Mahou Senki: Lyrical Days (FSN x Nanoha Crossover)

[Heroslayer]

The thing about Signum teaching Archery. Where would it come from?

I mean, Shirou is not going to show any interest or talent towards Archery at all. Swordsmanship, yes, he'll definitely show interest and talent for it, and you add his Tracing ability then it's rather obvious that swordsmanship should be his focus.

I think it would be odd to just out of the blue take your swordsmanship student and shove a bow into his hands. Espeically with what Inugami saying with how odd it is for them to have a bow at all. Then again Signum is from way, way back, where something like that maybe more normal.

Also, Shirou isn't getting a Barrier Jacket. I thought about it, and even thought about doing it the way it was done in Nanoha 1/2 but then ditched it in favor of just having Shirou store armor. Mainly because I trashed the idea of teaching Shirou Mid-childa based spells intermixed with his own Tracing.

Because that would have just been stupid.

[Inugami]

That's true although that doesn't rule out a custom made device that stores and casts the barrier jacket spell on its own like Raising Heart does. (I'm only mentioning the possibility of it existing, nothing more)

No, it doesn't, but the Arthra isn't going to have the materials for anyone to make Shirou a custom Intelligent Device. If they did, it would be military property; could they justify giving it to a civilian who can't even properly use their style of magic, if he can use it at all?


And the fact of the matter is, unless Shirou proves himself to be as indispensible to handling the Jewel Seeds as heavy-weights like Nanoha and Yuuno and Chrono, the TSAB is going to send him home with a pat on the head, a stern warning to stay out of the way, and a promise to check in with him later about learning more about Earth's mages and asking if he wants to become a cadet.

They are NOT going to help him make himself power enough to help with this case. Nanoha was an exception because she was already armed with private property, and freakishly capable besides.

[Heroslayer]

Ahahaha... I really should share this next plot point so that people can actively debate what is going on. Though my constant reminder of what Shirou's device is going to be like should have gotten athrough to a ​few people... right?

[nitewind]

Yes it has hero. We're just debating as debators do. And inugami I didn't say anything about WHEN this custom device might be built or given to Shirou, ignoring all the other intricacies involved, just that it might be POSSIBLE to build one. (And that's not even going in to what heroslayer was saying, he gets final call after all.)

[Heroslayer]

In all honestly, I like the debating. It makes me think about different angles in the Nanoha verse and the Naruverse which keeps my mind on them. This makes sure my mind stays interested in Lyrical Days which makes sure the chapter is written.

Seeing the chapter written makes me happy and inspires more debate (hopefully) which leads to a happy cycle.

And it could be possible. Though it seems to be a roundabout way of giving super tech to someone that has almost no chance of being able to use it. It would probably require experimentation of a Magus (Shirou) which means it would have to be after Shirou catches their attention (which means either him being mindblowingly powerful like Nanoha or being mindblowingly dangerous to the city all around him because he can't control his powers) or if he somehow joined the TSAB.

[Muramasa]

The thing about Signum teaching Archery. Where would it come from?

From making sure Shirou isn't overly specialized in just one skill and giving him some measure of versatility. Signum herself specializes in swordsmanship but that's not all she has. Becoming overly specialized in one skill leaves you with too many weaknesses and if Shirou thinks he can get by with just short range swordsmanship then he's going to get owned A LOT.

I mean, Shirou is not going to show any interest or talent towards Archery at all.

Shirou is EXTREMELY talented in Archery. Canon.

Swordsmanship, yes, he'll definitely show interest and talent for it, and you add his Tracing ability then it's rather obvious that swordsmanship should be his focus.

'A' focus, yes. The downside of being overly specialized I already went over.

Also, Shirou isn't getting a Barrier Jacket. I thought about it, and even thought about doing it the way it was done in Nanoha 1/2 but then ditched it in favor of just having Shirou store armor.

Could you go into further detail with this and how it's implemented? Is Shirou projecting armor? Or will the TSAB provide him with a specialized outfit? The only other question I would have is 'why Armor?' when a Barrier Jacket is more easily accessible?

Mainly because I trashed the idea of teaching Shirou Mid-childa based spells intermixed with his own Tracing.

Because that would have just been stupid.

?

Why is it stupid?

[Inugami]

For Shirou to use Midchildan (or Belkan) magic at all, he would need a Linker Core, or those systems would have to use prana instead of mana. Heroslayer has not yet confirmed what he's chosen to do in regards to either aspect.

But suppose that Shirou COULD be use either style of magic, and that Yuuno or someone else tried teaching him. What would be his talents? It is possible he might actually have NO talent for any area of their magical styles, thus forcing him to stick with magecraft and his Reality Marble.


Regarding talents and Signum, it's possible that Signum has no talent at all for shooting magic. That would explain why Laevantein has an archery form, as producing a physical arrow and mechanically firing it from a physical bow allows her to work around her lack of skill with forming or hanlding magical projectiles. By treating the physical arrow as a blade, she can even focus her magic into it, managing to cheat her way into a bombardment type spell as well, despite a lack of talent and the fact that Belkan Style is supposed to largely eschew bombardment magic.

Vita, on the other hand, clearly possesses some talent for shooting magic, given her Swallow Flier spell. Comet Flier might count as a bombardment spell, too.

But then, I'm pretty sure that Vita was a freakishly talented little girl, like Nanoha, before she was transformed into a magical construct to guard the corrupted Book of Darkness.

[VelspertheCat]

Nanohaverse has hundreds of styles of magic too in it, at least circa Vivid. The Mid/Belka/Neo-Belka style isn't the only one. Heck, first season Nanoha even showed golem (real robot) control magic by Precia. Vivid and StrikerS has summoning and magical melee fighting styles too. Shirou could learn to project Sword out and cover his body with metal or something.

[Heroslayer]

We stated the Barrier Jacket argument a few posts earlier. It's a spell not a physical object and it's not Projection. While that could technically work, Shirou's ability to Project defense objects is Canonly crap compared to swords. And it's going to be a storage spell. I assume that the way that Fate summons the gloves holding Bardiche's gem and the awesome cape she has in the first season is with some sort of pocket spell. I think something like that would be simple to have pre armed into a Device.

It's possible to have Signum teach Shirou Archery, but in all honestly, it's not something I would think they would go into. She would state something about how he has no mid or long range techniques (sword spamming being short range) but would she instantly say maybe you should try Archery. I would think the logical thought would be to ask Kiritsugu about long range Magecraft and when finding that a bust try several different methods. Maybe then he'll get into Archery, but it's not as prominent as Canon Shirou's ability with it.

You have to remember that Canon Shirou's main skill before the Holy Grail War (other than cooking and the BAR) is Archery. MS Shirou has skill with Swords and learns of his Tracing before he learns Archery and even then, it's not like he's going to instantly think of the idea of using Broken Phantasms. Heck, part of me wonders where Archer even got the idea for using swords as arrows or as Broken Phantasms.

[Muramasa]

But suppose that Shirou COULD be use either style of magic, and that Yuuno or someone else tried teaching him. What would be his talents? It is possible he might actually have NO talent for any area of their magical styles, thus forcing him to stick with magecraft and his Reality Marble.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mid-childan magic just a matter of learning the calculations and providing magical energy to unleash a spell? In that case, the only real talent Shirou needs is half decent memory, which is rendered moot if he has a device on hand. In that case Shirou only needs to provide the power.

Edit:

We stated the Barrier Jacket argument a few posts earlier. It's a spell not a physical object and it's not Projection. While that could technically work, Shirou's ability to Project defense objects is Canonly crap compared to swords. And it's going to be a storage spell. I assume that the way that Fate summons the gloves holding Bardiche's gem and the awesome cape she has in the first season is with some sort of pocket spell. I think something like that would be simple to have pre armed into a Device.

Ah, Magical Armor he can summon at will. Gotcha.

It's possible to have Signum teach Shirou Archery, but in all honestly, it's not something I would think they would go into. She would state something about how he has no mid or long range techniques (sword spamming being short range) but would she instantly say maybe you should try Archery. I would think the logical thought would be to ask Kiritsugu about long range Magecraft and when finding that a bust try several different methods. Maybe then he'll get into Archery, but it's not as prominent as Canon Shirou's ability with it.

Chances are Kiritsugu is dead by the time Shirou's range issues would be addressed, so yeah it's a bust. However If Signum herself has a solution to Shirou's range issues, there's no reason for her not to make an attempt to rectify it herself.

You have to remember that Canon Shirou's main skill before the Holy Grail War (other than cooking and the BAR) is Archery. MS Shirou has skill with Swords and learns of his Tracing before he learns Archery and even then, it's not like he's going to instantly think of the idea of using Broken Phantasms.

Weather Tracing or Archery came first is mostly irrelevant. The process of how Shirou got good at archery is the same. As for BP's (And this isn't canon or anything like that) but I'm pretty sure Archer discovered BP's by complete accident. It probably hurt like hell too.

Heck, part of me wonders where Archer even got the idea for using swords as arrows or as Broken Phantasms.

Possibly because walking around town with a bow and quiver full of arrows on hand is bound to bring about some awkward questions I think. So he may have needed alternatives.

[Heroslayer]

More than half decent memory. If the A's manga is Canon, Nanoha is doing college level math at age nine. Or was it high school math at age nine. Well ridiculous stuff.

Not to mention. There the whole fact that talent does matter. The reason that Nanoha is so good at bombardment or that Yuuno can hold off Vita while healing Nanoha and decoding a barrier is a fact of Talent. I could see Shirou having some sort of talent for some close range style (balken or whatever) but it would be outlandish and he would have to find it. Not randomly come across it for no reason. Not to mention, where the heck would he get a Device. Anyways, Shirou isn't getting Balken magic, probably. I don't really have any plans for Strikers and the HGW is on the back burner for a while. I'm just trying to get Lyrical Days done.

And the whole he needs more power thing. I had Raising Heart rate him at inconclusive, but tentatively D-. Which means he has magic, but it's barely there.

[Megaolix]

It's possible to have Signum teach Shirou Archery, but in all honestly, it's not something I would think they would go into. She would state something about how he has no mid or long range techniques (sword spamming being short range) but would she instantly say maybe you should try Archery. I would think the logical thought would be to ask Kiritsugu about long range Magecraft and when finding that a bust try several different methods. Maybe then he'll get into Archery, but it's not as prominent as Canon Shirou's ability with it.

There's a good reason for Shirou to learn archery I think: Unless he can fly, he'll be useless for air battles. And we know how Shirou feels about being useless. Hell, even if he can fly, will it be at the speed needed to keep up?

If anything, Shirou need to pick a way to attack at range when he realize there will be times he has no time to run to the problem and slash it.

[Inugami]

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mid-childan magic just a matter of learning the calculations and providing magical energy to unleash a spell? In that case, the only real talent Shirou needs is half decent memory, which is rendered moot if he has a device on hand. In that case Shirou only needs to provide the power.

And yet, Yuuno can't use Raising Heart or cast shooting/bombardment magic, whereas Nanoha has a particular talent for both, and Fate has a talent for flight speed but less talent at defensive spells.

It's not JUST math.

I assume that the way that Fate summons the gloves holding Bardiche's gem and the awesome cape she has in the first season is with some sort of pocket spell. I think something like that would be simple to have pre armed into a Device.

No, those are elements of her Barrier Jacket spell, so she's weaving them out of nothing but her magical energy.

Bardiche's standby form was sitting on a desk, and she picked it up, I do believe. She didn't summon it from no where, and no one else has displayed such an ability either.

[Heroslayer]

Really, I thought that in episode 6 she is empty handed and then summons her gloves. Bardiche is sitting on the glove holder. I could be wrong and she's holding it the entire time, but it looks like she's just summoning from somewhere.

[Pata Hikari]

If you say Fate can summon Bardiche then she can in this fic.

[In-N-Out Double-Double & Animal Fries]

I always figured that since the devices in mini form were so small anyways, they could be carried around anywhere, eliminating any sort of need for summoning them

and there's time-space magic anyways so I don't see why they can't drag their device from somewhere else

[Ace]

Really, I thought that in episode 6 she is empty handed and then summons her gloves. Bardiche is sitting on the glove holder. I could be wrong and she's holding it the entire time, but it looks like she's just summoning from somewhere.

Yeah you're right. When Fate is not holding Bardiche, it is sitting in the glove holder.

[Heroslayer]

Anyways. I don't think a storage spell is too farfetched, so yeah, I'm sticking with that.

[Muramasa]

HeroSlayer, I left some edits at the bottom of page 49 you might want to look at. That, or I can repost them. Your choice.


@Inugami

I never understood exactly 'why' Yuuno couldn't use Raising Heart properly. Even if he doesn't have Nanoha's reserves, he had enough to at least use the basic combat spells Raising Heart has. It's not unreasonable to deduce that without a device, he just doesn't know the spells and quite frankly he isn't in an active position where he absolutely needs to learn combat magic. I'm not saying talent is completely irrelevant for mid-childan based magic. But I've seen nothing that says it's absolutely crucial in comparison to Nasuverse magecraft. The fact that Mid-Childan magic is as wide spread as it is would attest to it's accessibility.

[Heroslayer]

Well that's the thing. Shirou's one good skill is Tracing. Or the actualization of his Reality Marble. He has a minor talent in Reinforcement but considering that's the basic of basic, he's just normal with it. He can Project Arrows (or Trace) since he does that in Fate, so where did he think of learning Alteration or Shape Manipulation of something as complicated as a Noble Phantasm?

Heck, how did he learn?

Anyways, if Shirou does learn Archery (and he'll most likely pick it up, either naturally or just something he 'steals' from Archer during the HGW) it'll probably stick to normal arrows at first.

And I dunno. The fact that Yuuno couldn't use Raising Heart has been a question that plagues the fans.