Create-A-Servant 3

[Lambda-Nu]

I always get those mixed up but I did indeed mean the Mesoamerican ones. Also, so the implications that primitive cultures were too 'stupid' to realize their gods weren't gods doesn't seem even a tiny bit racist to you? It does to me.

Well, I have a low opinion on the intelligence of humanity as a whole, so not really. A person is smart but people are stupid. Secondly, similar instances of a culture that can be considered primitive mistaking a more advanced culture for gods and worshipping them have occured in real life.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

[Kabalisto Koga]

Question has someone perhaps faceclaim Pictures for Greek Wrestlers or old muscle men ?

[RoydGolden]

As you yourself have admitted, he's really wanked, but I only attribute that wank to the effects of Protection of the Pantheon. Being able to use all the Olympians' NPs is too much, I'd tone it down to a sort of buff-fest at best. His first NP is a really ingenious way to join electricity with oration, and it's good to see you even referenced mecha-Zeus' mouth-beam.

I actually totally forgot about Zeus' mouth-beam, so you can consider that a benign coincidence. Thanks for the feedback in any case Padoru.

[Anju Addams]

Well, I have a low opinion on the intelligence of humanity as a whole, so not really. A person is smart but people are stupid. Secondly, similar instances of a culture that can be considered primitive mistaking a more advanced culture for gods and worshipping them have occured in real life.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

I suppose I may be reading too far into it but it did rub me the wrong way when I heard about it. I'll look into it a bit more carefully I think.

Who do you mean with Helena ? and what is actually your opinion About the Foreigner class in Grand order ?

Why is Helena a random loli rather than a mystical old woman like she was IRL? Her design looks cool but it doesn't really evoke a wise old woman like Jack evokes deranged little kid. As for Foreigners, I'm not too fond of them. I'd rather the Servants be connected to historical fact rather than random Cthulhu shit and just have Cthulhu shit be separate but sometimes it works. I think Hokusai is the only one right now where you could take out the Foreigner and it would work as a standard Caster.

Although there was an excellent Van Gogh one around here that was pretty accurate to history, so it's not all bad.

[Kabalisto Koga]

Well, I have a low opinion on the intelligence of humanity as a whole, so not really. A person is smart but people are stupid. Secondly, similar instances of a culture that can be considered primitive mistaking a more advanced culture for gods and worshipping them have occured in real life.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Well i think that despite many Things are Logical explainable are also Things between Heaven and Earth that are outside the spehre that science can reach .

[Kabalisto Koga]

I suppose I may be reading too far into it but it did rub me the wrong way when I heard about it. I'll look into it a bit more carefully I think.



Why is Helena a random loli rather than a mystical old woman like she was IRL? Her design looks cool but it doesn't really evoke a wise old woman like Jack evokes deranged little kid. As for Foreigners, I'm not too fond of them. I'd rather the Servants be connected to historical fact rather than random Cthulhu shit and just have Cthulhu shit be separate but sometimes it works. I think Hokusai is the only one right now where you could take out the Foreigner and it would work as a standard Caster.

Although there was an excellent Van Gogh one around here that was pretty accurate to history, so it's not all bad.

Im still unshure how to find Forreigners as i find that why Arent counting Demons/Daemon like those of old Testament etc in there as Demons/Daemons are somewhat also beings outside our plane ?

in either case the nearest of an Forreigner i made is Hermes Trismegistos please tell me how you find "him" would i be curious to hear ?

[Anju Addams]

Im still unshure how to find Forreigners as i find that why Arent counting Demons/Daemon like those of old Testament etc in there as Demons/Daemons are somewhat also beings outside our plane ?

in either case the nearest of an Forreigner i made is Hermes Trismegistos please tell me how you find "him" would i be curious to hear ?

I believe Foreigners are explicitly tied to Cthulhu Mythos entities (and for whatever reason, Space Rhongomyniad?) but it was noted in Fate/Extra that True Daemons are extraordinary similar to the aforementioned creatures. I would not be surprised if it turned out they were the same sort of being at some point. As for Hermes Trismegistus I don't know too much about them to really comment on your version yet. I may read it later but it's late where I live at the minute.

[Dragolord09]

I think this is a discussion best taken to either the Story and Lore or General Discussion threads.

[King of Padoru]

Because you meention it what is your oppinion About the Olympics as Maschine Deities ? I wasnt very fond of that to be honest ,but what do we know About the Nasu verse Atlantis actually as i have an servant that could have it as noblephantasm ?

I'm joining this discussion late, but I'll answer your question anyways.

I didn't really like the idea when it was hinted at first, but it has grown on me over time. Personally, I think it's a nice way to expand the Nasuverse lore and expand on the alien theme Nasu seems to be fond of lately. Athough I'd have preferred that they went this route for Hindu mythology rather than Greek, since it's the most insane in terms of power levels and it has actually been nerfed in Nasuverse (with a few exceptions like Shiva and Kama). It could also have been tied to Buddhism and the idea (that I think it was Shiki-pon who mentioned it once) of Buddha as a super-genius scientist trying to explain the Universe.

[Kabalisto Koga]

I think this is a discussion best taken to either the Story and Lore or General Discussion threads.

Í know but such discussions Arent bad as they breathe live in the thread .

[Comun]

Lu Bu apparently being a robot now.

Lu Bu was vaguely hinted to be robot in /EXTRA and FGO just kept the hints consistent with his introduction without ever going into detail on what Lu Bu's deal actually is. I'm expecting to see his secret revealed in the /Extella sequel since this one is hinted to be about the mechgods.

I always get those mixed up but I did indeed mean the Mesoamerican ones. Also, so the implications that primitive cultures were too 'stupid' to realize their gods weren't gods doesn't seem even a tiny bit racist to you? It does to me.

I can't get the thought process behind "being too stupid to realize their gods weren't gods", probably because I don't see what makes them not gods. What are the requirements here? Being native from Earth? Being born of nature?

The Greeks had both native gods born of nature (Medusa's family + unspecified others) and the more powerful mechgods and chose the latter as their object of worship. Does picking the stronger beings make them stupid just because the stronger beings are not from our nature?

Why is Helena a random loli rather than a mystical old woman like she was IRL?

Her magecraft does that. But I do agree they went way to far with how much she can magically deage her self. She could at least look like an adult of Holmes' age.

As for Foreigners, I'm not too fond of them. I'd rather the Servants be connected to historical fact rather than random Cthulhu shit and just have Cthulhu shit be separate but sometimes it works.

Strongly agreed, although I'd personally rather not have Cthulu shit at all.

I didn't really like the idea when it was hinted at first, but it has grown on me over time. Personally, I think it's a nice way to expand the Nasuverse lore and expand on the alien theme Nasu seems to be fond of lately.

I still don't like the mechgods in particular, but I always loved the idea of having all pantheons being so wildly different in nature. The ORT bacteria is a lot more fitting of an idea, since it connects the Latin America-related lore established before Fate/ with actual Mexican stuff, being believable enough both with the Yucatan impact and with how secondary souls actually work in Aztec tradition.

I guess the mechgods tie in with Talos, but that feels like a weak connection to me.

[Anju Addams]

Lu Bu was vaguely hinted to be robot in /EXTRA and FGO just kept the hints consistent with his introduction without ever going into detail on what Lu Bu's deal actually is. I'm expecting to see his secret revealed in the /Extella sequel since this one is hinted to be about the mechgods.

Which is stupid. Why can't Lu Bu be just a regular guy instead of all this sci-fi bullshit. You expect me to believe Feudal China had mecha?

I can't get the thought process behind "being too stupid to realize their gods weren't gods", probably because I don't see what makes them not gods. What are the requirements here? Being native from Earth? Being born of nature?

The Greeks had both native gods born of nature (Medusa's family + unspecified others) and the more powerful mechgods and chose the latter as their object of worship. Does
picking the stronger beings make them stupid just because the stronger beings are not from our nature?

I had a problem with how it was implied that these aliens/spacevirus pretended to be divine beings to non-European cultures who were too 'primitive' to know better and that they were being deceived but that western religions like Christianity and Norse were apparently completely accurate. Imagine if the same thing was revealed for African, Islamic or Native American pantheons. There would be an uproar.

However, as someone said - I may be reading into this too much but it still rubs me the wrong way somewhat.

Her magecraft does that. But I do agree they went way to far with how much she can magically deage her self. She could at least look like an adult of Holmes' age.

Same problem I have with Wu Zetian. Her character is great and I have a soft spot for her design due to it being made by the Disgaea artist but why is she a loli? IIRC there was an aged up version of her in the Agartha manga adaptation who looks way better. Qin Shi Huang's old design was better too, but I have more problems with him than that.

Strongly agreed, although I'd personally rather not have Cthulu shit at all.

Cthulhu shit is fine although my problem with it lies in the fact that they are presented as generic space monsters rather than unfathomable monstrosities. However, that's always been a problem with most adaptations of the series regardless.

[Kabalisto Koga]

Which is stupid. Why can't Lu Bu be just a regular guy instead of all this sci-fi bullshit. You expect me to believe Feudal China had mecha?



I had a problem with how it was implied that these aliens/spacevirus pretended to be divine beings to non-European cultures who were too 'primitive' to know better and that they were being deceived but that western religions like Christianity and Norse were apparently completely accurate. Imagine if the same thing was revealed for African, Islamic or Native American pantheons. There would be an uproar.

However, as someone said - I may be reading into this too much but it still rubs me the wrong way somewhat.



Same problem I have with Wu Zetian. Her character is great and I have a soft spot for her design due to it being made by the Disgaea artist but why is she a loli? IIRC there was an aged up version of her in the Agartha manga adaptation who looks way better. Qin Shi Huang's old design was better too, but I have more problems with him than that.



Cthulhu shit is fine although my problem with it lies in the fact that they are presented as generic space monsters rather than unfathomable monstrosities. However, that's always been a problem with most adaptations of the series regardless.

At first How did you do that each Paragraph is separeted Quote replied acually ?

About Lu Bu i am on your side instead of an Ancient Cyborg would it made more sense with as Explanation that he is either possesing chineses oni blood or is perma pushed full of boosting potions that are causing him to become such paranoid .

I dont think you interprete to much as some aspects of an Setting can have an embassy withhin it but like i said before does this Mecha deity Thing leaves an bad aftertaste also tthat with the design of Oddyseus as power ranger with an Troja Horse Megazord instead of an Conceptual Beast with an sort of Intangibility abbillity . i mean i have Nothing against power ranger a and similar but i just like series more that are based on "Ancient /Magical powers ".

About Cthulu and the likes am i still thinking that are demons that having gained the appearance through the Imagination of mankind and example wisse would i make an Dagon sheet would he have an sort of Innocent Monster skill that reflects that.

[Anju Addams]

At first How did you do that each Paragraph is separeted Quote replied acually ?

Copy-Pasting the Quote beginning and ending is your friend.

About Cthulu and the likes am i still thinking that are demons that having gained the appearance through the Imagination of mankind and example wisse would i make an Dagon sheet would he have an sort of Innocent Monster skill that reflects that.

I would consider them more as True Daemons that are separate from humans as they are described as extraordinarily close and True Daemons do not need an Name Designation nor are clad in Mankind's Belief. I'd imagine we will find out later since it's implied Lovecraft is travelling the multiverse under his Randolph Carter identify and Beast Olga Marie has Alter-Ego Servants that directly combat Foreigners. I do admit I would like to see Azathoth in canon as I imagine he's somehow tied to the Root or is the Root (?).
I dunno.

Wouldn't think the Outer Gods would need Innocent Monster either seeing as it was implied Lovecraft apparently got it completely accurate somehow. But if you wanna continue this discussion you may want to PM me. Would probably be better suited to there.

i just like series more that are based on "Ancient /Magical powers ".

Agreed. I'm quite vocal in my distaste for science fiction which is why I was rather disappointed to find Fate was taking that route. It's personal opinion of course so I can agree to disagree.

[Comun]

However, as someone said - I may be reading into this too much but it still rubs me the wrong way somewhat.

It's ok. I personally don't remember any implications of the mechgods tricking humans into divinity (as far as I can tell, they're just space refugees and the humans decided to worship them on their own) but their backstory is extremely recent and it makes perfect sense to go into that interpretation back when all we had was hints.

Same problem I have with Wu Zetian. Her character is great and I have a soft spot for her design due to it being made by the Disgaea artist but why is she a loli?

The explanation for that is such a grade-a bullshit that I feel she would be better of without one, honestly. Since her character is all about constant personal growth, she's summoned in the form where she has the most potential to grow. It's definitely not out of character by any means, but so it's so unorganically tacked on that anyone can tell at first glance this just an excuse to have a loli.

At first How did you do that each Paragraph is separeted Quote replied acually ?

Copy the quote block into each paragraph.

[asterism42]

It's especially galling in Zetian's case because Servants are supposed to be summoned at their peak, which thus makes it odd for someone who was already an old woman when she won the throne to appear as a child. And all of Zetian's skillset revolves around her as an empress rather than a consort or a child.

And I think the fact that they had to run through so many hoops to justify it annoys me more.

[Anju Addams]

Here's the one from the Agartha manga anyway.

[Kabalisto Koga]

Here's the one from the Agartha manga anyway.

Looks actually better then the loli design in my oppinion

[Shiki-pon]

FC Link
Alternate Classes: Caster
True Name: Moremi Ajasoro
Alignment: Lawful Good
Origin: Africa (12th century)
Armament: Staff

Parameters:
STR: D
END: D+
AGI: C
MANA: C
LUCK: B
NP: C+

Skills

Class Skills

Presence Concealment - Rank -: The capacity to hide one's presence as a Servant. It is a common Class Skill of the Assassin class.
The Presence Concealment Skill has been lost due to her 'Espionage' Skill.

Personal Skills

Golden Rule (Body) - Rank C: A Skill that denotes the possession of a natural and perfect goddess-like body, preserving beauty. Unlike the Natural Body Skill where body shape does not change despite how much caloric intake was taken, there is no effect on the Skill owner's Strength parameter.
Assassin is remembered as a figure of legendary beauty among her people. Her beauty was such that it allowed her to ascend to become a rival tribe’s queen during her infiltration.

Espionage - Rank B+: A Skill that does not conceal one’s presence, but rather makes one's presence fail to register as hostile. This Skill causes others to misunderstand one's status, including mistaking one for a kind neighbor, a harmless pebble, or as the most beloved person.
Greatly reduces the ability of opponents to register Assassin as hostile. However, clear thinking can still reveal her true status to an enemy. Incidentally, her use of this Skill is more effective on male targets.

Spiritual Evocation - Rank B: A Skill that allows one to reacquire past knowledge and abilities by performing spiritual possession of past incarnations. It is also possible to call forth spirits of nature.
Assassin’s use of this Skill is unorthodox, being a tradition of her own people rather than an application of a more common Thaumaturgical System. She is able to call forth and establish contracts with Nature Spirits and her ancestors.

Noble Phantasms

Guidance of the River Spirit

Didari Esimirin

Anti-Spirit, Rank B

A Noble Phantasm born from her contract with the river spirit Esimirin. Through this contract, she received guidance in how to uncover and exploit the weaknesses of a tribe of raiders attacking her people. Through this, Assassin was able to see past their disguise as spirits and exploit the disguise to defeat the raiders. As repayment, she was forced to sacrifice her own son as tribute. This price is considered to be ‘already paid’ for the purpose of using this Noble Phantasm.
Didari Esimirin’s activation manifests as a wide-range debuff effect. Though dealing no damage, it removes the status of targets as ‘spirits’, rendering them into ordinary mortal forms for its duration. When targeting Heroic Spirits, it locks them into their material bodies and allows them to be injured by ordinary humans and modern weaponry.
Didari Esimirin also possesses a Clairvoyance-type effect, revealing an enemy’s weak points and increasing Assassin’s critical damage against them.

Burn, False Spirits

Jona Ọlọrun Èké

Anti-Army, Rank C+

A manifestation of Assassin’s driving away of the raiders threatening his people. In legend, she set fire to the spirit disguises of the attackers, driving them to die a fiery death in the forest they used as a hideout. As a Noble Phantasm, it calls upon her people’s spirits, bringing their torches to bear on her enemies.
As she calls upon her people, Assassin becomes surrounded by a mass of will-o’-wisps, the torchlights of generations of her people. At her command, these fires surge forward, attacking enemies in the field like a furious swarm. As they are called forth through Spiritual Evocation, the fires of Jona Ọlọrun Èké are fully magical in nature, and thus subject to defenses blocking these kinds of attacks.

Description

Likes: Her children, festivals
Dislikes: Price gouging, plundering
Talents: Ancestral communion, drumming
Natural Enemy: Christopher Columbus

Assassin’s true identity is Moremi Ajasoro, the Mother of the Yoruba.

A brave and beautiful queen. Though she feels she has to comport herself properly as queen of her people, Moremi moves with a festive air. For the most part, her attempts to stay reserved work out, but the energy in her actions betrays her inner self. She has a liking for festivals, and particularly enjoys masquerades and the like, where she can really let loose without worry for her reputation as queen. She wonders whether a Holy Grail War counts as something that keeps her identity secret, and might indulge herself if she were offered a mask or another implement with which to hide her identity.
Moremi has a deep love for children in general, seeing them as under her protection. Her protective instinct towards her children is exceptionally strong, as she could not forgive herself were she to lose another child’s life. She reacts poorly should someone attempt to unjustly hold power over another, and would likely side with the abused in such a situation. Due to the strife of her people, she also hates those that strive to steal the freedom of others.
Despite herself, Moremi cannot help but feel jealousy toward other Heroic Spirits that are considered the mother figures of their respective peoples. After all, she is not very popular. However, the love of her children is enough for her, even if she should momentarily forget the fact. She also has a weakness against Servants with the appearances of children, being reluctant to harm them.
According to the terms of their contract, Moremi serves her Master loyally. As an ‘ancestor’ summoned to help the people of the future, she will do her utmost. However, she is not beyond striking out against disrespect.
Moremi wishes for her people’s prosperity. She is a bit leery towards the encroachment of different religions on the Yoruba, but is fine with it as long as they continue to remember their roots.

Lore

Moremi Ajasoro was the brave and beautiful Queen of the Yoruba who saved her people from the forest raiders who troubled the peace of her people.
Legend has it that there was a time in Ile Ife, Osun State, that raiders from the forest constantly robbed the people of their peace and freedom. These raiders were known as the Igbo, the Forest People. The people of Ile Ife thought the raiders were spirits sent by the gods to punish them because of the way they appeared, covered in raffia palms, during raids.
During this strife, people lost their property, lives, and houses, and many were taken as slaves. The raids went on for long to the extent that the people of Ile Ife thought of giving up after several fruitless sacrifices to appease their gods.
Deciding to act, Moremi was guided by an oracle to call upon the river spirit Esimirin. In return for her aid, the spirit requested the queen’s most prized possession. With this agreement, Esimirin instructed Moremi to allow herself to be captured by the raiders: then, the spirit told her, she would learn their secret.
The next time the forest raiders came, Moremi did as the spirit had told her. Such was her beauty that she was offered to the Forest People’s king as tribute, and he took her as a wife. Over time, Moremi discovered that the raiders were not spirits at all, but simply warriors in disguise. She also discovered that their disguises, made of dried palm leaves and wood, were vulnerable to fire.
Armed with this knowledge, Moremi fled back to her people. Sharing the raiders’ secret, she and her people prepared. When the next raid came, they were met with flung torches, men and women standing up against the invaders that had long caused Ile Ife to suffer. Thus defeated, the Forest People never encroached on Yoruba lands again.
After the victory, Moremi went to Esimirin to pay her tribute. She came with her most prized jewelry, treasures, and valuable animals. However, this was not what the spirit desired. The queen’s most prized possession was her son, Oluorogbo. Horrified, Moremi tried to bargain with Esimirin, but to no avail. Eventually, she forced herself to pay the spirit’s price, sacrificing her son for the good of her people.
As she mourned her loss, Moremi’s people came to her. Feeling sympathetic to her plight, they offered themselves up as her sons and daughters, so that she could be the mother of all her people. To this day, Moremi Ajasoro is remembered as the Mother of the Yoruba.

[Valfodr]

I had a problem with how it was implied that these aliens/spacevirus pretended to be divine beings to non-European cultures who were too 'primitive' to know better and that they were being deceived but that western religions like Christianity and Norse were apparently completely accurate. Imagine if the same thing was revealed for African, Islamic or Native American pantheons. There would be an uproar.

However, as someone said - I may be reading into this too much but it still rubs me the wrong way somewhat.

This is the only point I'm going to jump in on in this discussion. In the case of the Mesoamerican pantheon, it's no secret that they were a sentient Alien Virus that rode in on the meteor that nuked the Dinosaurs, and given that the Mesoamerican gods were probably lurking around for millions of years before the advent of humanity as a species, the confusion is completely justifiable. The ancient Aztecs probably thought that their gods were spirits who jumped from host to host, and in many ways they weren't entirely wrong.