TYPE-MOON Recycled Ideas Thread

[fire_mountain_30]

I thought that it would be interesting to have a place specifically designated for us to discussed which thematic and character ideas have been recycled from older iterations of the Nasuverse and incorporated in Neo Type-Moon / Post-Fate Type-Moon.

(you may also mention ideas that you found in works from the other authors not named Nasu that they incorporated into their TM works).


For example:

1- Musashi's Mystic eyes being previously shown in the bomber from KnK.

2- Goetia being an a tie-in to the "Ancient I" (i also think that Nasu took a lot of ideas from the Dark Six that was described as a "System" made up of various entities and incorporated some of those ideas into Goetia. lets not bring up the Six Sisters into this either i suppose).

3- Achilles' immortality is oddly similar to Astaroth's ability in Higashide's previous work called "Tokyo Babel".

[Crown]

Nasu reused Enjou's tragic background to some extent with Sinker from DDD. Felt more empathetic towards Sinker though.

[Comun]

Mitsuru's future estimation is not really what Musashi does, it's what Chiron's/Arash's Clairvoyance does. And I guess Sion's Trismegistus and Xiang Yu do the same thing. And that reminds that Rail Zeppelin's case is almost a retelling of Mirai Fukuin.

Anyways, the first cases that come to mind is the Animusphere plot being somewhat copied from whatever Caubac accomplished (with Francesca in FsF implying Triten is very similar to Chaldea, and Caubac himself commenting his field of expertise is "defining an end goal, then displaying the route to that future by changing the initial premises"), and being a call back to a line in Kagetsu's Crimson Moon ("But how could a planet without a mirror image of itself define its own standard values? Where can it find an appraisser?").

Speaking of Kagetsu, Fujimaru's ability to connect their dreams with other people's dreams functions almost identically to what was happening to Shiki there.

All the oni stuff from Tsukihime gets (awful) call backs in Shimousa. But at very least, their themes of social rigidity versus unempathetic freedom stayed consistent through all oni characters all the way from Tsukihime to FGO.

Surtr is a 2006(?) glossary entry turned character. I'm sure there's a lot more, since this Nasu cares a whole lot about this kind of consistency, but that's all I have from the top of my head for now.

[Takashi]

Heavenly eyes restricts all possible futures and only the solution where she could cut becomes the only possible. While mitsuru only sees the path where it's best outcome. He doesn't restrict other possibilities rather he follows the best possibilities out of all possibilities

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It's like calculation. While musashi doesn't really calculate.

[ballinamon]

8th Servant Shielder -> Tachie -> Mash

[Byegod]

Lion king, dust of osiris, araya, probably more

Nasu has repeated the general goal idea a few too many times, think he's obsessed with the idea and not in a good way

[Mementore]

There was a reference to Plus Period in the latest fgo chapter where Holmes (or Da Vinci?) explained that humanity can't calculate the life of planets.

[Ratman]

I'm not even sure if Six Sisters -> Sixth Magic -> The Dark Six -> The Sixth -> Beast VI can be called recycling or just an actual thematic thread. Especially since we only kinda go in depth on The Sixth.

[fire_mountain_30]

I'm not even sure if Six Sisters -> Sixth Magic -> The Dark Six -> The Sixth -> Beast VI can be called recycling or just an actual thematic thread. Especially since we only kinda go in depth on The Sixth.

i didnt mean the Sixth Magic itself. just the theme of multiple entities making up a single system under a single name

[Comun]

What is this The Sixth here?

[Ratman]

If warc is to be believed, the Tsukihime idea of Crimson Moon's return in 3000 AD, which is called that for no particular reason. It is also what Zepia went mad over, which kind of suggests it's more of a general eschatological term, meaning the inevitable end of mankind, and can encompass more stuff, like the Aylesbury Ritual.

This is where you say uh but Zepia went crazy over there being too many loose ends in all the different possible futures and Zepia went mad from trying to keep track of them all, but I assure you Nasu did not think of that yet at the time.

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In fact, Zepia went mad from the fact that the end of mankind was a mathematical certainty he could not weasel his way out of.

[GarlandGreene]

Having Jouji Nakata voice the best character in all of your respective series

Spoiler:

[Mementore]

I just realized that Goetia and Tiamat are a copy Roa and Nrvsqr.

For Chaos it was kinda obvious, but once I looked at Roa's backstory I noticed that he and Goetia share more than just wanting immortality.

It's kind of sad seeing that the last time Nasu made a new villain was in CCC with Kiara.

[Kubera]

Don't know if it counts for the purpose of this topic but Wodime in LB5 gave me similar vibes to Leo in CCC.

I just realized that Goetia and Tiamat are a copy Roa and Nrvsqr.

For Chaos it was kinda obvious, but once I looked at Roa's backstory I noticed that he and Goetia share more than just wanting immortality.

It's kind of sad seeing that the last time Nasu made a new villain was in CCC with Kiara.

Tiamat's mud is more directly based on Angra & Dark Sakura, I think it's stated in the game too that they are similar. Of course the grail mud itself could have been based on Chaos so the reference is still there even if indirect.

[Reign]

Tiamat's mud is directly compared to the grail mud and her Mats profile says part of her design came from Dark Sakura (the black with red stripes). That being said the spawning of beasts from the Chaos Tide is a lot like Nrvnqsr's. She's got both going on.

[DTTS]

The thing Goetia shares with Roa is disdain for other living beings due to their finite existence and belief that death makes life meaningless.
Other than that their development, motivation and goals are very different. For one thing Goetia was actually immortal beyond his one Achilles heel, unlike lover boy.

[Comun]

I just realized that Goetia and Tiamat are a copy Roa and Nrvsqr.

For Chaos it was kinda obvious, but once I looked at Roa's backstory I noticed that he and Goetia share more than just wanting immortality.

It's kind of sad seeing that the last time Nasu made a new villain was in CCC with Kiara.

Goetia is a lot more like Zepia, being the one driven by misguided selflessness and hopelessness over future demises and inevitable parts of human nature. The Roa of the early Beasts would be Kiara, as the power-hungry religious figure with sexual themes and very skewed moral standards.

[Mementore]

I agree that Roa doesn't have the same selflessness that Goetia has, but he shares his way of thinking that things don't have a meaning if they have an end.

I'd say he represent the sin of pity better than Goetia, being he himself a human who pitied his own condition and that of others.

Also, I feel like the two of them were people who tried two different method to achieve the same goal, with the difference being whether or not they wanted to impose their ideas on others or wanted to keep it to themselves.

Basically, if you give Arcueid the same ideology as Roa you get Goetia, as the difference between Roa and Goetia was basically that one was a human and the other was... something.

[DTTS]

The whole point of the Pity that Goetia represents is that it's born of arrogance since he himself actually possesses that which he selfishly tries to impose on others.
The main difference being that Goetia actually reconsidered his opinion at the end and somewhat sorted out his misunderstanding of Solomon unlike Roa.

[Mementore]

The whole point of the Pity that Goetia represents is that it's born of arrogance since he himself actually possesses that which he selfishly tries to impose on others.
The main difference being that Goetia actually reconsidered his opinion at the end and somewhat sorted out his misunderstanding of Solomon unlike Roa.

That's exactly why I said that Roa represent the human sin of pity better than Goetia, whose opinion was mainly based on his inhuman nature, while Roa pitied the ephemeral nature of life while being human himself.