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Thread: Lets face it. Type moon doesn't care about Tsukimhime. There aren't enough of us for them to bother

  1. #61
    リビングデッド Living Dead
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    I am optimistic for December 1. Tsukihime 20th anniversary. If nothing happens that day or nasu simply ignores that is you guys can finally lose hope

  2. #62
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    Tsuki has the nostalgia aspect to it in much the same way Stay Night does... for most of the old hats, it's our first exposure to Nasu, whether via anime or the VN.

    I don't remember who described it as such, but one of the members on the old board made a pasta comparison; Fate is like Spaghetti with Marinara. It's simple, bold, straightforward, and flavorful. It's a very direct flavor with a broad appeal. Tsukihime is more of a Fettuccine Alfredo; the flavor is more subtle, milder, more complex and nuanced. It's not for everyone, but it's not bad, either. It has its own fans, and with good reason, but the appeal isn't going to be as broad, perhaps.

    However, when all you're getting is variations of spaghetti, year after year after year, sometimes you want a little something different.

    KnK and Mahoyo hit some of the same notes in flavor. Case Files, too. But it's not that first dish that made you like the pasta dishes in the first place. For some of us, that's Tsuki.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by jaehaerys48 View Post
    Honestly at this point I just want them to say that it's cancelled or on pause or something. It's better for them to be honest about that rather than string the fanbase along like they're doing. Like I think we all know that it's vaporware but it'd be better if we didn't have to be in a situation where we automatically assume that TM is lying when they say that the game is under play testing and whatnot.
    Yeah, I can understand that. It's probably best to think that the series you like has reached its conclusion until otherwise stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post

    So first I'll just say that for the most part, opinions circling within a big group of people should really not be taken at face value. It becomes an echo chamber of the worst opinions, and makes it seem like that vocal minority represents an actual majority (prime example is the entire internet seemingly hating and boycotting The Last of Us 2, and lo and behold, it's like the 3rd best selling game this year or whatever). And this forum, as much as I like it, is far from an exception. A lot of opinions that get thrown around here by a lot of people are very consistently negative, even towards old TM stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised if some people who look here just think that everyone here hate everything about TM, both old and new.
    Bad example. LOU2's sales dropped 80% at week 2. It's basically the usual suspects of people buying the AAA game with pretty graphics. People probably bought it, realized it was shit, and then the momentum died down fast. They probably also lost their core fanbase as well. The Last Jedi also sold well, but it wasn't until Solo and onward that Disney payed the price. Also, the average person probably wasn't hearing about the plot because of the censorship.


    I also question the wisdom of cheering on a remake that involves writing changes. On the Fate side of things, if I were to choose between the Fate/Extra remake and a FSN remake, I'd take Extra over Stay Night in a heartbeat because, even though I like Stay Night more, Extra is the one that stands more to gain. Extra might actually end up with combat that isn't shit. It could end up a far better product. A VN getting the remake would be like making a more fancy cover for the same book. It does not matter. Unless you feel in love with the sprites (or the H-scenes), the core of Tsukihime would not be improved.

    That is, of course, unless you want a rewrite, which is its own can of worms, and would probably end in disaster. A lot of good entries are lightning in the bottle. In tweaking the story, it's extremely likely that good gets rewrote with the bad, and new bad elements are entered, possibly making a worse story. Also, what happens if this rewrote Tsukihime becomes the new mainstream series of typemoon, but has none of the elements you love, but that's now effectively the cannon story. What then?

    I think you should be cheering for a Melty Blood Remake instead.

  4. #64
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    It's not a bad argument. Really, the main points of interest would be in visual updates for most of the work... except there's also the promise of cut content that the author himself hyped shortly after the initial work was released, and has since been referenced in the aforementioned Melty through Satsuki's existence and story. There's also an opportunity for greater context regarding the work and the rest of the continuity that has since grown out of it. And of course the hope of continuations beyond that. Including more Melty Blood, among other things.

    Ofc, it's all just wishful thinking.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubergeneral View Post
    Anyone as disappointed as I am?
    A bitů I could wait another 10 years, though.
    But is the remake even necessary ? Tsukihime (with the Bako Trinity) was at heart a doujin creation ; and after the one&tiny exception of Melty Blood ReAct, TM passed the torch on the fans.
    After many years, their imagination has finally dried up.
    And I Don't even think a sequel could be possible. FSN had only 3 main paths and TM had a hard time trying to continue the story. Tsukihime has more, and most (all) of them end so badly I Don't want to hear what could be next.

  6. #66
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    Presumably it'd have to follow Arc!True or Ciel!Good, unless Sacchin does something that supports Melty... and Melty's original plot seemed to indicate Shiki killed her, so that would presumably demand a Far Side route... which basically has to be one of the maids because of Shiki's condition after the Akiha endings.

    Also, there's Len and Kagetsu Tohya, which requires a Near Side route...
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  7. #67
    リビングデッド Living Dead Nanashi(kari)'s Avatar
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    I assumed the ""canon"" ending that would be used for a sequel would be the one described in Tsukihime PLUS-DISC that is basically Arcueid route with some details from the other routes.

    Anyway in the, extremely hypothetical, case of a Tsukihime 2 happening Nasu most likely would continue the story from a non-existent route that would be detailed in his diary. You know that is totally what he would do.
    Last edited by Nanashi(kari); July 23rd, 2020 at 09:15 PM.

  8. #68
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    Probably. It's either that or Sacchin, because the known ones don't. Presumably Sacchin is a near-side to balance things out, but it probably wouldn't provide the right circumstances either.
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  9. #69
    This is about the five billionth time I've seen a fandom just get strung along by a company that couldn't give two shits about it.

    At least I'm not alone in feeling this way.

  10. #70
    So, after analyzing

    What Nasu has been saying on blogposts and interviews
    Takeuchi words on Nasu's over investment in his works
    The early 2016 manga from acpi and his eventual addition to the guest writer list on FGO site
    The references on FGO
    The delays on works like Fragments
    StudioBB director Kazuya Niinou inverview
    Fate Extra Record date announcement and pic related
    I can, although not 100% safely but close, assume that Nasu is autisticaly planning things based on dates he established more than 15 years ago at least.

    That hypothesis came to my mind first when
    1.Nasu impled in one of his interviews that he planned first for a synced UBW anime ending, FGO ending and Tsukihime Remake release.
    2.This connection is also supported by what can be read in acpi manga, on vol2 specifically.
    3.He changed it for some bullshit he didn't explain, making FGO longer than he intended it to be (the division of Fate worlds and Tsukihime worlds was also somewhat in the same time period).
    4.Eventually, lots of references to things related to Fragments came to be on FGO, then Fragments is delayed, more and more references to Fragments elements are showed on FGO and eventually Requiem is selected for the collab of this year, although there was no reason for it to be while Fragments had all the reasons to be.
    This, allied with an information on updated lore of a chronology on El Melloi materials which basically states that, whatever timeline that was, the Brunestud vs Zelretch battle happened on England, probably near where the Clock Tower is located and 200 years before King Arthur legends, made me think that, probably, Lostbelt 6, which is stated to be Round Table Territory and also confirmed of being dominated by Avalon, as it is confirmed to be dominated by phatasmal beasts and also have a "naive princess that doesn't care what happens that made Beryl almost shit his pants." This made me theorize that maybe Lostbelt 6 would be linked to Millenium Castle Brunestud, maybe it was exactly where Clock Tower was created, even.
    Anyway, although there is some pieces of good evidence for such case, I ruled it out for the LB6 divergence happens in 500AD, making litterally the reason for the divergence to be, although influenced by events before, something related to Arthurian legend. It is probably related to Mordred killing Arthur, becoming king and Morgan le Fay freeing all Avalon and conquering Britain. I don't think it rules out what based Mordred winning, maybe Arthur didn't have as much power because of Brunestud still being alive, perhaps? But that would just as speculative as any other hypothesis, as anything could be the reason.

    Either way, I kinda left off such theory until, well, Fate/Extra remake was announced.

    Now, Nasu already has pointed out that he wanted a remake on interviews. And Kazuya Niinou kind of said that he would help Nasu close the "Fate festival" with /Extra. So nothing here to surprise us.
    However, Nasu also commented that he was receiving updates on Extra Record progress...
    There is a moment in CCC where Rani points out a date that is coincidentaly, the stream date that was one week prior been marked with a timer.
    We also know that Nasu is a fucking autist. I am qualified to identify one (just look at this effort of writing of mine).
    Takeuchi said that Nasu always want to make the same big experiences he had as a child, so he makes his maximum effort on making something that will memorable all the time like when he played games, which is also the reason why Nasu writes the way he does (infodump and heavy chuuni text). I BET that when Kazuya brought up the idea of remaking Extra and showed him that they could make an announcement, Nasu checked his personal autistic calendar of important dates (like CCC) and said "whoa, ok, make a timer and a stream the best way you can as we need to do it on this date!"

    Yeah, it was an expected date because it was when Extra was released.
    Yeah, but he fucking put it on CCC like it was some important date already. 7 years prior.
    When he was already planning FGO plot. There are other indicatives of this happening because of also Extra being a Tsukihime rejected idea one year later the remake being announced.

    I bet that Nasu planned things with his ass plus with this autistic ideas to still connect whatever Fragments will offer, FGO ending and Tsukihime Remake release (or PV). He probably was planning to do that on 2017 with the manga release of acpi, but then he changed idea seeing that "2020 will be the next perfect moment to do everything" and also considering that after all FGO $$$ he should wait and invest in something better (after wasting on games and mushroom noodles). Why? Fate would be finally closed with Extra remake (that he was planning all those years) and the most important: Tsukihime 20th anniversary was the next best date to focus on Tsukihime.

    So, assuming such autism is a fact (and you really can't deny that Nasu spergniness) and that most probably Nasu is delaying everything to make a GRAND (pun intended) transition from Fate to Tsukihime, wouldn't it be, let's say, valid to also show some updates on tsukihime in a spectacular fashion on December 2020? (if not the release?). This would also explains why the Lostbelts are taking so much more time between them lately, even though they have litterally no reason to take such delay (most of the content is already done for a lot of reasons that can be researched easily).

    I will laugh my ass off if Lostbelt 6 or the new FGO opening have a reference to Tsukihime at some level (betting on some cameo of Archetype Earth). If that shit happens, than December 2020 the Remake will forcibly be made relevant again. Don't know how, but surelly will.

    Last edited by Neco-Arc Evolution; July 24th, 2020 at 02:50 AM.

  11. #71
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    A number of points that seem worth considering.

    combined with the general fatigue about FGO, and honestly, probably Fate, Nasu seems to be exhibiting I wouldn’t actually be surprised.

    in the end he’s a passionate nerd and while Fate has been absolutely huge he isn’t the sort of person who would stay satisfied with one sort of thing forever.

    Since other works are their own lines now, he can ignore Fate when working on Tsuki or anything new beyond references too and probably get away without too much disgruntlement from Fate fans.

  12. #72
    Nasu has said multiple times he doesnt want to do fate and then comes back.
    He loves his cashcow

  13. #73
    かか Strange_One's Avatar
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    Maybe it takeuchi, urobutcher and all his fate adventure buds constantly asking for it
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm View Post
    I also question the wisdom of cheering on a remake that involves writing changes. On the Fate side of things, if I were to choose between the Fate/Extra remake and a FSN remake, I'd take Extra over Stay Night in a heartbeat because, even though I like Stay Night more, Extra is the one that stands more to gain. Extra might actually end up with combat that isn't shit. It could end up a far better product. A VN getting the remake would be like making a more fancy cover for the same book. It does not matter. Unless you feel in love with the sprites (or the H-scenes), the core of Tsukihime would not be improved.

    That is, of course, unless you want a rewrite, which is its own can of worms, and would probably end in disaster. A lot of good entries are lightning in the bottle. In tweaking the story, it's extremely likely that good gets rewrote with the bad, and new bad elements are entered, possibly making a worse story. Also, what happens if this rewrote Tsukihime becomes the new mainstream series of typemoon, but has none of the elements you love, but that's now effectively the cannon story. What then?
    Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about it. A remaster would be nice, but it doesn't feel essential to have—the biggest benefit would probably just be making the game easier for me to recommend to my friends who are put off by the outdated visuals. A rewrite, on the other hand (which seems to be more and more what Tsuki Re has veered toward over the years), sounds like a terrible idea. Given the questionable revisions he's already made to his older works on the Fate side of things (whether in things he's written, or in spinoffs and adaptations he's supervised), I don't really have faith in Nasu to still get the core appeal of Tsuki the way he did when he wrote it. I'm sure a rewrite would improve some areas of the story—he's a more experienced writer now, and is probably a lot better in terms of pure craftsmanship—but I suspect it would come at the cost of a lot of the original magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neco-Arc Evolution View Post
    So, after analyzing...
    ...Why do I hear "Oh Yeah" by Yello playing when I read this?

  15. #75
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Well, we've been through all this. Tsukihime remake isn't happening because Nasu is out of touch with Young and Depressed Nasu that would want to write a harsh but ultimately hopeful story like Tsukihime. No matter how many rewrites he does he's just turning it into Extella because that's the wavelength he has been on. At least he can recognize that.

    I'd say there were a few Nasus over the years. There is no going back, but we have yet to see them all.

    0) Doujin Nasu - Rakkyo, O!Mahoyo
    1) Young and Depressed Nasu - Tsukihime, KT
    2) Go-getter Nasu - FSN, Hollow
    3) Experimental Nasu Enjoing Riches - Extra, N!Mahoyo 1
    4) Desolate Nasu Throwing Shit On The Wall To See What Sticks - Extella, FGO
    5) Punished Nasu Drained by Capitalist Working Hours - ????
    6) Punished Nasu Disowned by Company For Too Much Soulsborne and Not Enough Writing as Sakurai Takes Over - ????
    7) Hookers and Blow Nasu - ????
    8) Out of Money Nasu Looking to Cash In - ????
    9) Nasu Reminded of Own Mortality - ????
    10) Old and Depressed Nasu - TsukiRe?????????????

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler:

    Pictured: Tsukihime, Fate, Extella.

  16. #76
    I'm not sure we, the fans, will actually get to see all of those stages. Nasu has always seemed like a pretty private creator who has to be coaxed by the people around him into releasing his passion projects publicly. I could quite imagine Nasu doing what George Lucas did after he finished the Star Wars prequels, when he said "I'm gonna keep directing because I enjoy it, but I'm not gonna release anything publicly. I'm just gonna make small, cheap films which I'll maybe screen for a few of my friends."

    Then again, Nasu hardly has Lucas levels of "never have to work a day in my life again" wealth to fall back on. But if needing to pay the bills is what motivates him to keep releasing his work publicly, that surely has to affect the tone and content of the work itself as well.

  17. #77
    Honestly I don't particularly care about the tsukihime remake anymore. Anything that's not related to Fate and ties to previous works (Notes,Mahoutsukai,tsuki, etc.) would be ok.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Holiday View Post
    I'm not sure we, the fans, will actually get to see all of those stages. Nasu has always seemed like a pretty private creator who has to be coaxed by the people around him into releasing his passion projects publicly. I could quite imagine Nasu doing what George Lucas did after he finished the Star Wars prequels, when he said "I'm gonna keep directing because I enjoy it, but I'm not gonna release anything publicly. I'm just gonna make small, cheap films which I'll maybe screen for a few of my friends."

    Then again, Nasu hardly has Lucas levels of "never have to work a day in my life again" wealth to fall back on. But if needing to pay the bills is what motivates him to keep releasing his work publicly, that surely has to affect the tone and content of the work itself as well.
    I've always presumed nasu has had a shit ton of notes and such hidden away the he never wants to use.

  19. #79
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    From what I've heard, it does seem to be a rewrite rather than a remake... oi.
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  20. #80
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    It was always going to be a rewrite.

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