Page 10 of 14 FirstFirst ... 589101112 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 273

Thread: Sakura's problem: I still confuse about Magic Crest and Sealing designations.

  1. #181
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    https://twitter.com/LickYouTie
    Posts
    34,133
    JP Friend Code
    101043939
    Blog Entries
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon View Post
    Judging by his interactions with Kariya, tokiomi seems to desdain the matous and their magecraft, or maybe he just dsdain Kariya for being a "desertor" , but his reaction to the insects and stuff was pretty much "pathetic" , i guess he tought te matous were so pathetic that sakura would improve their line greatly and they should be eternally grateful?
    However, such a pain is nothing when compared to the hatred that tore and gnawed at Kariya's heart.

    " - It looks like you've changed, Matō Kariya."

    Sharp, narrowing eyes that looked as though they were pitying; Tōsaka Tokiomi's showed his ease before battle and deliberately taunted Kariya.

    "Discarding the way of magecraft, yet still longing after the Holy Grail and even returning to it in a form like this... Your shameful sight alone would be enough to cause slander of degradation of the Matō family."

    ...

    Faced with Kariya, who was gritting his teeth, Tokiomi merely gave a cold glance and called out mockingly.

    "It's a waste to tell you anyways. You are someone who doesn't understand the nobility of the way of magecraft at all, and had left the way and betrayed the art."
    Awkward phrasing aside. I'll have to check the runes later. Tokiomi here is weirdly reverent towards the Matou family and says Kariya's pathetic figure slanders it. As if implying Kariya doesn't deserve to be in the Matou family which, in Tokiomi's opinion, isn't degenerating at all.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  2. #182
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors TheSeaDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    1,282
    Thanks, maybe i need to check zero novel,, tbe anime is not that clear in several topics

  3. #183
    吸血鬼 Vampire kohaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    32
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    118
    By the way , how you guys imagine tokiomis reaction if he found out everything about sakura? We know by word of god he would not mind the training itsef, but just the fact she was...not being actually trained at all. I certanly dont imagine a "what you did to my daughter, monster" but more a straight faced..." That was not the deal, the matou dont have honor" obviously, i dont mean honor as in chivalry , like diarmuid, but "mage honor" and he would not show much rage or any strong emotion for that matter, maybe challenge zouken to a duel or something
    Tokiomi' reaction?

    " You say if 50 000 men and animal gangrape my daughter for 10 years, she will become as strong as Aoko? Amazing."

    That is Magus' logic. So, he won't has any problem, even if he seen a sea of worms are gangraping Sakura. May be he will has little shock - as same as Rin in day 8. But it isn't enough for him to save Sakura.

    -------------
    But if he know that Zouken doesn't teach anything to Sakura, he will get mad and take his daughter back. However, I think it is too late already, with the Core Worms and worms inside her. Who know, he maybe will kills his daughter "for her mercy"?

    And, even if he take back her daughter, he will just continue send Sakura away, to any other family who " I want a heir." again, and again.

    -------------

    The only happy solution for Sakura is:


    - Tokiomi teach her the basic magecraft.
    - Move his family to some mountains, where they can practice their power in secret.
    - When Sakura can control her power, enough to live as the normal people. They can return to Fuyuki.


    I think it is the difference between " control it" and " become the master of Hollow". You don't actually need Magic Crest or the Hollow teacher to just control it.


    Sakura in HF totally study to control Hollow by herself.

    But Tokiomi never wants Sakura live as the normal people, he wants her become the great Magus.
    Last edited by kohaku; January 13th, 2021 at 10:43 PM.

  4. #184
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors TheSeaDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by kohaku View Post
    Tokiomi' reaction?

    " You say if 50 000 men and animal gangrape my daughter for 10 years, she will become as strong as Aoko? Amazing."

    That is Magus' logic. So, he won't has any problem, even if he seen a sea of worms are gangraping Sakura. May be he will has little shock - as same as Rin in day 8. But it isn't enough for him to save Sakura.

    -------------
    But if he know that Zouken doesn't teach anything to Sakura, he will get mad and take his daughter back. However, I think it is too late already, which the Core Worms and worms inside her. Who know, he maybe will kills his daughter "for her mercy"?
    i Can see him doing that . However, the big problem in HF was angra who turned her into a time bomb, if is just about the worms maybe any competent church member could take care of it? Tokiomi is bud with the church, and Risei would be grossed out by zouken methods, probably

    Oter thing in my mind. What if tokiomi summoned a loyal yet competent servant instead of Gil, one that would not betray him and corrupt his disciple? Lest say he keeps the class, a Chiron, for example
    Last edited by TheSeaDragon; January 13th, 2021 at 10:47 PM.

  5. #185
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Awkward phrasing aside. I'll have to check the runes later. Tokiomi here is weirdly reverent towards the Matou family and says Kariya's pathetic figure slanders it. As if implying Kariya doesn't deserve to be in the Matou family which, in Tokiomi's opinion, isn't degenerating at all.
    He has to be aware of the declining quality of succeeding generations of Matou heirs, though, otherwise they wouldn't have so readily accepted his offer. Besides, they literally live down the hill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  6. #186
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by kohaku View Post
    But Tokiomi never wants Sakura live as the normal people, he wants her become the great Magus.
    Well yes, but he does have the solid point that those with high magic potential have Stando user gravity, meaning they can never avoid the Moonlit World entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  7. #187
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    https://twitter.com/LickYouTie
    Posts
    34,133
    JP Friend Code
    101043939
    Blog Entries
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    He has to be aware of the declining quality of succeeding generations of Matou heirs, though, otherwise they wouldn't have so readily accepted his offer. Besides, they literally live down the hill.
    Maybe he's like, they've got sakura now to help! They don't need a failure like you anymore kariya~n
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
    I don't think it was ever mentioned who the heirs were and Luvia's sister isn't talked about much anyway(do we even know how old she is?).
    She is blood related to them, so likely an instance where someone who wasn't would basically be Sola # 2, they figured something out if she is that happy.
    Nasu endorsed it that Luvia would be glad to have her, so who knows?
    Luvia and her sister are twins. Also the sister doesn't show up in Case Files, but she does get mentioned there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Case Files mats
    The Edelfelt family are a rarity among magus families, taking the name of Scales in that they produce a pair of twins in each generation that both become magi. As such, of course, Luvia has a younger twin sister. As the complete polar opposite of Luvia, she is an introvert with an elemental affinity of Fire. Her marriage has already been arranged, and it is a thing of mutual love.

  9. #189
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Maybe he's like, they've got sakura now to help! They don't need a failure like you anymore kariya~n
    That's kinda what I thought. I was a bit confused when you seemingly suggested he didn't think the Matous had degenerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  10. #190
    吸血鬼 Vampire kohaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    32
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    118
    Well yes, but he does have the solid point that those with high magic potential have Stando user gravity, meaning they can never avoid the Moonlit World entirely.
    Shiki Ryougi should fear about Sealing Designation than Sakura.


    As long as you can keep your power in secret, you have nothing to fear. Secret is the most important point.


    Rin goes to study in Britain, working side by side with they people. No one discovers and arrests her until now. Look at how she checks Shirou's element. it is actually very simple, and no one test her.


    Kiritsugu's father? He doesn't need even a natural power as Hollow to be hunted. So, if they discovered, not even Zouken or Tokiomi can protect Sakura and Rin.


    ----------------------------


    From the beginning, the best way to avoid the trouble is asking U.S.A and NATO to declare war and massacre these Magus.

  11. #191
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by alienncoww View Post
    Luvia and her sister are twins. Also the sister doesn't show up in Case Files, but she does get mentioned there.
    This makes the Apo situation with Sakura all the more intriguing. I doubt she's the heir, but the Edelfelts seemingly raised her well, since she became another wrestling ojou and tag teams with Luvia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kohaku View Post
    Shiki Ryougi should fear about Sealing Designation than Sakura.


    As long as you can keep your power in secret, you have nothing to fear. Secret is the most important point.


    Rin goes to study in Britain, working side by side with they people. No one discovers and arrests her until now. Look at how she checks Shirou's element. it is actually very simple, and no one test her.


    Kiritsugu's father? He doesn't need even a natural power as Hollow to be hunted. So, if they discovered, not even Zouken or Tokiomi can protect Sakura and Rin.


    ----------------------------


    From the beginning, the best way to avoid the trouble is asking U.S.A and NATO to declare war and massacre these Magus.
    Shiki Ryougi absolutely still stumbled her way into Araya's plan, partially because he sook her out and partially because fate, and her very nature caused her to get the MEoDP in the first place, kind of like how JoJo protagonists get dragged into the plot, especially Jolyne in Part 6.

    There's also Ciel's magical super potential that got her scouted by Roa as a host, and even when she doesn't become a Roa host in Fate worlds, I think Nasu still hints she becomes something special.

    Moreover, Rin had the protection of a magus family heir and Crest, so no one would go after her for making her a Sealed Magus. That being said, her life is still quite eventful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  12. #192
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    https://twitter.com/LickYouTie
    Posts
    34,133
    JP Friend Code
    101043939
    Blog Entries
    69
    Luvia’s sister is supposed to be a frail ojousama so she can’t tag team with Luvia. Rumour has it that her fiancÚ is known as the masked king of snipers who goes by the name of Sogeking.
    Last edited by You; January 13th, 2021 at 11:37 PM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  13. #193
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Is this real? Also, is her sister not the co-heir even in FSN worlds because she's a frail ojou-sama?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  14. #194
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    https://twitter.com/LickYouTie
    Posts
    34,133
    JP Friend Code
    101043939
    Blog Entries
    69

    you tell me
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  15. #195
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Not sure what to make of that, but it seems like they know what the score is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  16. #196
    吸血鬼 Vampire kohaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    32
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    118
    Moreover, Rin had the protection of a magus family heir and Crest, so no one would go after her for making her a Sealed Magus. That being said, her life is still quite eventful.
    when Tokiomi say about "Magus family's protection + Crest". I think he actually mean: It made my daughter stronger to protect themselves as the great Magus.

    Family and Crest themselves can't protect anyone.

    Kiritsugu's father is the family heir + Magic Crest, and MA still gives him Sealing Designation because of his research.

  17. #197
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Family + Crest is to protect the kids from being taken at random by the association and cover them legally so long as they follow Association rules, and training them in magecraft is done because they are so abnormal, they can never live fully normal lives and tend to bend destiny around them. I think you misunderstand what kind of danger I refer to. Sealing Designations are only a small part of it, and like with how Stand users meet other Stand users and usually get into fights, those with magic potential find themselves involved in supernatural events and typically don't live restful lives, even if they're never trained as magi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  18. #198
    吸血鬼 Vampire kohaku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    32
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    118
    i don't think so.

    In the normal end, Sakura live as the normal people for many year. Nothing happened.
    Kiritsugu's father isn't someone uses his potions to corrupt a town. So, he isn't violent Magus law about "secret" at all. But for some reasons, MA knows about his research, and they hunt him.

    = > Summary, no matter if you follow MA's law/ have Magic Crest and are the family's heir. If they want to hunt you, they will.

    by the way, Tokiomi fear about Sealing Designation more than random Magus.
    If you talk about Magus, the idea of giving your daughter away just as same as " I fear that these Magus will kidnap my daughter. So, I give my daughter to one of them.".

    ---------------

    If you look at Case File - vol.2

    That Iselma family is the Grand, and Atrum still attack them.

    from the beginning, the only law of Magus is " power". It isn't exist what is " protection of the family" or " protection of the Magic Crest". If we call it is "law of protection", it actually is " your family is so strong and your Magic Crest is powerful. So, no one dare to attacksyou."
    Last edited by kohaku; January 14th, 2021 at 01:26 AM.

  19. #199
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six madarra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Age
    29
    Posts
    3,618
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    This makes the Apo situation with Sakura all the more intriguing. I doubt she's the heir, but the Edelfelts seemingly raised her well, since she became another wrestling ojou and tag teams with Luvia.
    .
    Judging via Apo is iffy cuz we dont know what happened . Like didnt normal timeline Tohsakas steal like 1/3 of the Edelfelt crest in the war + maybe have babies together, while Apo Fion wrecked shop to the point Zouken is dead .Maybe Apo Tohsaka just ended up hitching up with the other sister or something or didnt steal the crest so Rin has to learn Kung fu root hunting rather than gems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    normal End Sakura is still the heir to matou with its assumed protection.

  20. #200
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wherever there's Wi-Fi
    Age
    22
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    Judging via Apo is iffy cuz we dont know what happened . Like didnt normal timeline Tohsakas steal like 1/3 of the Edelfelt crest in the war + maybe have babies together, while Apo Fion wrecked shop to the point Zouken is dead .Maybe Apo Tohsaka just ended up hitching up with the other sister or something or didnt steal the crest so Rin has to learn Kung fu root hunting rather than gems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    normal End Sakura is still the heir to matou with its assumed protection.
    I don't see why Tokiomi's parents wouldn't have hooked up in the same way, since that could happen even if Darnic came with the Nazis, stole the Greater Grail, and killed Zouken. Also, the gems are also base Tohsaka magecraft from Zelrecht.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kohaku View Post
    i don't think so.

    In the normal end, Sakura live as the normal people for many year. Nothing happened.
    Kiritsugu's father isn't someone uses his potions to corrupt a town. So, he isn't violent Magus law about "secret" at all. But for some reasons, MA knows about his research, and they hunt him.

    = > Summary, no matter if you follow MA's law/ have Magic Crest and are the family's heir. If they want to hunt you, they will.

    by the way, Tokiomi fear about Sealing Designation more than random Magus.
    If you talk about Magus, the idea of giving your daughter away just as same as " I fear that these Magus will kidnap my daughter. So, I give my daughter to one of them.".

    ---------------

    If you look at Case File - vol.2

    That Iselma family is the Grand, and Atrum still attack them.

    from the beginning, the only law of Magus is " power". It isn't exist what is " protection of the family" or " protection of the Magic Crest". If we call it is "law of protection", it actually is " your family is so strong and your Magic Crest is powerful. So, no one dare to attacksyou."
    Also, no one ever said family membership is an instant shield, just that it provides institutional standing and resources to fall back on in case of danger. Without that backing or standing, it's even worse.

    Also, no matter what, Sakura is a pseudo-Second Owner of a backwater town. Of course her life would be easier, though she seems competent enough to the point where Rin could send her granddaughter to ostensibly learn from Sakura.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •