Sakura's problem: I still confuse about Magic Crest and Sealing designations.

[Maltese]

so, shinjis mother was jut worm food because he sucked ?

Danm..

He mentions he could probably find her remains in the worm room, but he doesn't really want to see that.

[forumghost]

If she gets the job done she wouldn’t be fed.

I doubt that. Zouken is an utter bastard and would probably kill Aoi even if she had fulfilled the roll he wanted for her and helped rejuvenate the Matou bloodline, just because he'd want to make sure that any children involved wouldn't have caring parents to look after them and would be forced to depend on him.

[kohaku]

Touko's very very very far from a normal example.

I mean. They raised Touko as the Magus. Then they stopped and move to Aoko.

However, thank to their teaching, Touko still can continue her way as the Magus.

Many Magus is self-studying. Include Waver.

[madarra]

I mean. They raised Touko as the Magus. Then they stopped and move to Aoko.

However, thank to their teaching, Touko still can continue her way as the Magus.

Many Magus is self-studying. Include Waver.

Isnt some of Toukos magus capabilities a result of her doing the formaldehyde thing to magi?

[Deathhappens]

But both Aoko and Touko finally become the great Magus, right?
And they actually have the " highschool" in the Clock Tower, right? Almost of these "teachers" from these old families,too.

--------------------------------

another question:

Why Zouken didn't train Sakura follow her Hollow Element? Instead, he trained her follow Matou's Water Elements?

Does he think Hollow isn't good to fight in HGW than Water? Or he simply doesn't know how to train her?

Well no. Touko became a great magus, Aoko became a superpowered bum

And neither are really what the Association (or Tokiomi) would consider "proper magi".

[Herod]

Isnt some of Toukos magus capabilities a result of her doing the formaldehyde thing to magi?

More or less. She keeps all the magi that tried to defeat her in some sort of hedonistic paradise while she uses their crest.

[kohaku]

Well no. Touko became a great magus, Aoko became a superpowered bum

And neither are really what the Association (or Tokiomi) would consider "proper magi".

I mean. Aozaki family really teached them.
However, almost of their knowledge/skill/ power in the present-day is thank to their self-studying.

[Misaya]

Touko is special case here, just her magic circuit surpass many great magus had Crest. When talk about its quality, even the Lord Inorai agreed to let her have sealing designation. So basically Touko doesnt need the Crest from the beginning.
Its true that many Magus self-studying to increase their knowledge but becoming great magus just from that is 50/50 case. If you can learn by your own, you wont go the Clock Tower. Also Waver is a special case too, he is a Lord so he can access to the library of his department which has many things from previous heads and huge amount of books that Kayneth/El-Melloi family have collected when he alive. Furthermore, his Sorcery Trait is Counteraction let him to know more about each Magecraft better, I think that play a big role for this big head prof. So normal magi cant be like Waver

[kohaku]

Touko is special case here, just her magic circuit surpass many great magus had Crest. When talk about its quality, even the Lord Inorai agreed to let her have sealing designation. So basically Touko doesnt need the Crest from the beginning.
Its true that many Magus self-studying to increase their knowledge but becoming great magus just from that is 50/50 case. If you can learn by your own, you wont go the Clock Tower. Also Waver is a special case too, he is a Lord so he can access to the library of his department which has many things from previous heads and huge amount of books that Kayneth/El-Melloi family have collected when he alive. Furthermore, his Sorcery Trait is Counteraction let him to know more about each Magecraft better, I think that play a big role for this big head prof. So normal magi cant be like Waver

so. Summary, FZ Tokiomi's idea actually isn't " i want both of my daughters become the Magus.", but " I want both of my daughters become the great Magus, reach to the limit they can with their talent.".

That is why I want every of them receiced one-full-Magic Crest.

It isn't become Magic Crest isn't work if you split it to many smaller parts. But It is more powerful if you use it in full power.

[Altima of the Gates]

There is nothing illegal according to the Association about teaching both your children magecraft, no. But it is a tradition among western magi to only teach another child magecraft if there is no other choice or if you are going to use that child as a political tool e.g. sola as spare turned into marriage chip, caules as a spare and caretaker
Sakura and Rin's case is entirely different. Both have supposedly equal magical potential. There is only one crest. If both are equal whoever gets the crest and inherits the family > than the one who doesn't have the crest.
Tokiomi believed both should be able to live their best magical lives possible, considering their tremendous talents. He believes he is unable to give both of his daughters that.

That's the problem that doesn't really make this tragic irony though.
He would be expecting people to swallow that a child with that much talent wouldn't have a list of people banging down the door.
Let's assume his relatives the Edefelts are out and his idea is to give her to someone who had the capital to get her training. The Makiri for allintent and purposes have the capital, but he knows personally that they have fallen off the path as he mentioned in Zero.
So even if they were allies once upon a time, logic states that they no longer would deserve such a scion for their house by his standards, as they want the grail purely for worldly desires. Out of all the families in the world, why there?

[Menwearpink]

hey two chances at winning the grail for his kids.

Also the Matou are, even if they're failing in terms of specs, are a very super family. After all they did basically make all the heroic spirit stuff of the grail system, and command seals.

That's stuff you want in on for sure.

[forumghost]

That's the problem that doesn't really make this tragic irony though.
He would be expecting people to swallow that a child with that much talent wouldn't have a list of people banging down the door.
Let's assume his relatives the Edefelts are out and his idea is to give her to someone who had the capital to get her training. The Makiri for allintent and purposes have the capital, but he knows personally that they have fallen off the path as he mentioned in Zero.
So even if they were allies once upon a time, logic states that they no longer would deserve such a scion for their house by his standards, as they want the grail purely for worldly desires. Out of all the families in the world, why there?

Wasn't the Matou falling off the path why he chose them?

A family in good standing wouldn't make her the Heir, even if they would take her in. Besides, IIRC he thought they'd be even more grateful and thus treat Sakura even better, because she'd become the Saviour of their Bloodline, or something.

[warellis]

Wasn't the Matou falling off the path why he chose them?

A family in good standing wouldn't make her the Heir, even if they would take her in. Besides, IIRC he thought they'd be even more grateful and thus treat Sakura even better, because she'd become the Saviour of their Bloodline, or something.

I forget, did Tokiomi think the Matou fell off the path due to Kariya abandoning them or did he think they fell off because of something else?

Also, thinking on it it kind of does make me wonder how Sakura even gets teaching in a scenario where she is taken in by the Edelfelt, because well both Luvia and her sister are the heirs, so isn't Sakura technically left out in the cold there as well, magically speaking?

so. Summary, FZ Tokiomi's idea actually isn't " i want both of my daughters become the Magus.", but " I want both of my daughters become the great Magus, reach to the limit they can with their talent.".

That is why I want every of them receiced one-full-Magic Crest.

It isn't become Magic Crest isn't work if you split it to many smaller parts. But It is more powerful if you use it in full power.

Not just that but aren't the Tohsaka young enough there might be issues with attempting that small Crest break off stuff mentioned in Case Files?

[Draconic]

Ah yes, the old Magus catch 22.

If you don't find a path to the Root, you're a loser poser.
If you do find a path to the Root, you get a Sealing Designation because people want to steal your research.

The best part is that by the time Barthomeloi dies, Waver will have trained an entire generation of mages to be honest human beings who know how to make it look like they’re depraved sickos without actually being monsters. All of a sudden, the Lords who want to kill anyone who gets closer to the root than them will find themselves short of support.

- - - Updated - - -

Why Zouken didn't train Sakura follow her Hollow Element? Instead, he trained her follow Matou's Water Elements?

Does he think Hollow isn't good to fight in HGW than Water? Or he simply doesn't know how to train her?

Zouken’s goal isn’t to train Sakura. There is no Matou Bloodline in his opinion. Just him. What he wanted was to destroy her psyche with constant torture.

Basically he wanted to empty her out, and transplant his consciousness into her body after turning her into a spiritual entity similar to a Servant, which wouldn’t decay like all the bodies that he goes through on a nearly monthly basis at this point, over the course of the HGW, but Angra Mainyu beats him to the punch. Also, his soul wouldn’t be compatible with her Hollow elemental affinity, so he had to turn her into a Matou first.

[kohaku]

another question:

Do we have any record or interview, source material which says that younger Sakura tried to escape Matou house, to ask their father/sister for help?

I mean, two family just several steps away from each other. it is too close.

[You]

Also, thinking on it it kind of does make me wonder how Sakura even gets teaching in a scenario where she is taken in by the Edelfelt, because well both Luvia and her sister are the heirs, so isn't Sakura technically left out in the cold there as well, magically speaking?

Luvia would ensure Sakura is properly taught because she doesn't want talent wasted.

[Menwearpink]

The best part is that by the time Barthomeloi dies, Waver will have trained an entire generation of mages to be honest human beings who know how to make it look like they’re depraved sickos without actually being monsters. All of a sudden, the Lords who want to kill anyone who gets closer to the root than them will find themselves short of support.

.

Now this is just reading like one of my reddit fan fictions.

Otherwise you’re also assuming Zouken can and needs to do something like that when his plan is to use the grail to stop dying to begin with. If he’s doing things with Dark Sakura he’s actively gunning to win anyway.

[Draconic]

You’re prolly right. I just want to see the mage world collapse because of how hilariously unsustainable it is. They’re literally maintaining the status quo by murdering anyone who would argue with it. Eventually you run out of people, or, more likely, they finally wise up, get sick of you killing them all the time, and kill you first.

[kohaku]

You’re prolly right. I just want to see the mage world collapse because of how hilariously unsustainable it is. They’re literally maintaining the status quo by murdering anyone who would argue with it. Eventually you run out of people, or, more likely, they finally wise up, get sick of you killing them all the time, and kill you first.

I have the sentence:

Strength, Magic. It can't not defeat the Power.

If these countries really want. You think NATO+ USA can be defeated by Clock Tower? Nope.

They have their madness magecraft.
We have the population, the community, the money, the system and the technology.

[warellis]

Luvia would ensure Sakura is properly taught because she doesn't want talent wasted.

Oh, right. Would she be able to protect Sakura from a Sealing Designation then though? Tokiomi seemed to think that required being an heir.