Sakura's problem: I still confuse about Magic Crest and Sealing designations.

[Altima of the Gates]

Honestly one of the more annoying Rider "This-is-actually-a-Sakura-scene" scenes in FHA is the one where Shirou & Rider are just hanging out together in her room reading and Sakura comes in to talk to Rider about something, sees Shirou is just reading with her, and then tries to contrive an excuse to get him out in the hallway and conveniently "not remembering" what she wanted to talk to Shirou about.

Nothing sexual, nothijg flirty from Rider, etc. Just Sakura getting stressed at any thought of Rider & Shirou alone.A lot of them really aren't cockblock scenes, they just often turn from a Rider scene into a "Rider & Sakura" scene.

The main point I think is that Sakura wouldn't feel that way if Medusa wasn't creepin'. I know its annoying when you want to see a ship you like, but its just the truth of the matter based on that context. There is an negative air between the two primarily because Medusa is the one being dishonest(she bribes both Sakura and Shirou because she knows she is working under the table so to speak), otherwise it would be fine.
Though I will admit that the book scene is trying to play the jealousy comedy trope too hard. But its few and far between when its layer on that thick.
Heck we even have a scene where Sakura tells Shirou to essentially take Medusa out on the town while she takes care of her injured kouhai. Plenty of other examples like that. Plus I remember saying before all the heroines have instances of being catty with each other about Shirou. Sakura mainly seems like the most noticeable because she has stigma.

[SpoonyViking]

Rin having Shirou's affection is tangential to her general resentment of Rin. Yeah, it certainly doesn't help things, but that's not really why Sakura resents her.

It's the straw that breaks the camel's back.
She already resents the hell out of Rin, but she keeps it suppressed. When it looks even a little bit like Shirou is falling for Rin, she immediately goes "Oh, so you're not happy with having everything else, you're going to take *him* away from me too, huh?".

Even that Hollow Eclipse with the threesome can be interpreted in different ways, did Sakura interfere, or is Medusa just exhibiting delusions of wanting her Master and Shirou to shag her at the same time?

I thought it was pretty clear that that was Medusa's subconscious turned against her by Kibisis?
Also, do they both shag her? It's been a while, but I thought that "Sakura" only provided some commentary and the sex in itself was just with Shirou?

[kohaku]

It's the straw that breaks the camel's back.
She already resents the hell out of Rin, but she keeps it suppressed. When it looks even a little bit like Shirou is falling for Rin, she immediately goes "Oh, so you're not happy with having everything else, you're going to take *him* away from me too, huh?".

The trouble is Sakura is going to die, and her memories is erasing slowing. Rin says she loves Shirou right after when she has just said " we should kill Sakura.".

With that situation, every normal guy/girl will angry.
-----------------
With FHA, I wonder if we can say they are the same character?

[Triple accel 555]

The trouble is Sakura is going to die, and her memories is erasing slowing. Rin says she loves Shirou right after when she has just said " we should kill Sakura.".

With that situation, every normal guy/girl will angry.

Exactly. Even with that situation Sakura still hesitate to kill Rin. Sakura get corrupted but still has some kindness that why she order Saber not to kill Shirou.

Nightmare II showed Sakura was fighting back against it and scared of the visions she was getting, and Chess showed her hope to get through things was holding the Shadow back. Which is why Zouken trolled her. So her mind would die under the strain and he can take her body.

She had issues, but she was trying to deal with a ton of shit along the way. More than most people could handle in a lifetime, and without any therapy since fuck that, magi don't need therapists. If you really expected someone who was experimented on since they were four when hooked into All the World's Evil without their knowledge. Being the grail really kind of messed her up and she was saying strange things and getting information she shouldn't know because of it? Zouken made her specifically so she would break down and her mind would be destroyed so he could take her body and use the grail's power.

Further, AM didn't work upon her repressed emotions, it worked on upping her bitterness and taking root in it. For instance, she had to convince herself that killing Rin was the right thing to do and even when she "kidnapped" Ilya, Ilya herself said that Sakura was barely holding on, but they talked together while she babbling through madness and that was what got the group the various information on what to do next.

Additionally, when she kidnaps Ilya, Ilya says Sakura told her about the knowledge floating around about AM and she was allowed to roam free around the castle without guards or anything, which she explains to the gang later on. She does a lot of stalling for a person who really wants to kill everyone.

Ilya even confirmed said this.
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20364/

You know about it, Ilya…!? You know what that shadow is, and what Sakura's possessed by…!?"
"Yeah. I got the information out of Sakura, so I understand what's going on.
What we have to do. What, exactly, you've made into your enemy

The reason why Sakura accepted Shadow.

[kohaku]

That is the trouble.

Follow the normal motip, it is the story about a tragic character finally become the vengeance, and will destroy the world.

However, I don't know why, Nasu actually writes the story about how the good/tragic character trying to not become the vengeance. But he never writes deep enough to show about that points in HF route ( we only understand it if we reading while checking the story's setting).

------------
Many antifans hate the way Sakura never totally become the vengeance character,too.

[Altima of the Gates]

Well that is just people being edgy. Some harbor disappointment that Medusa isn't completely a monster either, because they are attracted to that aspect.

What Nasu was going for is a victim who becomes a perpetrator. But also said he wanted to frame it from the perspective of an abused person being made a sacrifice.
Sakura when we get interludes is always arguing with herself, saying things like she shouldn't feel certain things because she will lose other things she values. Or saying that its fine to be in the dark like this because she is a heretic, but loathing that she will die like a dog after over a decade of abuse because of other people's mistakes.
So she is a fatalistic person that understands the situation that she is in, but isn't deluded enough to be completely happy with being a sacrifice, so she has a more raw type of feeling. She actively accepts her depression, so in that way she is different from Kohaku, Shirou and Taiga just softened that hardness, but its still there. Hell, they even use it for comedy with the Zero Hanafuda game where loli Sakura is fucking savage. When Tokiomi and Kariya say she would end up bustier than Aoi, she gets a disgusted face that definitely doesn't fit a five year old lol.


But back on point, there was one scene where it is definitely true that she enjoyed toying with Rin, in that scene tripleaccel mentioned before, she argues with herself that she HAS to finish off Rin now, which you would have no need to do if you'd just wanted to kill her from the outset. Also, Saber Alter says that Sakura wants Shirou to live. So she isn't just someone who loves slaughter. Its funny, but before Nasu came out for the UBW anime Q&A, and said that Sakura would do something to stop the Bloodfort had she known Shinji's plans beforehand, there are people who believe that she is just faking being decent and wants to slaughter everyone.
It doesn't even dawn on people that she upfrontly told Shirou how cold and depressed she was in the past completely candidly very early on in HF. You don't normally tell the person you want to date "yeah, the first time we met I was pissed as hell one day and wanted this boy I met to fail and give up." Doesn't make you look cute at all, but she says it anyway.
And as tripleaccel did mention for Rin during her explanation of the high jump scene, Sakura had a pretty normal knee-jerk response but the important part a lot of people miss because they go "lol yandere lol" or the "nothing is my fault" is her spitting out black blood, again arguing with herself again, and not taking into context that Rin all but confessed to Shirou, while her body is throughly trashed, doing a 180 past the happy vibe instantly and trying to convince Shirou to kill her. In the VN, Sakura was in bed and her shadow allowed her to passively overhear accidentally in the living room from the outbuilding that Rin couldn't detect. Which goddamn Nasu, how many passive things do you allow Imaginary Numbers to do but don't showcase it? This girl could be the best spy.
But anyway, the movie was different in that she was in the hall and could hear it. The point though is that for two weeks of constant agony, she coped pretty well on this point considering the circumstances, especially when Ilya shows up right after to say she should be a vegetable right now who doesn't even know her own name. There is just a lot of nuance in the story you miss if you aren't paying attention.

@Spoony - I mean yeah, it could all be Kibisis, but the dialogue seemed to have parts that would be funny if it was just a magically enforced delusion, and it mirrors something that Sakura does say about wanting Medusa to be more relaxed with her. Plus it would be weird as her active Master if she didn't feel something going on with her using all that magical energy.

[kohaku]

It is funny to know that we can change Element from Water to Hollow.

The more novels they write, the more the reason about Sealing Designation become ridiculous.

[Menwearpink]

I dunno seems very unrelated to me?

also it’s more hollow to water.

[kohaku]

In Case File vol 3, Trisha have Element is Water, but she changed it to Hollow.

[madarra]

Is Trisha missing any of the things Tokiomi said you need to not get specimen'd?

Thats assuming that hollow to water and water to hollow are the same thing and not the equivalent of "jumping into a lake and then jumping into a fire" and "jumping into a fire and then jumping into a lake"

[kohaku]

Sanda update his information about Trisha
( Damn, I hate it. They sometime will not write these important information in the novel or source material, but just in some interviews, or even twitter):

https://twitter.com/makoto_sanda/sta...86095500505088

【訂正】『ロード・エルメロイⅡ世の事件簿material』初版分に誤植が判明しました。p104、トリ シャの項目ですが、


誤：属性は水。
→
正：属性は水（だが、希少な素養のあった虚数に転向）。


となります。
間桐桜と逆なのを、後から（）で表そうとして確認し損ねたのですね。申し訳ありません。

use google translation to read:

[Correction] A typographical error was found in the first edition of "The Case Files of Lord Elmeroi II material". It is an item of p104, Trisha,


Wrong: The attribute is water.
→
Correct: The attribute is water (but converted to an imaginary number with a rare background).


It will be.
You failed to confirm the opposite of Sakura Matou when you tried to express it in () later. I'm sorry.

[Byegod]

It is funny to know that we can change Element from Water to Hollow.

The more novels they write, the more the reason about Sealing Designation become ridiculous.

What do you mean? can you elaborate on why its ridiculous?

[kohaku]

What do you mean? can you elaborate on why its ridiculous?

SD are edicts handed down by the Mage's Association to maintain and protect special thaumaturgical abilities which cannot be acquired through study.

If we can study Hollow through study, no way Sakura can get SD as Tokiomi said.

[You]

If Tokiomi thought Sakura was going to get sealed why would he send her to the Clock Tower to be taught properly in the first place?



He was scared she'd get kidnapped by not-so-good people (there are a lot of those in the world) who would use her for their ulterior motives and therefore sent her to a trusted family who could protect her from those not-so-good people because he felt like he could not.
It just turned out the trusted family was not-so-good.

[kohaku]

If we talk about SD. Rin should in a more dangerous situation than Sakura.


Because Sakura's Element is Hollow, it isn't easy to discover her Element ( look at how Rin checks Shirou's Element. It is very easy.).


But with Rin. You just need one hour to find that she has 5 Elements.


That means the MA's school doesn't check their pupils' Element,too. If they do, Rin would be caught when studying at their school already.

He was scared she'd get kidnapped by not-so-good people (there are a lot of those in the world) who would use her for their ulterior motives and therefore sent her to a trusted family who could protect her from those not-so-good people because he felt like he could not.
It just turned out the trusted family was not-so-good.

From the beginning, he doesn't trust Zouken at all. ( Kirei says when he eating mapo). But follow FZ, he believe that Zouken will help Sakura becomes Matou's heir and the Magus.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Doesn't Rin having five elements simply mean that she has affinity with all five? Magi who only have one affinity doesn't mean that they can't use the other four, it's more like they're better at said element than others.

Sure, it makes her special, but not special enough to warrant a SD personally.

[kohaku]

I just say that: Follow Tokiomi's logic, Rin actually in more dangerous situation than Sakura.

[aldeayeah]

They were both in danger if untrained, Tokiomi thought. But since Rin was going to be trained as a successor, the point was moot in her case.

[forumghost]

I mean the real problem with Tokiomi's logic was that he thought the 500 year old vampire made of rape worms was someone he could trust with his daughter. Nobody bitches about Apoc!Tokiomi, who also gave away his younger daughter, because the Edelfelt actually hold up their end of the bargan

[kohaku]

And the answer about how Tokiomi think about Zouken/ worms rape/ Sakura's suffer.

They store it in the Interview de Gen UROBUCHI à l'Épitanime 2013. Summary, he doesn't care as long as these method help Sakura stronger.

Why he doesn't store it in the source material instead? I feel pity to that Tokiomi's Chinese fangirl on Zhihu.
She is good person. But as same as Rin, she believes that " everything is the misunderstanding.". Poor girl.