Well. Time to start avoiding this thread I guess.
Well. Time to start avoiding this thread I guess.
Originally Posted by Muramasa
The TSAB intervened in a situation caused by one of their own citizens, first because it was one of their transports that was destroyed near earth, and then because the cause behind the incident was Precia Testarossa. Nanoha and Shirou weren't suspects, but volonteers. Only Fate Testerossa was a suspect, and was eventually deemed an accomplice with reduced sentence due to age and circumstances.
In Canon Lindy did try to recruit Nanoha, but the girl rejected their offer. After that they left her alone because the TSAB doesn't interfere with outsiders at that point.
In the Case of Shirou there is the fact that he now possesses the jewel seed, but what would you have the TSAB do? Research him? taking him into custody means tearing him from his ordinary life of a 9-year old boy going to school. People notice when children do not show up anymore. Even if they managed to get him to cooperate, you can't even be sure that they can completely seal the jewel seed. In the worst case scenario the only thing they can do is lock him up so that nothing happens.
Emiya Shirou's situation is a political nightmare for the TSAB.
Last edited by fraggle; November 4th, 2012 at 03:14 PM.
Illya is best servant
Fraggle, Shirou is a timebomb that can potentially kill a countless amount of lives. Shirou would understand that. Kiritsugu would understand that. The fact that the TSAB isn't doing everything they can to prevent that is a serious issue. One that by far exceeds Shirou's normal livelihood.In the Case of Shirou there is the fact that he now possesses the jewel seed, but what would you have the TSAB do? Research him? taking him into custody means tearing him from his ordinary life of a 9-year old boy going to school. People notice when children do not show up anymore. Even if they managed to get him to cooperate, you can't even be sure that they can completely seal the jewel seed. In the worst case scenario the only thing they can do is lock him up so that nothing happens.
Emiya Shirou's situation is a political nightmare for the TSAB.
This is the TSAB. They recruit S class Lost Logia mere months after they almost blew up an entire planet. More to the point, they are trying to find out a way to control/suppress it.
But imprisoning a child who has a device inside him that is triggered by his subconcious desires is not going to help matters. They have 'sealed' it. He's most likely under observation, and if things do go to shit, there is an AA rank combat mage within a block of his house.
There ain't a lot more that they can do at this point.
It would potentially prevent the deaths of countless lives. Yes, I think it would help matters.But imprisoning a child who has a device inside him that is triggered by his subconcious desires is not going to help matters.
Metaphorically, they only shut the front door. There's a back door, plenty of windows and a chimney. And because it's a jewel seed, completely knocking the house down is not an entirely out there scenario. The TSAB haven't sealed anything.They have 'sealed' it. He's most likely under observation, and if things do go to shit, there is an AA rank combat mage within a block of his house.
A civilian collaborator who isn't supposed to be doing that anyway.and if things do go to shit, there is an AA rank combat mage within a block of his house.
Except for the fact that holding him against his will is only going to make the thing more likely to go off...
Honestly though, you seem to be thinking that the TSAB are a lot more willing to go with the 'sacrifice for the greater good' then they are shown to be- If they were, then Gil Graham wouldn't have had to be all secretive about the BoD incident, because the TSAB would have just been like "you want to imprison a 9 year old girl in pseudo-space? Sure!"
It's just not how they operate. If it was, Force would be over by now, because they would have stopped wasting time, and just Arc-En-Ciel'd the fuck out of the Hucks by now (then again, the villain sue squad would probably just survive anyway)
@Muramasa. Why do you think the Jewel seed is a Nuclear Bomb ticking inside Shirou's body? Look closely at all the jewel seed incidents and remember what the TSAB already knows: A jewel seed is triggered by a wish or a desire, and so far it seems to amplify Shirou's innate magic.The reason the Jewel seeds are dangerous is that when reacting in a group they can amplify magic or a desire to the point that they can burn a hole in reality. A single jewel seed can do damage, but so far the worst case scenario of a completely rampaging jewel seed was... the morning wood incident.
Yes, people died that day, but that jewel seed was rampaging without any limiter and no control.
Inside Shirou the jewel seed is limited to the output of it's container. When it goes overdrive it cannot do anything after Shirou is burned to a crisp, and thats only if he actively tries to do so. And as the latest chapter showed us, they can already shut it down in such an event.
Yes, Shirou is at risk, but its not like the jewel seed will detonate itself inside his body or something. After all, even if Emiya Shirou lacks the drive to live, he still has the drive to save others.
You know, if we follow Muramasa's line of thought the TSAB will Arc'n'Ciel Earth the moment they learn of True ancestors, ORT or ATLAS. Because seriously: the risk of having Earth around while we have the stuff to kill our world 10 times over is just idiotic.
Last edited by fraggle; November 4th, 2012 at 04:33 PM.
Illya is best servant
Can Arc-en-Ciel destroy a planet? I'm not entirely sure of what its output is shown to be, beyond 'large'.
I write stuff, though unfortunately nothing Nasuverse (yet).
Accorning to the specs it isa "magic cannon" (魔導砲 madōhō) capable of destroying everything withing a 100 km radius of the target point by distorting the time-space of that region.
Do you have any idea what would happen to earth if you were to puncture one or more holes in the upper crust with something like that? the upper crust of Earth itself has a thickness of around 2 km, after which you expose the upper mantle...
Illya is best servant
Upper mantle is a chaotic layer with more steam in it than the ocean got water, that would pretty much throw the ecosystem out of whack after you know the massive tectonic shifts stop causing earthquakes and tidal waves and such and if they hit the rain forest, bam we're dead there goes most of the oxygen producing trees in the world.
Fraggle, I want you to rewatch episodes 7 and 8 of MGLN. That is not the full capacity of a Jewel Seed.
Inside Shirou the jewel seed is limited to the output of it's container. When it goes overdrive it cannot do anything after Shirou is burned to a crisp, and thats only if he actively tries to do so. And as the latest chapter showed us, they can already shut it down in such an event.
Quite frankly, this shouldn't have worked. It took Fate the entirety of her magic capacity and a clear desire for the Jewel Seed to stop before it calmed down.
Last edited by Muramasa; November 4th, 2012 at 05:03 PM.
True, but it is a good example of a single jewel seed going haywire without any control. Remember that only When Precia actively used the jewel seeds in her spell that they actually threatened to blow up reality.
You know, this entire debate boils down to this: Is the passive Jewel Seed inside Shirou as that much of a threat for humanity?
You say yes, the thing is in nature so unstable that it can destroy the world at any notice.
I say no, the thing, while rather fragile, is still properly designed that when bonded to something it only acts on the input it is given. Remember that Yuuno did not hunt the jewel seeds just because they could activate, but because they can do horrible damage in the wrong hands.
Illya is best servant
Pretty much. I am debating this based on the Jewel Seed being that unstable. That was the agreed fan argument as to why the Jewel Seed couldn't be extracted from Shirou in the first place.
From where I sit, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the Jewel Seed is stable enough that it could have been extracted, or it isn't stable enough and Shirou needs to be isolated.
Oh, now I see where this went wrong. You made a misconception: It is never said never said that the JS in Shirou is to unstable to extract. As Hero put it, I can't find the quote right now, the Jewel seed has somehow metaphysically anchored itself onto Avalon. The problem with the extraction isn't that it's ustabl;e, it's simply refusing to let go. Avalon itself is dispersed trough Shirou's body, and the TSAB can't figure out how the Jewel seed is binding itself to his body. When they try the regular extraction method the jewelseed goes from standbye to low power, similar to an regulate extraction.
Only problem is that this power is also bleeding into Avalon, which destabilizes the entire process. Thus instead of overpowering the jewel-seed's connection with Shirou they are only aggravating it. The excess of power is dumped into Shirou's body which becomes damaged as the result.
The jewel seed is literally stuck.
Does this clear things up?
Illya is best servant
There was a big argument that involved Kiritsugu being told about the extraction attempts, which consequentially led to him revealing Avalons nature to the TSAB. One thing leads to another, the TSAB now knows what the Jewel Seed is anchored to. Very early 2011 word of god had it that if the TSAB knew where to look, the Jewel Seed could be extracted. The rest is history I don't feel like pulling up.
I cannot remember that, but even if they know what Avalon is, can they get it out? Remember, it's not like it can be transported out of his body, it has to be reconstructed while extracting... and I don't think Kiritsugu is capable of that at this point.
Illya is best servant
As Fraggle stated:
The jewel seed is stable, but is incapable of being extracted due to it being connected to Avalon in the way it is and Avalon being connected to Shirou as it is.
From my perspective this means that they would first need to discover Avalon inside Shirou's body, what it is, what it does, and how to get it out before the Seed can be removed. Otherwise the Seed is innert.
Shirou I would believe as willingly supressing it to keep it from going out of control, while at the same time the sealing device on his wrist, while possibly broke right now, is adding its own strengths to the matter. It was also foreshadowed in the story that the TSAB isn't simply going to let the problem lie and will possibly send in a team to create a stronger sealing device to replace his current one. Hero said he was going to be making two 'Sound Stages' for this thus leaving a lot of room open for interpretation.
As for the Sound Stages them selves, I'm interested in what will be happening in them. I already stated what I believe is going to be one of them: a TSAB sqaud being sent out to build Shirou a new sealing device. But the other one I can't really guess at for the moment and am curious as to everyone else's thoughts on the matter.
EDIT: partially ninja'd.
Last edited by crystalwatcher; November 4th, 2012 at 05:52 PM.
End of an Empire
Quote
Obviously we need a steamy Ferret-Yuuno and Takamachi Miyuki..... bathing scene :P
Washing the ferret... so thats what they call it now?
Illya is best servant
Reforming Avalon would go bad, so says Word of God. I was thinking severing the links individually or finding a means to weaken the anchor through suppression methods. The first method might really be too difficult but the second method I think holds promise. Well, that goes into an argument of what the TSAB is and isn't capable of assuming Shirou does go with them and that's a wash. It's easier to think the Jewel Seed really is that unstable.
*blink blink*
...
*Grin*
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