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Thread: Create-A-Servant 3

  1. #1601
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    hellooo~ chat. A question for those who are well versed in astrological and/or arabian/persian/muslim history. I wanna do a Foreigner sheet and i am interested in somebody that made use out of "military astrology" from said regions. Ancient people from the middle east seemed to have relied heavily on astrology to plan appointments, weddings, declarations of war and later accurate predictions of the moon phases for religious reasons. Astrologers were therefore often appointed advisors for leaders and i am looking for interesting people that fall in that category of astrologer/leader/advisor etc. that either did a really good or bad job. I am researching myself, but i have problems finding stuff.
    Sultan Ulugh Beg

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    but please don't make another foreigner pls thx

  2. #1602
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamerad View Post
    Sultan Ulugh Beg

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    but please don't make another foreigner pls thx
    It is not for the contest, i am aware of the 2 contribution rule if you mean that or is there a restriction i am not aware of?

    And thx for the suggestion i check them out

  3. #1603
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    It is not for the contest, i am aware of the 2 contribution rule if you mean that or is there a restriction i am not aware of?

    And thx for the suggestion i check them out
    Far as I know it's nothing to do with the contest, he just feels Foreigner Servants are overdone, especially for scientist characters.

  4. #1604
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    in general, a lovecraft-laced foreigner sheet is a turn off for me. foreigner as a class is not a bad concept, but not every alien has to be pulled straight from the mythos

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    the whole point of Lovecraft shenanigans in Salem is to follow the theme of "fiction becoming reality"
    Last edited by Kamerad; October 17th, 2020 at 09:22 PM.

  5. #1605
    Well okay i guess for you veterans it is overdone, because youve seen them all. But i so far i havent seen that much Foreigners. If there were a compendium of foreigners id gladly read them them all and change my mind, because i have some entities in mind from lovecraft and one from general mythology i want to create servants on and maybe even cut 2 after i saw Royds sheets and thought they did what i thought of but better. The thing with all the Foreigner = Lovecraft thing is not many other famous stories from around his time and older have that much appeal and impact. Which "fiction becoming reality" universe could fit there for Foreigner instead? SCP-Foundation? Steven King? Tolkien? And the entity i have in mind and asked help with is actually much older than the Lovecraft mythos and he merely used it later in his story.

  6. #1606
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    don't take them from modern fictions pls lol

    The problem is not that it's overdone, but that it just feels lazy, uninspired.

    Even in canon Foreigner servants, the actual identity of the "Outer Gods" are not explicitly revealed as the specific ones from the mythos, only somewhat hinted to be. The problem with fan-made Foreigner servants is that the "Outer Gods" used as excuse to power-up for their servant are often explicit fictional mythos deities, often from latter post-HPL mythos, untied to irl mythology or religious lore, while in canon this is (probably) not the case.

    Also, Outer Gods in TM seems to be compared to True Daemons, which is probably the species Satan, Angra Mainyu, Iblis, Mara and the likes belongs to.

  7. #1607
    Seiba's lil' bitch WhiteFrenzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRey View Post
    SCP-Foundation? Steven King? Tolkien?
    Look, I'm no specialist but usually these go on the modern fiction thread, not this one. Lovecraftian mythos gets a pass now because it is Fate lore.

    Besides, to see more Foreigner servants, go to page 50ish and the 1st, where you'll find the indexes for Servants. There's A LOT of good ones. It's very fun.

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    .check out my Servant sheets if you are interested.

  8. #1608
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Morg van Destro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamerad View Post
    don't take them from modern fictions pls lol

    The problem is not that it's overdone, but that it just feels lazy, uninspired.

    Even in canon Foreigner servants, the actual identity of the "Outer Gods" are not explicitly revealed as the specific ones from the mythos, only somewhat hinted to be. The problem with fan-made Foreigner servants is that the "Outer Gods" used as excuse to power-up for their servant are often explicit fictional mythos deities, often from latter post-HPL mythos, untied to irl mythology or religious lore, while in canon this is (probably) not the case.

    Also, Outer Gods in TM seems to be compared to True Daemons, which is probably the species Satan, Angra Mainyu, Iblis, Mara and the likes belongs to.
    If you want to make a Foreigner connected to something different, go ahead. Others likely will as well. Doesn't mean you should dissuade people from using modern fiction. You may see it as lazy, but many people chose one of those gods and made great sheets with interesting characters on them (I don't include myself in this). Saying it's just lazy is rather insulting to them for putting any time in at all to create something they were likely doing for fun.

    That's how I see it at least.

  9. #1609
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    As a small correction, True Daemons is nothing more than a TM Wiki editor's idiotic mistake that he had decided was somehow an acceptable translation and worth spreading all over the wiki.

  10. #1610
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Morg van Destro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    As a small correction, True Daemons is nothing more than a TM Wiki editor's idiotic mistake that he had decided was somehow an acceptable translation and worth spreading all over the wiki.
    In what way? That they exist, or that they're similar to Outer Gods?

  11. #1611
    The King of Cinders Cursed by Fortuna's Avatar
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    One idea I suppose you could do if you wanted a foreigner servant (and didn't want to use Lovecraft (either because he's overdone or for ... other reasons)) is to maybe use beings from world's other than Gaia (types or alien species possessing people) or parallel worlds which aren't part of the "core tree" of Pan human history (something similar to a lost belt or which diverges so much from Gaia that beings within it are considered inhuman enough to be counted as aliens similar to true daemons).
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  12. #1612
    吸血鬼 Vampire BnEl15's Avatar
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    Another idea I have for non-Lovecraftian Foreigners include angels and certain other biblical creatures. You know, not the conventional-looking angels, but the biblically-accurate ones with numerous eyes, wings, and faces. I think they embody the concept of "otherworldly, incomprehensible horrors" well.
    Feel free to look at my Servant sheets here (Now 100% fixed and viewable)

  13. #1613
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamerad View Post
    don't take them from modern fictions pls lol

    The problem is not that it's overdone, but that it just feels lazy, uninspired.

    Even in canon Foreigner servants, the actual identity of the "Outer Gods" are not explicitly revealed as the specific ones from the mythos, only somewhat hinted to be. The problem with fan-made Foreigner servants is that the "Outer Gods" used as excuse to power-up for their servant are often explicit fictional mythos deities, often from latter post-HPL mythos, untied to irl mythology or religious lore, while in canon this is (probably) not the case.

    Also, Outer Gods in TM seems to be compared to True Daemons, which is probably the species Satan, Angra Mainyu, Iblis, Mara and the likes belongs to.
    Well guess i can rethink the persian part of my story idea then, because i think about angra the same.

    And regarding the mythos deities I agree as well. There are tons of "lovecraft" entities, but only a small part are actually from him and his close friends who helped to ascend his story to this level nowadays and i only use beings from his works and closest circle. I did not read the many other foreigner yet, but i have yet to see sheets with entities that are too modern. Kuranes was from Lovecraft, Quachil from Smith during his HPs life and Bnels Zo'Kalar is obscure but from lovecraft himself as well, to mention the last Outer beings sheets were made for.

    Again, I did not read all of them, but "excuse" sounds rather negative when it can also open up opportunities for vague figures of history to become more than just wraiths, thats how I like to see it.

    -----------------------
    Update: I went and checked and tried to compile the "few" Foreigner sheets I've seen via blogs and the CaS threads. My newcomer brain just didnt realize that the first site of those threats are not edited every 50 pages as well. Now it is obvious to me that it wouldnt be feasible. I vastly underestimated the activity here. Upon seeing how many more sheets there are for Foreigner I can understand more the position of Kamerad, because ithe Foreigner class is much more saturated than i expected and i can guess how many of them are actually decent.

    Still it wont change for me that i wanna do some more Foreigner sheets, but I start with the Entity and try to find a good host instead of a Servant and slap some gods unto it. So i would really appreciate if you, Kamerad, or other Foreigner critics could look at my sheets at this months contest and tell me if they are in the category you do not like/ that are "lazy" or at least can accept as okay. And no i am not begging for any votes here. I just wanna improve at what i am attempting as a hobby
    Last edited by DelRey; October 18th, 2020 at 10:57 AM.

  14. #1614
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morg van Destro View Post
    In what way? That they exist, or that they're similar to Outer Gods?
    Daemon is the wrong word to use as translation for it. It doesn't apply and involves someone getting really annoyed over untranslated terms to make up his own and spread it.

  15. #1615
    Quote Originally Posted by BnEl15 View Post
    Another idea I have for non-Lovecraftian Foreigners include angels and certain other biblical creatures. You know, not the conventional-looking angels, but the biblically-accurate ones with numerous eyes, wings, and faces. I think they embody the concept of "otherworldly, incomprehensible horrors" well.
    Yeah thats true, but i believe they are even more obscure than most of the HPL beings. It is long ago i looked into them, but i dont remember any concrete abilities or entities from cherubim, thrones and co.

  16. #1616
    I did a sheet for Ada Lovelace a while back where she was a Foreigner, with the foreign entity being basically Skynet. People apparently liked that, since it got second place in that contest. (Then I did a Foreigner Charles VI, which got no comment at all. Ups and downs.)

    In general though I feel like unless you've got a really strong concept that links a Foreigner to that which is Foreign (most don't, not even in canon) you're better off not doing a Foreigner at all.
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  17. #1617
    Quote Originally Posted by NMR-3 View Post
    I did a sheet for Ada Lovelace a while back where she was a Foreigner, with the foreign entity being basically Skynet. People apparently liked that, since it got second place in that contest. (Then I did a Foreigner Charles VI, which got no comment at all. Ups and downs.)

    In general though I feel like unless you've got a really strong concept that links a Foreigner to that which is Foreign (most don't, not even in canon) you're better off not doing a Foreigner at all.
    I just read your Charles sheet and can offer opinion if still wanted
    It seemed a bit raw. Like still in the Beta, there couldve been more text around it to give him more flavor., but with my meager experience i am not one to criticize you.
    When i read the NP i was like "ooooh i remember that anecdote, that was him? Foreigner makes so much more sense now. The Green Flame from "The Festival" is a good fit, thats so cool." (i think the name Tulzscha came much later from the RPG iirc) and i could perfectly imagine the scene of the dance. I see potential, but i think good Foreigner sheets are carried by the backstory, synergy and flair, the first thing was a bit lacking.

  18. #1618
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Morg van Destro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Daemon is the wrong word to use as translation for it. It doesn't apply and involves someone getting really annoyed over untranslated terms to make up his own and spread it.
    Does it matter by this point. If it's accepted that's the term for those beings by this point, there's not much you can change. But, for the sake of argument, what would be a better translation?

  19. #1619
    屍食鬼 Ghoul NittyGritty's Avatar
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    Do demons even canonically exist?
    Made ya look :P

  20. #1620
    You could say they are.....imaginary.

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