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Thread: Create-A-Servant 3

  1. #4101
    祖 Ancestor Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anju Addams View Post
    No worries. Everyone has different opinions.


    Yeah. Alien Robots just seems bizarre to me. I'm a lot more fine with it now since I've done a lot of research into ancient automatons from Greek, China etc. but it still weirds me out.


    I mean Nero is one of my top five favourite Servants as mentioned in my signature. TBH I think she could have be done a little better though.
    I'd probably have put her in a toga with a laurel wreath and give her paler skin, messy hair, crazed pupils and eyebags to indicate being poisoned/being insane better.
    Well servants are mostly summoned in their prime state so makes that sense how she canonical Looks , beside although it will Need some time before i got to this Point do i like to Mention that one day i will make a Lostbelt Version of her .

    do you have some servants actually or do you wait also on the actual servant contest ?
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  2. #4102
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    Since Nzambi is from Fate/Requiem she's not actually a Servant by Nasu but Meteo, right? Unless there was an agreement Nasu designed the Servants that appeared there...

  3. #4103
    超高校級のゲーマーガール Anju Addams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Therion View Post
    Honestly, I think Nzambi is one of the worse cases because not only she is a genderbend without reason, she uses powers unrelated to Nzambi, just because zombi sounds like Nzambi. Artoria has an explanation for being a girl and at least is loyal enough to the arthurian myth. I dont know whats worse, Servant like Van Gogh, advertised as person A but are actually person B, or Nzambi.
    Nzambi isn't a genderbend though. She's the wife of Nzambi a Mpungu and an Earth Goddess/Mother Goddess. Also, we haven't even gotten her Mats yet so she could have more stuff later on like Innocent Monster.

    Van Gogh is shit though, so I can agree on that.
    Last edited by Anju Addams; May 31st, 2021 at 04:09 PM.
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  4. #4104
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    I would assume that since he still is the defecto head of the Typemoon series they still have to run things by him, from what I recall there different authors in the series, but not even they seem to not be fully aware what each other is planning (in Strange Fake I think the author regionally intended to have Emperor Qin, appear as the intended false rider, but then he released in FGO which caused them to chance course). However, that being said someone still has to look through and approve all the story drafts, designs, and concepts (acting as the Shepard of the franchise) and I would guess that role is possibly on Nasu. Assuming this is the case then while not entirely on him, but what is on his plate is he should have caught it or advised they be clear on what direction they were taking the character.
    Last edited by Cursed by Fortuna; May 31st, 2021 at 04:04 PM.
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  5. #4105
    夜魔 Nightmare Master_Therion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anju Addams View Post
    Nzambi isn't a genderbend though. She's the wife of Nzambi a Mpungu and an Earth Goddess/Mother Goddess. Also, we haven't even gotten her Mats yet so she could have more stuff later on.

    Van Gogh is shit though, so I can agree on that.
    Fair enough. (I realized I just did that with my latest servant XD)

    Also Fortuna, I havent looked into your servant yet, only caught a glance, but is that the Jade Emperor?
    Last edited by Master_Therion; May 31st, 2021 at 04:16 PM.

  6. #4106
    Local Extra Class Aficionado DelRey's Avatar
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    I feel like Cursed by Fortuna's name checks out. So often his Servants seem to be overshadowed by ongoing discussions.

    Erlang Shen is pretty damn strong, ngl, but that was to be expected. When i read the possible grand lancer i was hyped to see another blog like for grand saber. I wanted to challenge that tho because of his status as a big guy godm but well you explained later his heritage is a bit more special and i cant challenge that, because i have a similar concept for a grand myself.
    I personally do not enjoy ur new format for relations. U say so yourself it is an extension of the character, but ur character is already detailed enough. Patts seem repetitive to me and i enjoy the quotes becausd it is most often than not a bot more brief and it conveys more character to me. It also acts like a short breather inbetween the usual blocks of text (in general not for u specifically) because there is more space. But I do understand if it is more confortable for you that way. I have an easy time creating quotes, for better or worse.
    And didnt you wrote recently you dislike divine spirits? He pretty much is one
    Still cool guy, top servant for sure

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  7. #4107
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed by Fortuna View Post
    I would assume that since he still is the defecto head of the Typemoon series they still have to run things by him, from what I recall there different authors in the series, but not even they seem to not be fully aware what each other is planning (in Strange Fake I think the author regionally intended to have Emperor Qin, appear as the intended false rider, but then he released in FGO which caused them to chance course). However, that being said someone still has to look through and approve all the story drafts, designs, and concepts (acting as the Shepard of the franchise) and I would guess that role is possibly on Nasu. Assuming this is the case then while not entirely on him, but what is on his plate is he should have caught it or advised they be clear on what direction they were taking the character.
    Yes, Nasu proofreads and approves everything that's part of the Nasuverse. However, going by Sanda's experience writting El-Melloi II's Case Files, the process there is reading the drafts and returning it the author with hundreds of notes saying "Are you sure?" and zero notes saying "No". Sanda tweeted this after written 10 whole without receiving a single "No", so Nasu as a supervisor is either extremely spineless or extremely respectful of other people's creativities.

  8. #4108
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    The Jade Emperor is basically the chief god of Chinese mythology (at least if I'm interpreting things right), he is described as one of the three pure ones who embody the tao, the monarch of all the deities in heaven, and a representation or form of the first god.


    Within my head canon the Chinese age of the gods had several jade emperors over time possibly with each subsequent one being either being a reincarnation of the last one or having the spirit of the last jade emperor transferred to them thus continuing the existence of the first god of Chinese myth. Through these two methods technically anyone related to the Jade emperor can become the next Jade emperor either by inheritance or defying the prior one in battle (and normally would be expected to take upon the spirits of the past jade emperors).

    Within my mind the Chinese age of the gods petered out because at some point one of the candidates refused to do this (partly because having so many different souls and minds from different divine spirits inside them was basically making it so that each subsequent Jade emperor was even less mentally stable than the last one [and thus the rate of succession was increasing as time passed]) and either die purified the spirits of the past candidates or sent them to the afterlife, severing the connection with the first god of Chinese myth (the only guy who could hold Chinese myth together) and thus making it so that slowly without their connection to their progenitor the age of the gods ended.

    I suppose if I wanted I cold write it so that the person to break this cycle was Erlang-Shen and that his brother Yang Jiao refused to take the spirits of the past Emperor's upon himself (choosing to send them to the afterlife or purify them even at the cost of severing the last to the first god of Chinese myth), but I think I'll leave it up to the reader's interpretation on if that's how they want to see things. As I said I'm already a little nervous about if I did the lore justice, so no need cramming more details into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    I feel like Cursed by Fortuna's name checks out. So often his Servants seem to be overshadowed by ongoing discussions.

    Erlang Shen is pretty damn strong, ngl, but that was to be expected. When i read the possible grand lancer i was hyped to see another blog like for grand saber. I wanted to challenge that tho because of his status as a big guy godm but well you explained later his heritage is a bit more special and i cant challenge that, because i have a similar concept for a grand myself.
    I personally do not enjoy ur new format for relations. U say so yourself it is an extension of the character, but ur character is already detailed enough. Patts seem repetitive to me and i enjoy the quotes becausd it is most often than not a bot more brief and it conveys more character to me. It also acts like a short breather inbetween the usual blocks of text (in general not for u specifically) because there is more space. But I do understand if it is more confortable for you that way. I have an easy time creating quotes, for better or worse.
    And didnt you wrote recently you dislike divine spirits? He pretty much is one
    Still cool guy, top servant for sure
    The main difference is that he is a candidate for Grand Lancer, He's really meant to be that powerful, if he wasn't strong that would be even more unusual. I also alluded to several instances where abilities of his were watered down or parts of them were shaved off as they just couldn't fit in a normal saint graph. The main difference between a sheet like this and a divine spirit is that divine spirits (most of the time) don't qualify for grand servants (unless you have an innate origin which is earthly and connected to earthly myths), yet still straddle the line between stronger than any normal servant (even top servants), yet not a grand servant.

    I suppose if I can put it in words it's just I'm never sure how strong to make a divine servant level servant, Should they be as strong as an A rank servant? as powerful as a top servant? Stronger than a top servant? If they're stronger than a top servant than what's the point of even having a Grand servant class which is specifically meant to be "stronger than the strongest servants"? In that way it's more I'm never sure how to interpret those sheets or where to put them as they seem to fall into a weird category of "stronger than a normal servant but weaker than a grand servant" which doesn't compute for me.


    I can get the angle with the dialogue quotes, I'll try to add some later tonight to break up the sheet. As for the discussion I'm not going to complain since it partly is something I can only blame myself for and I didn't and don't mind contributing to the conversation as well. TBH I was surprised I got this one out first, I was sure for a moment that Cyrus the Great (Grand Rider), Maui {alternative Grand Rider}, or even King Arthur (Savior) {an alternative Grand Saber which leans into the direction of Christian and Christ symbolism with King Arthur} would have taken this first, but I'm still in planning stages of the ladder, and despite ironing out the personal skills and abilities of the former, I still a bunch of work to do on it.

    Also I was wondering your thoughts on Wechudge / Wendigo as a Grand Berserker for North America [if not I can always fall back on Sisyphus who I had a couple neat ideas for and was probably going to do as a grand breaker candidate anyways* (I'm trying to get as much representation from around the world as I can and it was an idea which came to mind, trouble is I'm not sure if it's famous enough, powerful, or renowned enough; I could go with a direction that the nature of the Wendigo mirroring it's endless hunger actually is a symbol of avarice and consumption, that which consumes the world, but at that point I would feel that would lean more into beast territory than anything heroic).

    * I know Einstien never technically said it but the quote "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" really just made me think it was too perfect to resist


    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Yes, Nasu proofreads and approves everything that's part of the Nasuverse. However, going by Sanda's experience writting El-Melloi II's Case Files, the process there is reading the drafts and returning it the author with hundreds of notes saying "Are you sure?" and zero notes saying "No". Sanda tweeted this after written 10 whole without receiving a single "No", so Nasu as a supervisor is either extremely spineless or extremely respectful of other people's creativities.
    I'm a little surprised by that, but I guess it may be a cultural thing. I retract my former statement, Meteo should have been more clear about his intentions (Nasu seemingly is in the clear for this). But as I said that's just my opinion on the matter.
    Last edited by Cursed by Fortuna; May 31st, 2021 at 04:56 PM.
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  9. #4109
    夜魔 Nightmare Master_Therion's Avatar
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    @Fortuna
    Just read your servant. Never heard of him before, but if he defeated the Jade Emperor, it is natural for him to be on one of the grand classes. Even more fitting, he is also like Quirinus, a god connected enough to humans to be summoned as a grand lancer. What a cool character.

    Rey is right, Relations seems like an extension of Personality, which is already well defined.

    Now, regarding your interpretation of him, he is a really powerful character with the weakest stat at B. Also, you explained the A+ divinity, but in case of a grand lancer, would he also have to lower his divinity like Quirinus to fit that container? Shapeshift EX: 73 forms??? dang, that's a lot. I would like to see a servant like him in action. Overall, all his personal skills fit his character and have cool effects.

    Now for Noble Phantasms. There is the eye you mentioned, cool effect and goes along with Nine Turns Divine Skill. Love his Yakshaka heritage too. Don't have much to say about his second Noble Phantasm, it is neat to summon a companion. Finally, his last NP, the one that made me think he was Jade Emperor. cool effect related with divine and floods, his true strength really sells how powerful this servant his. Great character, he is really broken, specially his 3rd NP, but it is no wonder, given the person he is based on. Besides, you also held back to fit as a servant and not a god by limiting his heritage and transformation. Overall, you made a really good servant.
    Last edited by Master_Therion; May 31st, 2021 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #4110
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    Erlang-Shen technically didn't do that, or if he did that wasn't in any myth I read, that was one change I made. Erlang-Shen was described as serving the Jade-emperor, but with his backstory of the Jade emperor imprisoning his mother ( I changed this to that he killed her and she was imprisoned in the underworld to combine two stories together), killing his older brother (a detail I changed as to explain that his older brother lived and became the next Jade emperor), and possibly killing his mortal father I couldn't envision someone like Erlang-Shen (who is fairly honorable and seemingly all about justice and devotion to one's family) willing serving under him. So I added the plot thread of him killing the his uncle the then current Jade emperor and having his older brother take take the Jade emperor's place to explain why Erlang-Shen would ever work under the jade emperor without making him seem to suddenly have his character act in a way that didn't make sense (that they were different people and that the Jade emperor is simply a title and a position rather than any 1 person).
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    夜魔 Nightmare Master_Therion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed by Fortuna View Post
    Erlang-Shen technically didn't do that, or if he did that wasn't in any myth I read, that was one change I made. Erlang-Shen was described as serving the Jade-emperor, but with his backstory of the Jade emperor imprisoning his mother ( I changed this to that he killed her and she was imprisoned in the underworld to combine two stories together), killing his older brother (a detail I changed as to explain that his older brother lived and became the next Jade emperor), and possibly killing his mortal father I couldn't envision someone like Erlang-Shen (who is fairly honorable and seemingly all about justice and devotion to one's family) willing serving under him. So I added the plot thread of him killing the his uncle the then current Jade emperor and having his older brother take take the Jade emperor's place to explain why Erlang-Shen would ever work under the jade emperor without making him seem to suddenly have his character act in a way that didn't make sense (that they were different people and that the Jade emperor is simply a title and a position rather than any 1 person).
    Even so, great interpretation.

  12. #4112
    祖 Ancestor Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cursed by Fortuna View Post
    The Jade Emperor is basically the chief god of Chinese mythology (at least if I'm interpreting things right), he is described as one of the three pure ones who embody the tao, the monarch of all the deities in heaven, and a representation or form of the first god.


    Within my head canon the Chinese age of the gods had several jade emperors over time possibly with each subsequent one being either being a reincarnation of the last one or having the spirit of the last jade emperor transferred to them thus continuing the existence of the first god of Chinese myth. Through these two methods technically anyone related to the Jade emperor can become the next Jade emperor either by inheritance or defying the prior one in battle (and normally would be expected to take upon the spirits of the past jade emperors).

    Within my mind the Chinese age of the gods petered out because at some point one of the candidates refused to do this (partly because having so many different souls and minds from different divine spirits inside them was basically making it so that each subsequent Jade emperor was even less mentally stable than the last one [and thus the rate of succession was increasing as time passed]) and either die purified the spirits of the past candidates or sent them to the afterlife, severing the connection with the first god of Chinese myth (the only guy who could hold Chinese myth together) and thus making it so that slowly without their connection to their progenitor the age of the gods ended.

    I suppose if I wanted I cold write it so that the person to break this cycle was Erlang-Shen and that his brother Yang Jiao refused to take the spirits of the past Emperor's upon himself (choosing to send them to the afterlife or purify them even at the cost of severing the last to the first god of Chinese myth), but I think I'll leave it up to the reader's interpretation on if that's how they want to see things. As I said I'm already a little nervous about if I did the lore justice, so no need cramming more details into it.



    The main difference is that he is a candidate for Grand Lancer, He's really meant to be that powerful, if he wasn't strong that would be even more unusual. I also alluded to several instances where abilities of his were watered down or parts of them were shaved off as they just couldn't fit in a normal saint graph. The main difference between a sheet like this and a divine spirit is that divine spirits (most of the time) don't qualify for grand servants (unless you have an innate origin which is earthly and connected to earthly myths), yet still straddle the line between stronger than any normal servant (even top servants), yet not a grand servant.

    I suppose if I can put it in words it's just I'm never sure how strong to make a divine servant level servant, Should they be as strong as an A rank servant? as powerful as a top servant? Stronger than a top servant? If they're stronger than a top servant than what's the point of even having a Grand servant class which is specifically meant to be "stronger than the strongest servants"? In that way it's more I'm never sure how to interpret those sheets or where to put them as they seem to fall into a weird category of "stronger than a normal servant but weaker than a grand servant" which doesn't compute for me.


    I can get the angle with the dialogue quotes, I'll try to add some later tonight to break up the sheet. As for the discussion I'm not going to complain since it partly is something I can only blame myself for and I didn't and don't mind contributing to the conversation as well. TBH I was surprised I got this one out first, I was sure for a moment that Cyrus the Great (Grand Rider), Maui {alternative Grand Rider}, or even King Arthur (Savior) {an alternative Grand Saber which leans into the direction of Christian and Christ symbolism with King Arthur} would have taken this first, but I'm still in planning stages of the ladder, and despite ironing out the personal skills and abilities of the former, I still a bunch of work to do on it.

    Also I was wondering your thoughts on Wechudge / Wendigo as a Grand Berserker for North America [if not I can always fall back on Sisyphus who I had a couple neat ideas for and was probably going to do as a grand breaker candidate anyways* (I'm trying to get as much representation from around the world as I can and it was an idea which came to mind, trouble is I'm not sure if it's famous enough, powerful, or renowned enough; I could go with a direction that the nature of the Wendigo mirroring it's endless hunger actually is a symbol of avarice and consumption, that which consumes the world, but at that point I would feel that would lean more into beast territory than anything heroic).

    * I know Einstien never technically said it but the quote "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" really just made me think it was too perfect to resist




    I'm a little surprised by that, but I guess it may be a cultural thing. I retract my former statement, Meteo should have been more clear about his intentions (Nasu seemingly is in the clear for this). But as I said that's just my opinion on the matter.
    That isa quite plausible Theory Fortune i have now made a own thread for Mythologic reconstructions /Theory could you there upload your theories and reconstruction there > https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...on-or-Concepts

    Also About Grand Berserker i think they are beings that are so insane and made that they are again sane at one side , i had once the Theory in that Thor could it be , About Grand Rider will i later Show you mine . and About a second Grand Servant .
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  13. #4113
    祖 Ancestor Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Master therion have you now read my Mage profile more in Detail actually ?

    also was i the only one with Problems to acces the Forum ?
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  14. #4114
    夜魔 Nightmare Master_Therion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kabalisto Koga View Post
    Master therion have you now read my Mage profile more in Detail actually ?

    also was i the only one with Problems to acces the Forum ?
    Huh, was he based on Marik Ishtar from Yugioh? The theme of fire, mind control, family issues, even the name just screams Yami Marik. Anyway, Im too used to Shirou so everything seems OP compared to him, but then again Tsukihime puts the bar really high for spellcasters. In any case, it is an interesting mage. The most defining feature is the similarities with bazet, as in a human NP wielder. Ordeal of Tefnet caught my interest. I like the ritual to give a mana burst and element but at the cost of a curse. Mummy familiars also fit the theme. Lastly, his NP has good limits for a NP handled by a human. Overall, it is a mage fixated on theme of Egypt and is a cool idea. Had some problems understanding some parts, but i think I got the gist.

    Also no, i had the same problem.
    Last edited by Master_Therion; May 31st, 2021 at 07:00 PM.

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    祖 Ancestor Kabalisto Koga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Therion View Post
    Huh, was he based on Marik Ishtar from Yugioh? The theme of fire, mind control, family issues, even the name just screams Yami Marik. Anyway, Im too used to Shirou so everything seems OP compared to him, but then again Tsukihime puts the bar really high for spellcasters. In any case, it is an interesting mage. The most defining feature is the similarities with bazet, as in a human NP wielder. Ordeal of Tefnet caught my interest. I like the ritual to give a mana burst and element but at the cost of a curse. Mummy familiars also fit the theme. Lastly, his NP has good limits for a NP handled by a human. Overall, it is a mage fixated on theme of Egypt and is a cool idea. Had some problems understanding some parts, but i think I got the gist.

    Also no, i had the same problem.
    Catching ! Yeah Marik Ishtar was one of the two Inspiration for him ! I know he is strong but keep in mind he is one of the ten most dangerous combatants in the organization at first ,and second Shirou is rather a specific fighter but with some guidance could he surpass Brand rank in his own field. Are you curious about some other Mages i could show you them?

    Also i admit in comparison to the Mages that we saw in El Melloi case files or fate are many Mages i have modulated for my story on a Level of their own. Like those of a Mage clan which is almost as old of the half human history or a Mage clan which was so powerful in his domain that Mage Association and the Church had to join forces and which is in some sense "extinct" .
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  16. #4116
    Local Extra Class Aficionado DelRey's Avatar
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    Wendigo as Grand Berserker? Well as someone who made that thing an aspect of an Outer God I would say no, but independent from that I am still sceptical. That thing is more of a monster and while those things can become Servants, I do not feel at home with the plan on making that kind of servant a candidate. Wechuge was a rather obscure thing and I made it into the Prime Wendigo in that sheet only because they are similar enough and fit my narrative spot on.
    There was a great Grand Berserker Herakles syncretism a while ago, check that one out, it is actually legit. Else I remember some discussion about Cain/Abel (I always forget who killed whom) being a grand assassin/berserker candidate. But according to Nasu himself after King Hassan relinquished his Crown as Grand, it seems permanently vacant. So Grand Bers it is imo. And if you still wanna create a Grand Assassin (who could blame you) to stay in canon you would need some weird level of Throne and Saint Graph Manipulation to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kabalisto Koga View Post
    had once the Theory in that Thor could it be [Grand Berserker]
    no Koga, no Divine Spirits as Grands
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  17. #4117
    夜魔 Nightmare Master_Therion's Avatar
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    Cain killed Abel. And honestly, I'm pissed Nasu said that only Hassan can be a Grand Assassin. Are you telling me Cain, the father of murder, isn't a Grand Assassin? I understand the limits of Hassans in Fuyuki but I feel it's a wasted opportunity to have Hassan's seat permanently vacant.
    Also, Berserker is a really hard class for me to think for Grand Servants.
    Last edited by Master_Therion; May 31st, 2021 at 07:51 PM.

  18. #4118
    Ominous Shadowy Spoiler Figure Cursed by Fortuna's Avatar
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    Also I've thought a bit more on Erlang-Shen, I mentioned prior that planning on doing a Arjuna (prototype) and Karna (prototype), however I feel with a little bit of additions I could just add what I wanted to covey and discuss; namely the idea of family as not being something strictly based on bloodlines, but instead based on bonds, loyalty, and connections between people (one of the things I find so compelling about Karna in the original myths is his undying loyalty to his surrogate family, even after learning his true heritage [likely because his "real" family never treated him like such and he refused to betray his surrogate family], which in my mind is similar to the major dilemma and theme of Fire Emblem Fates [with Corrin], except executed much better).

    Also this next segment may get a bit into the philosophical territory so I apologize for that (I dealt with a near miss situation with a family member nearly passing away, after suddenly having a downturn in health, they seem to have recovered, but this combined with our family cat currently basically going to have to be put down [his liver has basically shut down and they say there' nothing they can do] has made me think a lot). I may end up doing an explanation or a blog post related to the ideas I have for varying mythological pantheons (like the Chinese, Ainu, and Japanese), but for the Chinese I wanted to explore the idea of immortality and the self-defeating nature of it (Similar to the SoulsBorne-Sekiro series, greatly leaning into Sekiro's themes and musing on the topic). This is an idea explored slightly in Nasu with dead apostle ancestors having to entertain themselves to not go insane over their infinitely long lives, but I wanted to take another approach to it, with inspirations from Sekiro in that immortality and the pursuit of immortality itself is cursed and self-defeating.

    Consider this, why is we consider a flower beautiful? We do so because it is transient, because it blooms, then fades away, only lasting for a fleeting moment, and it is int that moment of brilliance, of beauty, that we find meaning. We as people pursue happiness, but why do we do this? We due it because there are times when we aren't happy, and because those moments we are happy seem to come and go, fleeting, yet fulfilling. Driving us to move forward, to go on, forever in pursuit of that next happy moment. We cherish the good times and hold our memories dear, because we live our lives on a clock, and inevitably the end will come. It is not in the absence of despair we seek joy, it is because we know despair we seek joy. Just as you cannot have light without dark, you cannot have life without death, nor can you have happiness without sorrow or have something good without knowing what is bad.


    This is pitfall the Chinese pantheon fell into when The First God (who I will call Shǒuxiān or "The First off All" for short) created the pantheon and the realm, he worked tirelessly to improve, to make things good, to set outweigh the bad and the gods, his children adored him for that. Eventually there came a time when the heavens were filled with tranquility and order, and all manner of good things. But there was one error that Shǒuxiān did not account for, while at first the gods rejoiced at the idea of living life without any ill, they soon forgot the joy of it, and began to take it for granted, what once was a immense gift, made possible only through the hard work of Shǒuxiān became mundane and expected. This was brought to a shattering halt with the invasion of Velber 02 who struck down Shǒuxiān leaving him dying and bringing the entire way of life the gods had grown drunk upon to risk, fearful they took a fragment of his power, that which was left and gave it to his successor The Jade Emperor to maintain their immortal lifestyle, their perfect paradise. However this fear, this dread of losing what they had gained would soon overuse the Chinese gods, despite the clear toll of the continuous transferal of the power of the Shǒuxiān (which would merge with the souls of the gods it was placed within, requiring the entire god's soul be transferred) on the minds of the succession of Jade Emperors, they still wouldn't let go.

    However, it was this very desperation that ironically destroyed their paradise, the gods no long lived in tranquility, under a just ruler, they lived in hesitance under a succession of ever more unstable madmen with it only being a question of "How long till they have their minds broken by the power of the Shǒuxiān and the voices of the past jade emperors?" The days once spent idyllically living without a care were dominated by excessive indulgence, to the point that the very things the gods were indulging in (battle, wine, song, pleasure, etc.) no longer became special or had the same meaning, for these rare occurrences or spacial moments had become expected and commonplace at best, or at worst were indulgent not for the sake of enjoying them, but instead out of a fear of losing them. The Gods existed, yes, but considering the state they remained in could any claim hey truly lived? They walked through life fearing losing what they had so much that it dominated their every action and thought, never once considering the paradise they sought to preserve and the place they now dwelled within could not be any further apart; to the point that the ladder could only be called a twisted mockery of the former.


    This was the world that Erlang-Shen came across, this was what reality faced him and later his brother when he defeated his uncle, the former Jade Emperor, a heaven that was more nightmare than dream, gods who clung to the rotted husk of a lost paradise, and an uncle ruled by his own fear of being overthrown and filled with such pride he would draw sword against his own flesh and blood for the slightest perceived slight or danger to his rule; Quite possibly driven to mad by the very power meant to keep the "paradise" Shǒuxiān created going. The choice to them was not a choice at all, there was no sense in the path of continuing to try and keep this insanity going, better for the Gods to live their last years, coming to terms with the idea that they were going to fade, that their world and rule would end, that their paradise was gone, yet still trying to find some measure of happiness than forcing them to continue living this twisted half-life. In this way they ended the age of the gods (or began the process that would see it inevitably end), but did so willingly, understanding that the age of the gods never was meant to last forever, because something good cannot last forever, if it would then it would lose whatever meaning it had as "a good thing".
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  19. #4119
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    no Koga, no Divine Spirits as Grands
    Quirinius was an exception because he was human at first
    Just being human first isn't enough. Quirinus also needed to be deeply involved in human history, and stay human even as a supreme deity. This is not an exception you can open with less than 3 different excuses.

  20. #4120
    Ominous Shadowy Spoiler Figure Cursed by Fortuna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    Wendigo as Grand Berserker? Well as someone who made that thing an aspect of an Outer God I would say no, but independent from that I am still sceptical. That thing is more of a monster and while those things can become Servants, I do not feel at home with the plan on making that kind of servant a candidate. Wechuge was a rather obscure thing and I made it into the Prime Wendigo in that sheet only because they are similar enough and fit my narrative spot on.
    There was a great Grand Berserker Herakles syncretism a while ago, check that one out, it is actually legit. Else I remember some discussion about Cain/Abel (I always forget who killed whom) being a grand assassin/berserker candidate. But according to Nasu himself after King Hassan relinquished his Crown as Grand, it seems permanently vacant. So Grand Bers it is imo. And if you still wanna create a Grand Assassin (who could blame you) to stay in canon you would need some weird level of Throne and Saint Graph Manipulation to do that.
    I had a line of Indrajit as Grand Assassin (my idea being that simply being a killer or strong isn't enough one needs a special kind of connection with death) using the idea of him having access to the powers of the Trimūrti (albeit I had to bang my head against the wall to find accurate information on if he did have all 3 Astras of the Trimūrti, consider scrapping the sheet when I found that there was no definitive proof he had the ultimate Astras of either Shiva or Vishnu, then explain why he had Shiva's astra (easy) and how he had Vishnu's (harder but I managed) get a little creative with it, but I managed) and heightened perspective associated with being a demon (a higher class of being that the of a human) to understand the nature of the Trimūrti as the 3 aspects created by Brahman the ultimate truth of the universe and basically the force which fuels all gods [and within my head canon is a pathway to the root in it's own right]. One connected to Brahman who understands Brahman basically gains the power of Brahman, essentially making them a god in that respect, in my head canon this is how Buddha escaped the cycle of reincarnation.

    While Lore-wise I'm going with the idea that Indrajit never used Trimūrti-astra (the name he gave to the hypothetical technique of using the power of Brahman by combining the 3 ultimate Astras together as an offensive weapon) partly because he felt it morally wrong to use it as a weapon, partly because he feared reprisal for doing such from the Trimūrti and partly because it sacred him (to give an idea of what this could do, hypothetically take Hanuman the strongest warrior in the war between Rama and Ravana, if this were used on him, 1 hit would be enough that it would cause his soul to basically try to escape this mortal coil and then transcend the physical universe, forcefully pulling him from the cycle of reincarnation by bestowing upon him the ultimate truth [Hanuman could try to resist this, but it would basically take all his might to do so, to the degree that basically a single good hit after that would distinct him and then cause his soul to escape his metaphorical grasp]) just how strong it was. As a grand I imagine similar to how King Hassan bestowed the concept of death on Tiamat it could "place or removing things from cycle of reincarnation" thus allowing beings like Tiamat to be killed, and things which should be invisible to be destroyed (or even straight up removing things from existence)


    I'm not sure who exactly mentioned it but back when I was doing my lostbelt I did mention the possibility of Cain as a Grand Berserker* or Grand Assassin** (and even had him appear in early drafts [the version of him I had probably was wank enough to count as a grand servant]). As for Wendigo I'm not sure it will work either, but I suppose I just will have to try or keep looking. I do want to eventually try to and get some degree of coverage for the entire globe [save Antartica for obvious reasons] at least as a proof of concept that Grands don't have to be restricted to just Europe or Asia (I was also throwing around the idea of Walumbe / Warlumbe (if he would even count) as an African Grand servant (not from Egypt) as Grand Assassin (he was cited to be the cause for all disease and death in Gandan myth [I just may want to wait on this one as the subject of disease isn't a topic I'm comfortable doing a sheet based around at this point]).

    * While never explicitly going insane the sheer pointlessness of his murder and the way he is viewed in modern culture could certainly lean in this direction

    ** Yet again while certainly not stealthy Cain's actions constitute the 1st instance of someone having ever died in the Aberhamic myths (before even Adam or Eve died) and as a result basically unleashed death onto the world, this combined with the fame of the act would make him probably debate as fitting the role in this point of view.

    ------------------------------------


    As for what I quantify as Grand Berserker, my current definition is that being insane or having gone insane isn't enough (aside from the given that you have to be powerful), rather similar to Grand Saber, you have to basically either exist in a state of perpetual insanity (Sisyphus) or be basically what amounts to the embodiment of the concept of insanity (Jack the Ripper [from Strange Fake]).
    Last edited by Cursed by Fortuna; May 31st, 2021 at 08:28 PM.
    The Nasuverse: Everything you know about history is wrong, people don't die when they are killed, The Archer class is not filled with Archers, and King Arthur is a Girl.

    Behold, The Halls of the Lost Souls lies before you

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    Servant Template and Servant Ideas for anyone's use if they wish

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