People forget that the first thing we see in shiros POV after the fire flashback is sakuras face when she wake him up
People forget that the first thing we see in shiros POV after the fire flashback is sakuras face when she wake him up
This is the main problem with magi that TM works love to explore, and I find it interesting how Nasu + Urobuchi and Sanda deal with it differently. For the former two, magi are forced into the ordinary world, and their magus-like detachment from ordinary human experience leads to their downfall, as they are not equipped to deal with the messier aspects of human life. For Sanda in CF, we are in the mages' world, but a major theme is that the humanity of mages gets in the way of their goals. Either way, it is abundantly clear that mages' inability to account for their humanity or the humanity of others leads to complications.Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates
Of course, the magus way of life is another human way of living, just one that is adjusted for the pursuit of Mystery/Mystics by discarding a lot of other vital parts of the human experience.
As for Sakura, she's more of a spellcaster than a mage based on how you described her relationship with magecraft.
Its basically that they trip over things that most would be able to avoid. Like not fostering love in a family is like asking for its destruction.
It was pretty ironic how Sakura made an offhand comment that she would rather be the cleric of the group when there was a joke about having two magi and two familiar formation when they cleaned Rin's house in Hollow.
Based on her demeanor and miko like outfit with Imaginary Around, I'd surmise she would probably be happier as a cleric than a magus. She and Shirou do seem to have similiar methodologies about balancing magecraft and daily life when you see that talk they had with Medea.
Oh and to add onto an earlier conversation. Since Nasu basically admitted recently that CCC was partly a venture to get Sakura more exposure, and him literally finding out that actually giving her exposure in the first place was the key, I might just have to say the 'Shroom just didn't take seriously the advice people were giving him.
Didn't Takeuchi (who is no Sakura fan himself) literally say "hey bro, stop memeing on her for a second, its not good" and Nasu just went "lol, what's the harm?" makes me think the guy must be slightly inept if he was thinking these things the whole time. Like that blurb about how he was surprised about HF's reception, then in Hollow how he was satisfied with Sakura as a character, then he made CCC because he wasn't satisfied.
What do you all think? Its jumbled in my head now thinking back to all these years, do you think he was honestly troubled, or was there such a consistent support for Sakura over a long time he just had to stop memeing at one point for marketing purposes?
Last edited by Altima of the Gates; January 16th, 2021 at 08:28 AM.
- what the writer wants to write.
- what the writer really write.
I write an analysis before ( in my native language) about the writer and their novels. In summary, we can collect information about the writer, and find these elements which influenced him. However, we shouldn't too serious about " what the writer wants to write.". Even his idea will change. Nasu in 2021 isn't Nasu in 2004 anymore. I don't think he really remembers what he actually thought during 2004.
I love FSN and HF. It isn't mean I have favor Nasu.
What are we know about him?
- I think he is lazy ( look at how he remake Tsukihime),
- and he doesn't really serious about his work ( his idea about parallel timeline just the way he uses to write novel while don't care about " is this idea fix with my other novels?").
- And I actually don't really believe in his humanism ( although he exactly better than these female writers who keep write about fantasy rape as something " romance/love story.".).
The Interview is good. However, it only useful when it fix with these informations from the novel itself.
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A rape survivor talk to me that she never believe Nasu, because he shows himself as the blaming-victim ( The Interview about Utena).
Last edited by kohaku; January 16th, 2021 at 12:06 PM.
Does nurturing his franchises count as lazy?
TsukiRe announced in 2008
2009-2010 Fate Extra
2011 Mahoyo
2013 Fate Extra CCC
2014 UBW supervision?
2015 FGO supervision ?
2016 FGO chapters writen by him + Fate Extella
2017 writing Last Encore probably
2018 FGO 2 supervision? and Extella Link
2019 idk something to pin on him directly but probably still supervised HF movies and the legion of authors that write under him
2020 idk...maybe FGO 5 year anniversary and supervision, maybe actually working on TsukiRE
don't know how to say.
He moved from the writer to the manager.
I don't want to force him to write when he doesn't/ or can't want to write. May be he reached to his limit with FSN already.
But, 10 years for Tsukihime remake is too slow to me.
I don't know why, but very many guys favor Shirou's hero of justice idea, while actually it is insane and will soon corrupt.
if humanity follows Kiritsugu's idea, it isn't human anymore. It is hell.
- Look at Nazi, who kills these people with disabilities in order to save their country from waste more money on these " useless" guys.
- And look at any famine, while many people refuse to kill and eat each other, instead kill some to feed many?
Community is the system. Everyone has the responsibility to each other, everyone takes care of each other. If you keep follow Utilitarianism, you will soon become Devil, not a hero. If we keep following Utilitarianism, why we humans have to improve welfare and medicine?
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Everyone supports Shirou's idea just because he thinks it is beautiful, and he too believes it that even us want to believe as him. And, no one really thinks about the situation when they become the one who should be killed to save many others.
I think about the story where God orders humanity to play his game:
- We have to kill 2/3 of humanity to save 1/3.
- If humanity doesn't agree. God will add 1% of humanity in the list " has to kill to save the humanity until the next time - when God asks the same question again.".
And we will see how many of us really prepared for the Shirou's dream. And the hell created by his dream.
Kohaku, i understand you but im sure english is not your native tongue. Dont worry, same with me
What surprises me is how a lot of people in Fate discussions still arge for utilitarism when both FSN and zero show us how flawed it is. I could blame "edgy" zero fans but is not that simple.
Maybe I should buy a Grammarly's premium account.
Havard university's students discuss about utilitarism. Many examples show us how awful it actually is:
Instead of following Rin to the Clock Tower, someone needs to help Shirou a seat on Havard, to cure him from his idea/nightmare.
Last edited by kohaku; January 17th, 2021 at 01:29 AM.
You have to look into the idea of a Seigi no Mikata as a concept how it is used in media. Like in the Tokusatsu type shows where kids shows see the heroes blow away the monsters, but at the cost of many civilians. Some western versions don't see the civvies getting roasted, but originally its there.
An ally of justice isn't automatically a protector of good or the people, its the protector of an ideal, like a force of nature which isn't meant to be framed as good or evil. Likely why EMIYA is given this immensely very enigmatic type of outlooks, sometimes even shunning people entirely outside of just tsundere-ness(there is also an interesting conversation with Karen in Hollow about Shirou's dreams vs. Reality as well too).
They used Amagi Kouga for this concept in a darker storyline with Zetman, but its a well worn concept. Its meant to show how being one minded-ly focused on preserving an ideal can have catastrophic consequences. Though the ideal is beautiful on paper, its difficult and murky in execution because reality is not as ordered so the pieces don't just fall where it wants. Kiritsugu wanted to essentially wanted to bore out the part of man in our free will that enabled "evil" but that means also tearing out desires.
Nasu shows us two instances that he "reaches" the end of the ideal or accomplishes it in some form (a blurb at the end of UBW True, and Last Episode), but has no details, why he was really satisfied, or how he got there, so its meant to have us discuss and debate what would be satisfying for him. And while Nasu does waffle on it a lot, he says HF is an answer Shirou comes to, and is also supposed to promote discussion on Shirou's development as a person. Its not supposed to give you a "this is how Shirou definitely should live", there are paths. Hell, since there is such a lack of details, you don't know how Shirou handled problems down the road in either Fate or UBW, nor if later on Shirou amd Sakura could become partners in heroic endeavors post HF (she does say in HF that she would enjoy being his partner and he as well would love to train with her).
So its on us to discuss, because that is what the author likes to do.
Last edited by Altima of the Gates; January 17th, 2021 at 07:54 AM.
I imagine the scene where Shirou UBW will shoot down his daughter and kill his wife-Rin, as same as his father in FZ.
The best way to understand Shirou-Fate and Shirou-UBW is to put them in that situation. They have to choose between their lovers and other peoples.
Although both Shirou-Fate and Shirou-UBW talk about their idea. No one among them faces that situation. It just as a child keeps talking about how cool the soldier is. We believe in him, so we believe " soldier is very cool" until when we really go to the battlefield.
Last edited by kohaku; January 17th, 2021 at 08:29 AM.
Huh, that is a fascinating history on the whole seigi no mikata ideal, and an interesting take on how the hero of justice isn't exactly a protector of people, but of the abstract ideal of justice.
- - - Updated - - -
You realize Kiritsugu shooting the Iri and Ilya projections is when he chose to abandon that ideal, right? When faced with the deadly consequences of said ideal at its logical conclusion, he couldn't countenance that and refused it.
As for Shirou-UBW being faced with a situation like that, he already had prolonged exposure to the end result of his ideal, Archer, and rejected that conclusion, so I think if Shirou decides that doing such a thing would make him like Archer, he'd refuse.
Sorry for off-topic, but can you explain to me how literature is taught in your country?
In my country, the government/schools choose these novels/poems from my country’s famous writers. They even analyze these novels and teach us “ you have to understand/feeling this novel follow this way.”.
That is why it is very funny everytime I read the exam’s question: “ how you feel/ understand about this novel.” While we always actually just rewrite what they teach us.
During two months until now, I begin to read and analyze my most favorite visual novel. It is wonderful. I use all of my knowledge about literature to analyze my favorite novel. I discuss with everyone on reddit, youtube, beast lair forum, read Chinese's zhihu forum,... and gain more knowledge thank to everyone ( include even HF's anti fans). I wonder why we never are taught to study literature like this in school. " Choose your most favorite novel and analyze it.".
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So. Can you tell me how the literature is taught in your country? Are they teach you follow the same way as my country?
At least in the US, there is a less overt sense of "you have to view the novel this way" type thing, though I suppose that depends on the teacher, because the curriculum for most states and districts doesn't seemingly dictate such things. When we wrote English essays in high school, we did tend to repeat what analysis our teachers guided us through, but there was wiggle room. Also, things like SparkNotes do influence how we analyze literature in class.
That being said, the modes of analysis I learned there and in college when I took several history and religious studies courses probably help me analyze my favorite anime, manga, and VNs. That, and TVTropes.
So, even in the US, they still give you the novel and ask you to analyze it?
You don't have freedom to choose the novel which you want to analyze?
Depends on the class, teacher, and state/district curriculum. Sometimes you get to pick one out of 3 novels, but they're still in the reading list, and very rarely, you were able to pick your own book to analyze.
it is the nightmare. You have to analyze the novel which you don't really like/hate.
No matter what. Thank you for the information. ^^
Being exposed to things outside your general interests is good, though, particularly if those things are considered (rightly or wrongly) foundational to your culture.
That is why I never satisfield with HF Normal End.After the Holy Grail War is over, Sakura and Ilya will be here making breakfast without worry.I'll pay any price for such a wish to come true
If Nasu want us readers feel sad, he will try his best, and don't really care about logic ( Illya still there).
I understand.Being exposed to things outside your general interests is good, though, particularly if those things are considered (rightly or wrongly) foundational to your culture.
But it is very funny when almost the knowledge you learned in school is just propaganda.
I learn almost all of my country's culture through my self-studying.
And finally I discovered my country's most famous writer just another version of Gen the Butcher, instead the Humanism as they teach us.
finally, I discovered.
It is day 11. Sakura says:
Some guys use this sentences as the evidence to say " the worms pit actually isn't terrible as you think"." I was adopted by the Matou family for that reason alone. If I hadn't been able to succeed them, I would have died."""
"Oh, please don't make a face like that. The teaching was certainly strict, but it wasn't as tough as you may think."
"And if you want to talk about strictness, it's not even close to your training.""
But actually, in this part, Sakura just says this to comfort Shirou.
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