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Thread: Servant Discussion - Tamamo-No-Mae (Caster) 5*

  1. #141
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Wanting to farm fast is universal across games lol

  2. #142
    You're missing my point. I don't disagree when someone says they want to be done with the combat as soon as possible. I asking if that's how you feel about playing, why do you play? Why do you subject yourself to this experience you find unfun again and again?

  3. #143
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    That's the point, the gameplay of the game is seen as this thing which is to be done in as little time as possible. Why are you even playing the game at this point?
    Because practically all the game's fights that don't devolve into mindless farming are single time only, and, due to how the game is designed, the best mindless farming Servants happen to also be among the best hard content Servants too, but not vice versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  4. #144
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    Enough with the batteries, please. This game has turned into np spam simulator with a servant's worth judged by how well they can spam. I've seen some people defend this by saying they would rather get np from batteries or refund than with face cards but that's a massive problem in of itself like they don't even want to play the game.

    Anyways the problem isn't that Tamamo is too weak, it's that Castoria is too strong.
    Well no, I don't want to 'play this game', it's garbage. I want to get to the story locked behind the game.
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  5. #145
    祖 Ancestor OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    Enough with the batteries, please. This game has turned into np spam simulator with a servant's worth judged by how well they can spam. I've seen some people defend this by saying they would rather get np from batteries or refund than with face cards but that's a massive problem in of itself like they don't even want to play the game.

    Anyways the problem isn't that Tamamo is too weak, it's that Castoria is too strong.
    Nothing wrong with wanting Servants you like get some decent buffs.

    Besides, all the other SSR Casters have NP batteries in their skills, either on their release or through Strengthenings. It's still possible for Tamamo to also get one.
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  6. #146
    All other SSR casters having NP battery is the reason why I don't want Tamamo to get one. Everyone having a battery homogenizes kits making servants do more or less the same thing which is boring. Instead Tamamo should get buff removal resistance or something to be more unique.

  7. #147
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    That's really not true at all, none of the battery charging supports are at all alike. Skadi is completely offensive-buff oriented, Reines is more aligned with Skadi than others though she does offer one of the most unique defensive options, Waver is an all-rounder, while Merlin and Saber Caster are more defensive oriented (Merlin being more reactive than passive like Saber Caster). Tamamo in her current form is generally only a third wheel option, either by planning for a long fight or to be a buff bot before getting yeeted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  8. #148
    祖 Ancestor OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    All other SSR casters having NP battery is the reason why I don't want Tamamo to get one. Everyone having a battery homogenizes kits making servants do more or less the same thing which is boring. Instead Tamamo should get buff removal resistance or something to be more unique.
    I get what you're saying, but in a gacha game where you only get the units by chance, especially with rates like FGO's, you can't help but work with what you have. So Servants who can fill many roles by themselves are quite cherished. The more versatile a Servant is or will be, the better.

    And with Vitch's release, you get the gist of what Tamamo is potentially capable of if she gets her own NP battery; the supports can give their buffs again before they expires depending on their CDs. And in some teams where NP gauges constantly fill up, as the fight gets going, the less CDs are needed. Double Tamamo is gonna be one effective stall-Arts magikarp combo.
    My current support slots


    Record so far

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    All other SSR casters having NP battery is the reason why I don't want Tamamo to get one. Everyone having a battery homogenizes kits making servants do more or less the same thing which is boring. Instead Tamamo should get buff removal resistance or something to be more unique.
    I agree that battery's are over used. I use stall team often and Tamamo is my main choose but some CQ have bosses that get stronger over like in NAs last Gilfest Battle. I think she need something to get her NP up fast or a way to protect the team so the others can focus on attack and give her time to use her NP. The buff removal is a good suggestion I don't think it is enough. Without someone like Merlin with invisibility for fast NPs users or Mashs defense to survive crit hitters it can be had to get her going in time.

    Like OnesFleetingGlory pointed out Tamamo cool down is her big play and if she cold use it more then with the right timing her teams could do some amazing skill stacks.
    Last edited by Tamamo-no-Mae Goshujin-sama; September 14th, 2021 at 02:26 AM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    That's really not true at all, none of the battery charging supports are at all alike. Skadi is completely offensive-buff oriented, Reines is more aligned with Skadi than others though she does offer one of the most unique defensive options, Waver is an all-rounder, while Merlin and Saber Caster are more defensive oriented (Merlin being more reactive than passive like Saber Caster). Tamamo in her current form is generally only a third wheel option, either by planning for a long fight or to be a buff bot before getting yeeted.
    Heavily disagree. The meta is all about looping, and since we established earlier about how people want to get fights over with as soon as possible, the looping meta is all most people care about. Every time a new unit is released, the first question that's asked is "Can they L O O P??". That's the one metric that defines wither they are shit or good and that's terrible.

    Let's start with the 3 main loop enablers: Skadi, Castoria, and Vitch. Their primary role is to boost a point man's np to a great height and give charge and/or refund to use their np three times in a row no pesky face cards required. For the units that can loop, buster, arts, and quick nps have so little identity now. The biggest difference is power level. Skadi has most of her possible targets gimped while Castoria doesn't have her targets gimped, is better at loop enabling, and has powerful defensive options on top of that because of course they were going to make Takeuchi's waifu overpowered.

    Let's then go to the two charge givers: Waver and Reines. They're side grades but people rarely care about what makes them side grades and just use their charges. It goes back to to the loop obsession I was talking about. When was the last time you used Waver np drain to stop an enemy from nping? When was the last ten times you used Waver to charge a damage dealer's np? When was the last time you used Reines's class ignore to protect your berserkers? When was the last ten times you used Reines to charge a damage dealer's np?

    The most unique one is Merlin who's 20% team wide charge is only one small part of his overloaded kit. He's not a loop enabler and because of that I've seen so many fucking people who want him to get buffed .

    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    I get what you're saying, but in a gacha game where you only get the units by chance, especially with rates like FGO's, you can't help but work with what you have. So Servants who can fill many roles by themselves are quite cherished. The more versatile a Servant is or will be, the better.

    And with Vitch's release, you get the gist of what Tamamo is potentially capable of if she gets her own NP battery; the supports can give their buffs again before they expires depending on their CDs. And in some teams where NP gauges constantly fill up, as the fight gets going, the less CDs are needed. Double Tamamo is gonna be one effective stall-Arts magikarp combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamamo-no-Mae Goshujin-sama View Post
    I agree that battery's are over used. I use stall team often and Tamamo is my main choose but some CQ have bosses that get stronger over like in NAs last Gilfest Battle. I think she need something to get her NP up fast or a way to protect the team so the others can focus on attack and give her time to use her NP. The buff removal is a good suggestion I don't think it is enough. Without someone like Merlin with invisibility for fast NPs users or Mashs defense to survive crit hitters it can be had to get her going in time.

    Like OnesFleetingGlory pointed out Tamamo cool down is her big play and if she cold use it more then with the right timing her teams could do some amazing skill stacks.
    Tamamo is still as powerful as ever. She cleared content in the past fine and thus presumably can clear content fine now. There are only two reasonable reasons why you would want Tamamo buffed.

    1. She can't clear content as fast as her competition(ie Castoria)
    Giving Tamamo a battery to fix this, depending on its size, would make Tamamo either a lesser Castoria, a copy of Castoria, or powercreep Castoria.

    2. Content is getting harder
    Assuming this is true, ask yourself why would this be happening? It's because of powercreep. Units are getting stronger and thus they make content harder. And units get stronger because the developers keep giving them straight up more value like batteries rather than make them more unique.

    If you don't care about speed and content is not getting harder, then what's the need? You can still enjoy playing her like you've always done.

  11. #151
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Give Tamamo self 100% NP Charge on Transformation

  12. #152
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    Heavily disagree. The meta is all about looping, and since we established earlier about how people want to get fights over with as soon as possible, the looping meta is all most people care about. Every time a new unit is released, the first question that's asked is "Can they L O O P??". That's the one metric that defines wither they are shit or good and that's terrible.
    The "meta" being about looping has literally nothing to do with how each main support character has well-defined differences in their kits, but continue moving goalposts.

    Let's start with the 3 main loop enablers: Skadi, Castoria, and Vitch. Their primary role is to boost a point man's np to a great height and give charge and/or refund to use their np three times in a row no pesky face cards required. For the units that can loop, buster, arts, and quick nps have so little identity now. The biggest difference is power level. Skadi has most of her possible targets gimped while Castoria doesn't have her targets gimped, is better at loop enabling, and has powerful defensive options on top of that because of course they were going to make Takeuchi's waifu overpowered.

    Let's then go to the two charge givers: Waver and Reines. They're side grades but people rarely care about what makes them side grades and just use their charges. It goes back to to the loop obsession I was talking about. When was the last time you used Waver np drain to stop an enemy from nping? When was the last ten times you used Waver to charge a damage dealer's np? When was the last time you used Reines's class ignore to protect your berserkers? When was the last ten times you used Reines to charge a damage dealer's np?

    The most unique one is Merlin who's 20% team wide charge is only one small part of his overloaded kit. He's not a loop enabler and because of that I've seen so many fucking people who want him to get buffed .
    This can all be summed up to being annoyed at the game's limitations in how fights can be made, cause the alternatives are Grail Front-like stuff that limits who you can bring and/or being forced to use XYZ story support but nothing of your own. It's a fair complaint, but the main support characters aren't at fault here.

    Tamamo is still as powerful as ever. She cleared content in the past fine and thus presumably can clear content fine now. There are only two reasonable reasons why you would want Tamamo buffed.

    1. She can't clear content as fast as her competition(ie Castoria)
    Giving Tamamo a battery to fix this, depending on its size, would make Tamamo either a lesser Castoria, a copy of Castoria, or powercreep Castoria.

    2. Content is getting harder
    Assuming this is true, ask yourself why would this be happening? It's because of powercreep. Units are getting stronger and thus they make content harder. And units get stronger because the developers keep giving them straight up more value like batteries rather than make them more unique.

    If you don't care about speed and content is not getting harder, then what's the need? You can still enjoy playing her like you've always done.
    I want her to get Aphotic Cave or some of the stuff teased in Fox Tail, plain and simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    The "meta" being about looping has literally nothing to do with how each main support character has well-defined differences in their kits, but continue moving goalposts.

    This can all be summed up to being annoyed at the game's limitations in how fights can be made, cause the alternatives are Grail Front-like stuff that limits who you can bring and/or being forced to use XYZ story support but nothing of your own. It's a fair complaint, but the main support characters aren't at fault here.
    Looping is an extremely linear way to play the game so the main support characters revolving around looping means it has everything to do with why they lack in well defined differences.

    It's not due to the game's limitations because they didn't have to make the game this way. Noble Phantasms, being a servant's ultimate move could of been something that was hard to build up. They didn't have to make a servant do their NP three times in a row. If the multiple NPs didn't obliterate everything, then things that aren't charging and buffing NP could actually matter. They could remember face cards exist. The reason it's like this is because they went over board on the battery and refund.


    I want her to get Aphotic Cave or some of the stuff teased in Fox Tail, plain and simple.
    So give her something that isn't a battery? That's what I've been arguing.
    Last edited by Synaptic Star; September 15th, 2021 at 12:50 AM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    Tamamo is still as powerful as ever. She cleared content in the past fine and thus presumably can clear content fine now. There are only two reasonable reasons why you would want Tamamo buffed.

    1. She can't clear content as fast as her competition(ie Castoria)
    Giving Tamamo a battery to fix this, depending on its size, would make Tamamo either a lesser Castoria, a copy of Castoria, or powercreep Castoria.

    2. Content is getting harder
    Assuming this is true, ask yourself why would this be happening? It's because of powercreep. Units are getting stronger and thus they make content harder. And units get stronger because the developers keep giving them straight up more value like batteries rather than make them more unique.

    If you don't care about speed and content is not getting harder, then what's the need? You can still enjoy playing her like you've always done.
    I agree she is still powerful and I use her often (she is just about to reach bond 11) but because of Castoria I know the content will be harder. I don't want Tamamo to surpass Castoria (I don't want their to be any new or old stronger). I just would like her to get something to keep up and be strong in her own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Give Tamamo self 100% NP Charge on Transformation
    As Deathhappens pointed out this would be to much. If they did this then a double Tamamo both with max Kaleidoscope could on their third turn use Fox Bride and Cures to have have staked their skills twice, plus if the other Servent has a 5 cool down skill that last 3 turns, on one attack and unlike Koyanskaya they wound not take long to do it again making a charge that high dangerous to the game mechanics.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamamo-no-Mae Goshujin-sama View Post
    I agree she is still powerful and I use her often (she is just about to reach bond 11) but because of Castoria I know the content will be harder. I don't want Tamamo to surpass Castoria (I don't want their to be any new or old stronger). I just would like her to get something to keep up and be strong in her own way.
    Sure, as long as it's not a battery. Since you're a Tamamo fan, how would you imagine Aphotic Cave would look like gameplaywise?

    As Deathhappens pointed out this would be to much. If they did this then a double Tamamo both with max Kaleidoscope could on their third turn use Fox Bride and Cures to have have staked their skills twice, plus if the other Servent has a 5 cool down skill that last 3 turns, on one attack and unlike Koyanskaya they wound not take long to do it again making a charge that high dangerous to the game mechanics.
    Zork Knight was joking. Probably.

  16. #156
    For Aphotic Cave I think it should look similar to Fox Tails at least with her first two ascensions with her making a cute pose (like a piece sign in front of her head or make her fingers in to the shape of a fox) with her mirror flying in the air above the center of the party to then have it turn to light and a see through dome comes from it (looking kinda like a force field) to surround the team. Her third ascension maybe she would simply spin the wheat she hold in a circle with her mirror going into the grown. Then have the ground glow and the dome come from the ground. Since it is a skill I think that the animation would be simple and quick.

  17. #157
    I meant what effects would it have in the gameplay.

  18. #158
    Oh I see. Well I would still like Tamamo to be the first with team defense that can't be pieced or removed with a self one turn NP charger that gives extra charge when attacked (like in extra) with maybe a self/team debuff removal or a self one hit invincibility.

  19. #159
    祖 Ancestor OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    I imagine it as getting more NP gauge as your team is attacked like Chacha, but they're protected from damage.
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  20. #160
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaptic Star View Post
    Looping is an extremely linear way to play the game so the main support characters revolving around looping means it has everything to do with why they lack in well defined differences.
    You can still play the game in a non-looping manner, and in that case, differences in how they function arise. What part of this are you willfully choosing not to understand? It doesn't matter that most people are going to gravitate to looping setups for sake of ease when the Servants needed to pull that off have well defined differences despite the overlap that looping is possible.

    In such a situation, I still wouldn't use Tamamo much anymore because Himiko enables a can't die setup with ridiculous damage potential that only loses to buff removal.

    It's not due to the game's limitations because they didn't have to make the game this way. Noble Phantasms, being a servant's ultimate move could of been something that was hard to build up. They didn't have to make a servant do their NP three times in a row. If the multiple NPs didn't obliterate everything, then things that aren't charging and buffing NP could actually matter. They could remember face cards exist. The reason it's like this is because they went over board on the battery and refund.
    Those examples you use are things they'd have to actively change the game's code to handle for the most part. At best, they could just steal the story Percius LB6 deal that prevents him from using his NP multiple times, but otherwise that requires changing game code, and any time they change game code you can expect multiple months of dead weeks to counter.

    So give her something that isn't a battery? That's what I've been arguing.
    A battery would actually be fitting because of what it allowed during Extra, but I wouldn't mind additional features to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

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