 Hyperreal Nuclear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed by Fortuna View Post
    I honestly am a little lost for word on this one. I mean wow dude, you can't think of any reason that David, a Jewish king would have any reason to take umbrage with the church an institution that need I remind you oversaw, normalized, and conducted regular mistreatment and persecution of Jewish people based on their role in the death of Jesus Christ, ignoring the fact that said event was needed to forgive all men from sins, ignoring the fact that they were condemning an entire religion for the actions of the actions of a guilty handful (something the Bible itself teaches against as wrong) and refusing to forgive them, despite the Bible basically teaching that rather than it being a case of "It's X regions fault" it was more of "Because of original sin and the absence of forgiveness all men can fall into wickedness and corruption and become trapped there".
    I mean, the raving mob demanding the Christ's execution did voluntarily take on the blood guilt for condemning him to death, so, y'know, Jesus' followers might be a little miffed about that little fact.
    To turn to a more modern lens Pope Francis himself upon seeing that Santa Muerte a figure many in Mexico and around the globe are flocking to (in Mexico's case I can speculate this is due to their seeing it as a way of coping with the ongoing tool of the eternal war on gangs, drugs, corruption, and violence in the country, worshiping and placing death in a key place on their lives to cope). It is fully within their rights to do so, and given we live in the 21st century should be something which should be if not celebrated by the church at least accepted as their right and choice to do so.

    Pope Francis in 2016 actively attacked the people of Mexico for turning to Santa Muerte, basically accusing them of devil worship (ignoring the future includes elements of Catholic folk saint religion), and basically showing next to no attempt to try and understand why they were turning to Santa Muerte, only that it was "wrong" of them to do so. The reason for this is simple, Central and South America represent a large chunk of Christians and by proxy a large chunk of people to pay tithes or give donations, therefore he basically lashed out at them for leaving because bit means less cash flow. Pope Francis has also expressed interest of trying harder to spread into Africa and Asia for a second renaissance of the church, I don't think I need to tell you both that this likely could be seen as disrespectful to existing cultures and religions who may not want to be displaced by the church and likely another paper thin attempt to curry more follower and more cash.
    Oh, no! Heaven forbid the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church attempt to address the rising tide of Mexican apostates! He should just leave them be to worship their strange gods and risk their eternal damnation! Yeah, that's what Jesus would do!
    I also don't think I need to mention the numerous sex scandals which at the very minimum the cardinals if not the pope himself would ilk have had some knowledge of and may have helped cover up to save face.
    Okay, you got me on this one. But if there's someone who should be more pissed about this than you, it's me.
    Need I also remind you that the Church literally fought multiple wars that caused thousands of deaths over a single plot of land, which holy or not should not be forgotten, or excused.
    There's legit a veritable torrent of sources explaining how the Crusades were a necessary defense against Arab incursions floating around the Internet . Do yourself a favor and research them.
    As I point out in the sheet itself ​Being considered a representative of god does not excuse you for doing amoral or horrendous things as in the truesest sense there is no excuse for a lot of this, if anything it makes those incidents MORE egregious that a person of such status who is meant to spread a religion of peace and forgiveness would misuse their insinuation and stature to such ends.
    To end this discussion, I find it's quite ironic that you go #NotAllJews when it comes to the Passion of Christ, but are more than willing-- eager, even-- to treat the actions of the Church as that of a single, monolithic entity.

    I was attempting to elicit discussion on David-Hayk's (and, by extension, your) dislike of ecclesiastics by proffering an alternative scriptural framework, but I seem to have struck a nerve. Well, it's likely the entire peripheral nervous system at this point, but I digress. I'm sorry.

  5. #6025
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    David-hayk: maybe I’m just salty tha indrajit wasn’t the grand archer or the degradation of Galahad or that I think I got blocked by you but I think this sheet is a bit meh. I agree that the hayk aspects were really underplayed outside of his last np. You could have easily given him “father of the nation” due to David-hayk being the father of Armenia.

    I feel that the sword of strange hangings is bit too high ranking for its properties. I know clairvoyance and stat boosts in combat is a pretty powerful ability but it’s not worthy of being EX.

    I love his fifth stone ability as I really like the concept of it embodying the hope of David/hayk and I love the concept of “do the impossible” as an EX ranked NP.

    It just doesn’t have the over the top aspects that made me love Santa muerte and erlang Shen.
    Last edited by NINE-lives; November 4th, 2021 at 10:13 AM.

  6. #6026
    Grand Recorder DelRey's Avatar
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    i just interacted with the Beast's Lair History shitshow, saying that I came from the comfy Servant creation part of the forum and see a debate of faith
    "Let's see the color of your coin, my friend."



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    Create-a-Servant 4 soon.

  7. #6027
    Darkened Misty Metropolis Lambda-Nu's Avatar
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    Welcome to the internet, Rey. Shitstorms are a regular occurrence in this environment.
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  8. #6028
    The smell of the lukewarm ocean and the chorus of cicadas RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Consensus View Post
    I mean, the raving mob demanding the Christ's execution did voluntarily take on the blood guilt for condemning him to death, so, y'know, Jesus' followers might be a little miffed about that little fact.
    Oh, no! Heaven forbid the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church attempt to address the rising tide of Mexican apostates! He should just leave them be to worship their strange gods and risk their eternal damnation! Yeah, that's what Jesus would do!
    Okay, you got me on this one. But if there's someone who should be more pissed about this than you, it's me.There's legit a veritable torrent of sources explaining how the Crusades were a necessary defense against Arab incursions floating around the Internet . Do yourself a favor and research them.To end this discussion, I find it's quite ironic that you go #NotAllJews when it comes to the Passion of Christ, but are more than willing-- eager, even-- to treat the actions of the Church as that of a single, monolithic entity.

    I was attempting to elicit discussion on David-Hayk's (and, by extension, your) dislike of ecclesiastics by proffering an alternative scriptural framework, but I seem to have struck a nerve. Well, it's likely the entire peripheral nervous system at this point, but I digress. I'm sorry.
    The points you're making are definitely questionable (amongst other things your first one still only applies to that mob and not all Jews across time) but I don't think it's really productive to argue this over the topic of a Servant sheet. Suffice to say there's a lot of ideas where "insert Biblical figure x" comes to the present only to be disgusted by the corruption of the Church (The Brothers Karamazov even does it with Jesus himself) so it's not strange for Fortuna to want to include that in the sheet. You might not agree with it but that's more a case of deeper philosophical differences than can easily be hashed out here.

  9. #6029
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuclear Consensus View Post
    There's legit a veritable torrent of sources explaining how the Crusades were a necessary defense against Arab incursions floating around the Internet . Do yourself a favor and research them.
    Did you just do a Crusade apologia?

  10. #6030
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    Why the fuck are we having a argument about religion on an servant creation thread anyway.

    I know there are a lot of fringe political opinions on anime threads but I wasn’t expecting to see someone apologizing for the fucking crusades.

  11. #6031
    Anime fans and bringing up random political hot takes, name a better combination.


    But seriously, that escalated extremely quickly.

  12. #6032
    Grand Recorder DelRey's Avatar
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    hey servants....right?
    fascinating people becoming superheroes
    so cool

    *scrambles through notes to change topic*
    Pillars of Light! Remember these?
    I kinda wish that each major region on earth has their own pillar
    Any ideas on what kind of Pillar Africa could get?
    "Let's see the color of your coin, my friend."



    Behold my vault of Heroes.
    Where the Heavens and the Abyss breath the Music of Humanity.


    The King's duty is to provide. And provide, I shall.
    University of Formatting | Gallery of Potential | Memorandum of the Extra Class Kings

    Our Kingdom will grow. And we shall know each citizen.
    Create-a-Servant 4 soon.

  13. #6033
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    Mwindo’s flyswatter lol.

  14. #6034
    Grand Recorder DelRey's Avatar
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    elaborate, i am intrigued
    "Let's see the color of your coin, my friend."



    Behold my vault of Heroes.
    Where the Heavens and the Abyss breath the Music of Humanity.


    The King's duty is to provide. And provide, I shall.
    University of Formatting | Gallery of Potential | Memorandum of the Extra Class Kings

    Our Kingdom will grow. And we shall know each citizen.
    Create-a-Servant 4 soon.

  15. #6035
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    Mwindo (protagonist of the mwindo epic, basically African Heracles) has a magic flyswatter that can basically do anything from repelling seven consecutive spears to resurrecting the dead to calling divine lightning.

    I highly recommend watching the overly sarcastic productions video on mwindo to understand who he is.
    Last edited by NINE-lives; November 4th, 2021 at 01:17 PM.

  16. #6036
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    i just interacted with the Beast's Lair History shitshow, saying that I came from the comfy Servant creation part of the forum and see a debate of faith
    honestly i didnt get about what they made such heted discussions but i made this for that \/

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  17. #6037
    Your average angst/edge supplier BnEl15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NINE-lives View Post
    Mwindo (protagonist of the mwindo epic, basically African Heracles) has a magic flyswatter that can basically do anything from repelling seven consecutive spears to resurrecting the dead to calling divine lightning.

    I highly recommend watching the overly sarcastic productions video on mwindo to understand who he is.
    Ah, OSP is a good channel in general. I learned about Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed from them.

  18. #6038
    Grand Recorder DelRey's Avatar
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    mwindo is such a weird fella, i like it
    feels a bit like a Lambda Nu Servant

    but no the flyswatter is not something that should be a Pillar
    i mean pillars are something related to the earthly structure. What could africa have?
    c'mon Nine, absurd thoughts about bit concept is stuff you are interested in
    "Let's see the color of your coin, my friend."



    Behold my vault of Heroes.
    Where the Heavens and the Abyss breath the Music of Humanity.


    The King's duty is to provide. And provide, I shall.
    University of Formatting | Gallery of Potential | Memorandum of the Extra Class Kings

    Our Kingdom will grow. And we shall know each citizen.
    Create-a-Servant 4 soon.

  19. #6039
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    mwindo is such a weird fella, i like it
    feels a bit like a Lambda Nu Servant

    but no the flyswatter is not something that should be a Pillar
    i mean pillars are something related to the earthly structure. What could africa have?
    c'mon Nine, absurd thoughts about bit concept is stuff you are interested in
    Why always Pillars and no Shield of Wind or Sky that use the Gravity of the World i mean the pillar alla Rhongomyniad are cool yes but thats not the only thing , a FAn like Sword or something would be interesting .
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  20. #6040
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    “The iroko tree is feared in some cultures where it originates and hence is shunned or revered with offerings.[17] Yoruba people believe that the tree is inhabited by a spirit, and anybody who sees the Iroko-man face to face becomes insane and speedily dies.[18] According to the Yoruba, any man who cuts down any iroko tree causes devastating misfortune on himself and all of his family,[18] although if they need to cut down the tree they can make a prayer afterwards to protect themselves.[19]“

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