Agree. Most F/SN fans on this forum already hate Sakura.Originally Posted by weeblord
People hate Sakura because she controversial character. Why you guys have suddenly problem with Rin haters ?
Agree. Most F/SN fans on this forum already hate Sakura.
People hate Sakura because she controversial character. Why you guys have suddenly problem with Rin haters ?
@555: you still not get out of your trauma?
I think you should blame Nasu instead of Rin. It is his fault to write her that way, and prevents her from talking with her sister.
Not everyone here is Sakura's antifan. Stop your trauma NOW. Or you will repeat your trouble again, as same as when you shout at that rape survivor several months ago.
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By the way, anyone have any good explanation why Nasu suddenly write HF true End under Rin's view?
Last edited by kohaku; February 4th, 2021 at 04:55 AM.
Actually best boi Kirei got rid of all the worms, remember? All that remained was what was fused to the nerves of her heart (aka Zouken's soul worm) So yay, de-worming complete, she didn't even need to take one of those little tablets like my mum's cat.
Sakura is generally the least popular of the three main heroines it's true, but there's actually not a lot of hate for her- at least not these days. Sakura hate mostly died down after her White Knight left
Bookends. Fate/Stay Night began with Rin in the Prologue, then she shows up again as the PoV character for the Epilogue.
I said most F/SN fans on this forum@555: you still not get out of your trauma?
I think you should blame Nasu instead of Rin. It is his fault to write her that way, and prevents her from talking with her sister.
Not everyone here is Sakura's antifan. Stop your trauma NOW. Or you will repeat your trouble again, as same as when you shout at that rape survivor several months ago.
Which mean I never refer everyone hate Sakura.
I can agree your view about I should hate Nasu than Rin because he is Rin fans and really biased toward her.
Honestly if I were to point out why a lot of "hatred" is pointed at Sakura I would say it's kinda the structure of the VN in itself.
It's very easy to get attached to both Saber and Rin, in both Fate and UBW, since they're proeminent characters in both routes. Sakura, in the other hand, is a SoL character in those. A nice presence to indicate things are ok, but when the plot gets serious she stops being around.
Then HF rolls around, and rather abruptly you are made to understand Sakura's actual role in the story, and the situation escalates far faster leading to some pretty high-stakes decisions much earlier on. And I think someone that got attached to Saber and Rin might want to resist that whiplash, even if they like the HF story in itself. If nothing else, this is why I disliked Sakura some 7 years ago. And now I don't.
I'm really glad to see she's found a spot in the fandom since the HF movies came around.
burn your dread you coward
Honestly people here don't hate Sakura. They're more generally indifferent to her.
Rin and Saber also has their white knight. They defend Rin and Saber and most F/SN fans still okay with that ?.
Sakura is generally the least popular of the three main heroines it's true, but there's actually not a lot of hate for her- at least not these days. Sakura hate mostly died down after her White Knight left
Sound like a double standard.
Last edited by Triple accel 555; February 4th, 2021 at 07:03 AM.
It's the double standard of liking one character better. No conspiracy at all.
don't quote me on this
Nobody really cares (or at least nobody should care) who Waifu's for who, my dude.
I was simply making an observation that after a single particularly toxic poster that just happened to be a hardcore Sakura fanboy that would derail literally any topic he could into a discussion of her was banned, the amount of hate towards her as a character has decreased (probably due to not having her injected into every discussion, regardless of whether it made sense or not).
You think how many percent of worms which fused to her nerves and heart? 20%? Or 50-70%? We don't know. But we can understand that is very many.
Remember, after Kirei's de-worming, these worms still strong enough to torture her during day 10-14.
And this isn't just about physical problem. You really can say " it is ok compare to my cat" everytime you think about something filthy still inside your body + " hello. We raped you for 11 years. How are you now?". I don't know how everyone feels if they in that situation, but it make me angry enough to burn Tokiomi corpse to the ash.
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And don't forget about her crime. Killing around 100 citizens + 60 houses. It is enough for anyone to fell into madness ( of course, exclude these guys as Alexander or Gilles or Gilgamesh).
If this is his reason. It is very terrible reason. He tries to analyze about Sakura's feeling through a character who even confirmed that she can't understand her sister?
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Why we should talk about wifu war, instead of discuss about where were Nasu wrong and how to fix HF route?
Last edited by kohaku; February 4th, 2021 at 08:10 AM.
Kirei is very good at what he does, It's pretty clear that by the end the worms are gone.
The problem is that it doesn't solve the larger problems are caused by the modifications already made to her body- specifically the process that turned her into the Black Holy Grail. Throughout Heaven's Feel her body is breaking down because she's om-nom-nomed on a bunch of incredibly powerful souls and her psyche is straining under the pressure because she's got about 30 pounds of Soul/Magic energy in the 5 pound bag that is her body.
I mean yeah, the real issue is that Sakura has been mentally and emotionally destroyed over a 10 year period to the point where she finds it hard to believe that she could ever deserve good in her life because she believes herself to be an unclean, awful thing, and not the worms. The Worms can be removed.And this isn't just about physical problem. You really can say " it is ok compare to my cat" everytime you think about something filthy still inside your body + " hello. We raped you for 11 years. How are you now?". I don't know how everyone feels if they in that situation, but it make me angry enough to burn Tokiomi corpse to the ash.
Who says anyone forgot? By the time we see her in the epilogue, it's been like, three years (Shirou had a year off recovering, And he and Sakura have graduated together), and she's had time to process her issues and move forward. That's the point of the Epilogue ending with Rin and Sakura talking, and Sakura being able to genuinely smile.And don't forget about her crime. Killing around 100 citizens + 60 houses. It is enough for anyone to fell into madness ( of course, exclude these guys as Alexander or Gilles or Gilgamesh).
Agree to Disagree here is all I'll say. I find the using of Rin's perspective as a framing device for the narrative quite effective, and feel like it's a good way to show that her relationship with her Sister has healed from what it was. Like, what do you want here, a scene where Rin get's lectured by Sakura about how awful and dumb she is in the Happily Ever After Epilogue?If this is his reason. It is very terrible reason. He tries to analyze about Sakura's feeling through a character who even confirmed that she can't understand her sister?
I mean as far as 'fixing' the Heavens Feel Route I think that TomPen hit the nail on the head.Why we should talk about wifu war, instead of discuss about where were Nasu wrong and how to fix HF route?
In order for Heaven's Feel to really work, you need the Audience to care about Sakura as much as Shirou does, but for whatever reason, Nasu decided to include all the parts where Shirou came to care about Sakura in the nebulous off-screen backstory zone. What's needed is for Sakura to get some scenes in Fate/UBW to help the audience care about her, instead of having her be "that girl that cooked breakfast on days 1-4 and then dropped off the planet."
Of course, that runs the risk of Ruining the 'wham' factor of the original VN where you think that Sakura is just a Normie but Ackchyually, but I for one don't particularly care about that.
Last edited by forumghost; February 4th, 2021 at 08:44 AM.
After 11 years. It is very difficult to believe that almost all of these worms are still not fused with her nerves. Kirei is good, but he can't do what he can't. During day 10-14, consume 4 Servant cause her body in the horrible situation, and worms is the reason of her starving of human meat and sex, not the Shadow.
Summary, Kirei tried, but he can't remove all of them. He says only HG's wishing can do that, not him. She will live with that body until the end of her life. Look like you trying to imagine everything follow the good way. I like to believe it,too. But it actually not.
Nasu actually mentions how Sakura thinks about her guilty ( just one sentence again). She accepts and lives with it. But it never gone away. Look at these war veterans. Many years after, they were still haunted by their trauma. These haunting will haunt them forever. They just can get used to it.Who says anyone forgot? By the time we see her in the epilogue, it's been like, three years (Shirou had a year off recovering, And he and Sakura have graduated together), and she's had time to process her issues and move forward. That's the point of the Epilogue ending with Rin and Sakura talking, and Sakura being able to genuinely smile.
If you talk about her smile. Well. We know that Sakura always tries to make everyone not feel sorry for her. And she always tries to satisfied herself with her situation. She actually smiles just by cooking with Shirou, while she is tortured everynight in the worms pit, right. She even feels happy just because Rin usually greets her at school, and thinks " I shouldn't ask for more.". She never can find the real happy ending, really.
That is a reason why I don't feel good about the sister war on day 16,too. Instead talk directly about what happened between these sisters, she just say something very common about 11 years. Come on, can you say something more directly? Exp:
- Why father give birth to me just replace you if you die?
- Why I has to get rape when you refuse Nii-san? Anyone who can't have sex with you, they can rape me instead?
- If you family wants to kill me, why not do it from 11 years ago? Don't rape me and let me alive long enough if you will kill me anyway.
Something like that.
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Well. Summary. I always not satisfied with the True End. It looks like a happy ending. But actually it is " satisfied with anything you have", and everyone just tries to act.
I think it is better if he writes True End under the view of both sisters. And focus on what they are thinking about each other.Agree to Disagree here is all I'll say. I find the using of Rin's perspective as a framing device for the narrative quite effective, and feel like it's a good way to show that her relationship with her Sister has healed from what it was. Like, what do you want here, a scene where Rin get's lectured by Sakura about how awful and dumb she is in the Happily Ever After Epilogue?
Say the truth, Rin in the True End just explains what was happened during 3 years more than explains her feeling about her sister.
Another Idea. I take note it.I mean as far as 'fixing' the Heavens Feel Route I think that TomPen hit the nail on the head.
In order for Heaven's Feel to really work, you need the Audience to care about Sakura as much as Shirou does, but for whatever reason, Nasu decided to include all the parts where Shirou came to care about Sakura in the nebulous off-screen backstory zone. What's needed is for Sakura to get some scenes in Fate/UBW to help the audience care about her, instead of having her be "that girl that cooked breakfast on days 1-4 and then dropped off the planet."
Of course, that runs the risk of Ruining the 'wham' factor of the original VN where you think that Sakura is just a Normie but Ackchyually, but I for one don't particularly care about that.
Last edited by kohaku; February 4th, 2021 at 09:57 AM.
This, very much.
Back when I first started FSN, I didn't dislike Sakura per say, but rather Heaven's Feel back when people were high on the idea that it was the "true" route and that pissed me off as a UBW fan. Now with the introduction of multiple timelines in the series and some clarity, I've basically moved past that, and can enjoy Heaven's Feel and Sakura's character a lot more. I still prefer Saber and Rin, but Sakura is basically on their level to me as a character.
Looks like you forget Kirei , Shirou , Zouken , Illya pointed about Sakura isn't the one killing people. Angra Mainyu use her body too kill people so he can reborn into the world through the her.
Sakura's crimes' are more in her imagination. She tended to blame herself over everything, even her own abuse. Saber is the same as Sakura, someone who carries the blame and would snap (they are very suited as master/servant partners after both of them got blackened).
The Shadow was Avenger (or rather the Grail) consuming people as she slept, using the uncanny compatibility of Matou magic (and imaginary numbers) to make it happen. Avenger was innocent too. Sakura put a stop to this once she realized it by not sleeping again.
She only had control over it during the last days, after she snapped, by going Dark Sakura. The people she killed were: Kotomine Kirei, Zouken Matou, True Assassin, and Shinji Matou (accidentally). What 'crimes' do you speak about?
guess we've answered that one
???
You don't understand who Sakura is.
She has a clear idea. No matter she is controlled by worms/ in the exhausted body/ tries to resist the Devil/ infected by Angra Mainyu. If she kills people, it is her crime. She isn't trying to hide, tries to cover, or tries to explain about it. She is different compare to other people.
During 10 years of Fuyuki, two HGW, just two guys cried when these innocents died because of them. They are Kiritsugu and Sakura.
That is why I feel funny when an antifan says that she can't compare to Alexander. Do you think who is the most evil of the two HGWs? Zouken? Tokiomi? He is Alex. No one among these Masters and Servants who kills more people than him. " Conqueror" just a beautiful word of " super serial killer.". And you can see, he doesn't care. The only reason make him different to Hitler or Stalin, it is because he is " the winner" of his period.
Last edited by kohaku; February 4th, 2021 at 11:44 AM.
I dont think is a screentime porblem, at least not first. She would be the most polarizing girl anways because shiro ditched his ideals for her , and dont matter if we know why he does it, some people will not like it anywas. I also dont think there is much to "fix " there, he actions and personality made perfect sense considering her backgorund, you either ike her as she is or not, most "fixing" would likely make her a whole different character
Im glad you seem to understand her, eve if you are not a fan of hers
Last edited by TheSeaDragon; February 4th, 2021 at 01:42 PM.
Looks like your forget detail about HF. Sakura not the one who murdered people. Even Kirei and Zouken pointed Holy Grail use her body to feed people so he can reborn into world and slowly destroy her (Femme Fatale and Fate / Unlimited Code Dark Sakura ending already show that)???
Shadow that devoured people is Avenger who was feeding and sneaking behind Sakura's conscious 'door' while she slept. Kotomine even explains this. Shirou gets in a debate that Sakura didn't choose that so she's innocent. Kirei agrees but counters that a baby can't be blamed for wishing to feed, so Angra is innocent too.
what do Sakura's servants Medusa and Angra Mainyu have in common? Being innocents who were demonized and wrongly persecuted by the ones around them, that's what.
Last edited by Triple accel 555; February 4th, 2021 at 05:02 PM.
Analyze Rin's thinking is very important,too.
I think the main trouble is how to describe everything in HF route more easier so everyone can understand. If the readers can't understand the most simple thing like actually Rin under Sakura's mercy during days 11-14, how can they understand something more difficult?
In HF route, Nasu usually writes these important points follow this way: " It is very important, but I only say it in one sentence. Read carefully or you will miss it.". Maybe It will not a trouble in Fate and UBW route. But in HF route, it is the nightmare.
Last edited by kohaku; February 4th, 2021 at 06:08 PM.
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