Mahou Senki: Lyrical Days (FSN x Nanoha Crossover)

[lethum]

The whole point of a sealing device is to prevent that kind of **** from happening. You also make it sound like a jewel seed will go off at the slightest touch and that's a ridiculous level of flanderization. Going by this logic Nanoha and Fate and the whole freaking universe should clear out as the slightest stimulation would set the damn things to blow.

Yes the TSAB doesn't completely understand Jewel Seeds. That's why there's a sealing device to cut all available outlets to react to it. By cutting off the connection to Avalon they can seal it the same way Nanoha and Fate have been doing it. And as it turns out Raising Heart and Bardiche are pretty good at sealing jewel seeds.

You don't seem to be getting my point.

The TSAB can't get the JS out of Shirou. Because of the interference by this mysterious artifact (Avalon), they can't properly seal the JS, and because they can't properly seal it, the interference persists. Every time the Jewel Seed has acted up, it has been because of Reality Marble shenanigans that make it act up and that Shirou only survives (probably) because he has Avalon.

If Avalon tries to come out, then the Jewel Seed will react just the same as when people try to take out the JS. Sealing Avalon for long enough isn't impossible, probably. Doing it with Mid Childan magic? In any reasonable amount of time? Not so much. Assuming they succeed in taking out Avalon? They still have to deal with UBW. And that RM is another OCP problem they can't really deal with.

The driving point during the first season of team Yuuno and whoever was on his side was Sealing the Jewel Seeds before they spontaneously activated and caused a major disaster (think dimensional quake, if a JS chain activation happened, or if one JS received sufficient stimuli). The Jewel Seed in Shirou won't act up unless Shirou's RM stays out of the game, but it has woven itself so tightly to Shirou that any attempt to remove it will cause unworkable to enter the game.

The TSAB being good enough to safely seal the Jewel Seeds in certain situation don't mean that they should be able to do that in other situations, even if you think they should, be it for the sake of the plot or for internal consistency. With the TSAB, it's not "Jewel Seeds are safe because we can seal them" it is "to make them safe, we must seal Jewel Seeds while we can, and before they cause disasters".

[khagerou]

No it would a speed demon capable of massive sword spam and many many explosions.......
It would be the female version of GAR!

[Muramasa]

You don't seem to be getting my point.

The TSAB can't get the JS out of Shirou. Because of the interference by this mysterious artifact (Avalon), they can't properly seal the JS, and because they can't properly seal it, the interference persists. Every time the Jewel Seed has acted up, it has been because of Reality Marble shenanigans that make it act up and that Shirou only survives (probably) because he has Avalon.

If Avalon tries to come out, then the Jewel Seed will react just the same as when people try to take out the JS. Sealing Avalon for long enough isn't impossible, probably. Doing it with Mid Childan magic? In any reasonable amount of time? Not so much. Assuming they succeed in taking out Avalon? They still have to deal with UBW. And that RM is another OCP problem they can't really deal with.

Avalon is not being removed from Shirou. The connection between the Jewel Seed and Avalon is being cut off. And it is doable through virtually the same way Shirou's circuits are being cut off from the Jewel Seed.

Apparently for whatever reason your convinced the TSAB can't seal Avalon away... The same organization that has a vault containing all sorts of loss logia they have managed to contain and lockdown. And Avalon itself is complete benign in nature. If anything it'd be easier than most.

You're also convinced that inspite of whatever countermeasures the TSAB come up with, that the reaction of the Jewel Seed if it's cut off from Avalon would actually be worse then when Shirou ever made contact with it in the first place, when those countermeasures weren't even there.

No. Sorry. Not buying it.

Finally, as horrible as it sounds. As unbelievably unlikely as I find it occuring, Shirous RM going off (assuming an RM can go off if Shirou's sedated or not conscious during the precedure) is not the end of world. If Avalon is cut off, that Jewel Seed can still get sealed. Nanoha and Fate managed it on their own the last time.

[lhklan]

... I think lethum mean Avalon acting on it own to preserve Shirou's body. What if it had already recognised the Seed as part of Shirou?
Also, Avalon isn't made by man. It's made by Fae. Beings that live in their own universe, have their own rule, and generally cut off from this universe. So I seriously doubt TSAB ran into something that had the same origin. And before you mention TSAB's Dimensional Travel, that's just their term for Space Travel, with the Dimensional Sea being their version of space.
ANd the RM going off... Not the end of the world, maybe. But what if it's the end of Shirou? What if his subconscious kicks in and start sprouding swords inside his body, like that one Bad End?

[Muramasa]

...You could bury Avalon in dirt. That's how not dangerous Avalon is... problem solved. Avalon 'the object' is being contained (well not really. There's no reason to remove it from Shirou). Not Avalon the ever distant Utopia... which can't even be activated without a connection to Saber... and wouldn't do anything to Shirou anyway.


As for the RM flipping out...sigh. Use a high end limiter as an additional countermeasure. Cut off all flow to the circuits... which should already be cut off through the sealing device anyway...

[Santo]

As for the RM flipping out...sigh. Use a high end limiter as an additional countermeasure. Cut off all flow to the circuits... which should already be cut off through the sealing device anyway...

Except...circuits and Linker Cores are two different things.

All the TSAB has tech of works with Linker Cores, not circuits.

You know I am reminded of that one bad end I think Hero wrote where Fate tried to extract the seed till Shirou became a sword porcupine.

The dojo was good...

Hey Hero, any chances of seeing more of those? 8D

[Muramasa]

They know where to cut off Shirou's magic Santo. Otherwise that sealing device would be absolutely useless.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

No, they know where to cut off the Jewel Seed's connection to his magic, which is something entirely different from what they're used to dealing it.
"Cut" isn't really the best word to use. More like "wall in".

[lhklan]

They know where to cut off Shirou's magic Santo. Otherwise that sealing device would be absolutely useless.

I'm sorry, if they cut it off how the bloody hell can he still use Tracing?

[Santo]

They know where to cut off Shirou's magic Santo. Otherwise that sealing device would be absolutely useless.

...So its Shirou feeding a nigh-unending amount of prana into the Jewel Seed rather than the sealing device cutting off the flow of the JS to Shirou...

...something sounds weird.

Not to mention, how come he can still use his magecraft?

[Muramasa]

No, they know where to cut off the Jewel Seed's connection to his magic, which is something entirely different from what they're used to dealing it.
"Cut" isn't really the best word to use. More like "wall in".

It's still pointless. Without the Jewel Seed, it would mean it's Shirou that's doing himself in. Which, while funny doesn't sound very likely to me.


Edit: Ugh... let me elaborate. Weather the limiter is cutting off the circuit or its cutting off the Jewel Seed, it would still cut off the RM from happening regardless.



Edit 2: And if you need a freaking limiter on top of everything else, this has got to be the most fragile, unstable, PoS Jewel Seed I have ever had the displeasure of coming across.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

It's still pointless. Without the Jewel Seed, it would mean it's Shirou that's doing himself in. Which, while funny doesn't sound very likely to me.

I beg your pardon?
Think back on that statement for a bit. I think you'll understand my humour. :>

Also, I did say I think what the sealing device is doing is more like "wall in" interference from the JS. And well, walls can only take so much punishment before they start cracking.

[Muramasa]

I beg your pardon?
Think back on that statement for a bit. I think you'll understand my humour. :>

Also, I did say I think what the sealing device is doing is more like "wall in" interference from the JS. And well, walls can only take so much punishment before they start cracking.

Assuming the wall can't be 'restored', or they can't just prepare more walls, how much time do you think the TSAB needs to seal one Jewel Seed? They just need to cut the connection to Avalon and have Nanoha or Fate do their thing.

[nitewind]

While it's still in Shirou's body?

[Santo]

You seemed to have missed ma post so I'll be askin again.

...So its Shirou feeding a nigh-unending amount of prana into the Jewel Seed rather than the sealing device cutting off the flow of the JS to Shirou...

...something sounds weird.

Not to mention, how come he can still use his magecraft?

[Muramasa]

No I didn't. I re-corrected myself. Check my edits.

While it's still in Shirou's body?

Sure. Gory discretion shots aside. Should be possible to phase the thing right out.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

Assuming the wall can't be 'restored', or they can't just prepare more walls, how much time do you think the TSAB needs to seal one Jewel Seed? They just need to cut the connection to Avalon and have Nanoha or Fate do their thing.

I don't think they can reliably isolate Avalon from Shirou or the JS.
Or at all, really.

Also, what Santo said.

[Santo]

Edit: Ugh... let me elaborate. Weather the limiter is cutting off the circuit or its cutting off the Jewel Seed, it would still cut off the RM from happening regardless.

However we know the limiter is not for stopping Shirou's magic, and the magic they deal with is fundamentally different from what earth magi do. We know Shirou's magic can and will go wild and cause swords to porcupine out of him if he suffers damage enough, and previous attempts have shown that he goes through agony when the JS is being extracted.

We are unsure if someone else can retrieve Avalon out of Shirou, or if Shirou would need to do it himself. And the TSAB has likely not run into something like it.

Seeing as to the JS is inside Shirou and anchored (that is an important word, it is hanging unto Avalon for dead life) to Avalon, it could very well react violently to any attempt to extract that which keeps it warm, cozy, and safe. And the device that limits it will eventually break down, what with unending energy being pumped into it till it explodes.

...How exactly, with the unknown variables, should Kiritsugu decide to give the TSAB free reign to cut blindly into his son with a scalpel?

Edit 2: And if you need a freaking limiter on top of everything else, this has got to be the most fragile, unstable, PoS Jewel Seed I have ever had the displeasure of coming across.

So you've come across ancient batteries that react to wishes and can kill their host if used incorrectly?

[Muramasa]

I don't think they can reliably isolate Avalon from Shirou or the JS.
Or at all, really.

Also, what Santo said.

Than I can't argue with you. I have Word of God that says yes they can. You guys are so convinced the most fragile, unstable PoS jewel seed is going to cause a fatal reaction if the connection to Avalon is cut off, inspite of a Sealing Device, inspite of a limiter, inspite of Nanoha and/or Fate standing by, inspite of whatever other barriers, dampeners, suppressers, whatever that the TSAB can implement to the point of overkill and it still wouldn't work.

I give up. I'm not gonna waste my time on this anymore.

[lhklan]

... Okay, where does it say that TSAB can separate JS from Shirou? Can you give me the post?