Sakura's problem: I still confuse about Magic Crest and Sealing designations.

[You]

Judging by his interactions with Kariya, tokiomi seems to desdain the matous and their magecraft, or maybe he just dsdain Kariya for being a "desertor" , but his reaction to the insects and stuff was pretty much "pathetic" , i guess he tought te matous were so pathetic that sakura would improve their line greatly and they should be eternally grateful?

However, such a pain is nothing when compared to the hatred that tore and gnawed at Kariya's heart.

" － It looks like you've changed, Matō Kariya."

Sharp, narrowing eyes that looked as though they were pitying; Tōsaka Tokiomi's showed his ease before battle and deliberately taunted Kariya.

"Discarding the way of magecraft, yet still longing after the Holy Grail and even returning to it in a form like this... Your shameful sight alone would be enough to cause slander of degradation of the Matō family."

...

Faced with Kariya, who was gritting his teeth, Tokiomi merely gave a cold glance and called out mockingly.

"It's a waste to tell you anyways. You are someone who doesn't understand the nobility of the way of magecraft at all, and had left the way and betrayed the art."

Awkward phrasing aside. I'll have to check the runes later. Tokiomi here is weirdly reverent towards the Matou family and says Kariya's pathetic figure slanders it. As if implying Kariya doesn't deserve to be in the Matou family which, in Tokiomi's opinion, isn't degenerating at all.

[TheSeaDragon]

Thanks, maybe i need to check zero novel,, tbe anime is not that clear in several topics

[kohaku]

By the way , how you guys imagine tokiomis reaction if he found out everything about sakura? We know by word of god he would not mind the training itsef, but just the fact she was...not being actually trained at all. I certanly dont imagine a "what you did to my daughter, monster" but more a straight faced..." That was not the deal, the matou dont have honor" obviously, i dont mean honor as in chivalry , like diarmuid, but "mage honor" and he would not show much rage or any strong emotion for that matter, maybe challenge zouken to a duel or something

Tokiomi' reaction?

" You say if 50 000 men and animal gangrape my daughter for 10 years, she will become as strong as Aoko? Amazing."

That is Magus' logic. So, he won't has any problem, even if he seen a sea of worms are gangraping Sakura. May be he will has little shock - as same as Rin in day 8. But it isn't enough for him to save Sakura.

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But if he know that Zouken doesn't teach anything to Sakura, he will get mad and take his daughter back. However, I think it is too late already, with the Core Worms and worms inside her. Who know, he maybe will kills his daughter "for her mercy"?

And, even if he take back her daughter, he will just continue send Sakura away, to any other family who " I want a heir." again, and again.

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The only happy solution for Sakura is:


- Tokiomi teach her the basic magecraft.
- Move his family to some mountains, where they can practice their power in secret.
- When Sakura can control her power, enough to live as the normal people. They can return to Fuyuki.


I think it is the difference between " control it" and " become the master of Hollow". You don't actually need Magic Crest or the Hollow teacher to just control it.


Sakura in HF totally study to control Hollow by herself.

But Tokiomi never wants Sakura live as the normal people, he wants her become the great Magus.

[TheSeaDragon]

Tokiomi' reaction?

" You say if 50 000 men and animal gangrape my daughter for 10 years, she will become as strong as Aoko? Amazing."

That is Magus' logic. So, he won't has any problem, even if he seen a sea of worms are gangraping Sakura. May be he will has little shock - as same as Rin in day 8. But it isn't enough for him to save Sakura.

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But if he know that Zouken doesn't teach anything to Sakura, he will get mad and take his daughter back. However, I think it is too late already, which the Core Worms and worms inside her. Who know, he maybe will kills his daughter "for her mercy"?

i Can see him doing that . However, the big problem in HF was angra who turned her into a time bomb, if is just about the worms maybe any competent church member could take care of it? Tokiomi is bud with the church, and Risei would be grossed out by zouken methods, probably

Oter thing in my mind. What if tokiomi summoned a loyal yet competent servant instead of Gil, one that would not betray him and corrupt his disciple? Lest say he keeps the class, a Chiron, for example

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Awkward phrasing aside. I'll have to check the runes later. Tokiomi here is weirdly reverent towards the Matou family and says Kariya's pathetic figure slanders it. As if implying Kariya doesn't deserve to be in the Matou family which, in Tokiomi's opinion, isn't degenerating at all.

He has to be aware of the declining quality of succeeding generations of Matou heirs, though, otherwise they wouldn't have so readily accepted his offer. Besides, they literally live down the hill.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

But Tokiomi never wants Sakura live as the normal people, he wants her become the great Magus.

Well yes, but he does have the solid point that those with high magic potential have Stando user gravity, meaning they can never avoid the Moonlit World entirely.

[You]

He has to be aware of the declining quality of succeeding generations of Matou heirs, though, otherwise they wouldn't have so readily accepted his offer. Besides, they literally live down the hill.

Maybe he's like, they've got sakura now to help! They don't need a failure like you anymore kariya~n

[alienncoww]

I don't think it was ever mentioned who the heirs were and Luvia's sister isn't talked about much anyway(do we even know how old she is?).
She is blood related to them, so likely an instance where someone who wasn't would basically be Sola # 2, they figured something out if she is that happy.
Nasu endorsed it that Luvia would be glad to have her, so who knows?

Luvia and her sister are twins. Also the sister doesn't show up in Case Files, but she does get mentioned there.

The Edelfelt family are a rarity among magus families, taking the name of Scales in that they produce a pair of twins in each generation that both become magi. As such, of course, Luvia has a younger twin sister. As the complete polar opposite of Luvia, she is an introvert with an elemental affinity of Fire. Her marriage has already been arranged, and it is a thing of mutual love.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Maybe he's like, they've got sakura now to help! They don't need a failure like you anymore kariya~n

That's kinda what I thought. I was a bit confused when you seemingly suggested he didn't think the Matous had degenerated.

[kohaku]

Well yes, but he does have the solid point that those with high magic potential have Stando user gravity, meaning they can never avoid the Moonlit World entirely.

Shiki Ryougi should fear about Sealing Designation than Sakura.


As long as you can keep your power in secret, you have nothing to fear. Secret is the most important point.


Rin goes to study in Britain, working side by side with they people. No one discovers and arrests her until now. Look at how she checks Shirou's element. it is actually very simple, and no one test her.


Kiritsugu's father? He doesn't need even a natural power as Hollow to be hunted. So, if they discovered, not even Zouken or Tokiomi can protect Sakura and Rin.


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From the beginning, the best way to avoid the trouble is asking U.S.A and NATO to declare war and massacre these Magus.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Luvia and her sister are twins. Also the sister doesn't show up in Case Files, but she does get mentioned there.

This makes the Apo situation with Sakura all the more intriguing. I doubt she's the heir, but the Edelfelts seemingly raised her well, since she became another wrestling ojou and tag teams with Luvia.

- - - Updated - - -

Shiki Ryougi should fear about Sealing Designation than Sakura.


As long as you can keep your power in secret, you have nothing to fear. Secret is the most important point.


Rin goes to study in Britain, working side by side with they people. No one discovers and arrests her until now. Look at how she checks Shirou's element. it is actually very simple, and no one test her.


Kiritsugu's father? He doesn't need even a natural power as Hollow to be hunted. So, if they discovered, not even Zouken or Tokiomi can protect Sakura and Rin.


----------------------------


From the beginning, the best way to avoid the trouble is asking U.S.A and NATO to declare war and massacre these Magus.

Shiki Ryougi absolutely still stumbled her way into Araya's plan, partially because he sook her out and partially because fate, and her very nature caused her to get the MEoDP in the first place, kind of like how JoJo protagonists get dragged into the plot, especially Jolyne in Part 6.

There's also Ciel's magical super potential that got her scouted by Roa as a host, and even when she doesn't become a Roa host in Fate worlds, I think Nasu still hints she becomes something special.

Moreover, Rin had the protection of a magus family heir and Crest, so no one would go after her for making her a Sealed Magus. That being said, her life is still quite eventful.

[You]

Luvia’s sister is supposed to be a frail ojousama so she can’t tag team with Luvia. Rumour has it that her fiancé is known as the masked king of snipers who goes by the name of Sogeking.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Is this real? Also, is her sister not the co-heir even in FSN worlds because she's a frail ojou-sama?

[You]

you tell me

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Not sure what to make of that, but it seems like they know what the score is.

[kohaku]

Moreover, Rin had the protection of a magus family heir and Crest, so no one would go after her for making her a Sealed Magus. That being said, her life is still quite eventful.

when Tokiomi say about "Magus family's protection + Crest". I think he actually mean: It made my daughter stronger to protect themselves as the great Magus.

Family and Crest themselves can't protect anyone.

Kiritsugu's father is the family heir + Magic Crest, and MA still gives him Sealing Designation because of his research.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Family + Crest is to protect the kids from being taken at random by the association and cover them legally so long as they follow Association rules, and training them in magecraft is done because they are so abnormal, they can never live fully normal lives and tend to bend destiny around them. I think you misunderstand what kind of danger I refer to. Sealing Designations are only a small part of it, and like with how Stand users meet other Stand users and usually get into fights, those with magic potential find themselves involved in supernatural events and typically don't live restful lives, even if they're never trained as magi.

[kohaku]

i don't think so.

In the normal end, Sakura live as the normal people for many year. Nothing happened.
Kiritsugu's father isn't someone uses his potions to corrupt a town. So, he isn't violent Magus law about "secret" at all. But for some reasons, MA knows about his research, and they hunt him.

= > Summary, no matter if you follow MA's law/ have Magic Crest and are the family's heir. If they want to hunt you, they will.

by the way, Tokiomi fear about Sealing Designation more than random Magus.
If you talk about Magus, the idea of giving your daughter away just as same as " I fear that these Magus will kidnap my daughter. So, I give my daughter to one of them.".

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If you look at Case File - vol.2

That Iselma family is the Grand, and Atrum still attack them.

from the beginning, the only law of Magus is " power". It isn't exist what is " protection of the family" or " protection of the Magic Crest". If we call it is "law of protection", it actually is " your family is so strong and your Magic Crest is powerful. So, no one dare to attacksyou."

[madarra]

This makes the Apo situation with Sakura all the more intriguing. I doubt she's the heir, but the Edelfelts seemingly raised her well, since she became another wrestling ojou and tag teams with Luvia.
.

Judging via Apo is iffy cuz we dont know what happened . Like didnt normal timeline Tohsakas steal like 1/3 of the Edelfelt crest in the war + maybe have babies together, while Apo Fion wrecked shop to the point Zouken is dead .Maybe Apo Tohsaka just ended up hitching up with the other sister or something or didnt steal the crest so Rin has to learn Kung fu root hunting rather than gems.

- - - Updated - - -

normal End Sakura is still the heir to matou with its assumed protection.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Judging via Apo is iffy cuz we dont know what happened . Like didnt normal timeline Tohsakas steal like 1/3 of the Edelfelt crest in the war + maybe have babies together, while Apo Fion wrecked shop to the point Zouken is dead .Maybe Apo Tohsaka just ended up hitching up with the other sister or something or didnt steal the crest so Rin has to learn Kung fu root hunting rather than gems.

- - - Updated - - -

normal End Sakura is still the heir to matou with its assumed protection.

I don't see why Tokiomi's parents wouldn't have hooked up in the same way, since that could happen even if Darnic came with the Nazis, stole the Greater Grail, and killed Zouken. Also, the gems are also base Tohsaka magecraft from Zelrecht.

- - - Updated - - -

i don't think so.

In the normal end, Sakura live as the normal people for many year. Nothing happened.
Kiritsugu's father isn't someone uses his potions to corrupt a town. So, he isn't violent Magus law about "secret" at all. But for some reasons, MA knows about his research, and they hunt him.

= > Summary, no matter if you follow MA's law/ have Magic Crest and are the family's heir. If they want to hunt you, they will.

by the way, Tokiomi fear about Sealing Designation more than random Magus.
If you talk about Magus, the idea of giving your daughter away just as same as " I fear that these Magus will kidnap my daughter. So, I give my daughter to one of them.".

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If you look at Case File - vol.2

That Iselma family is the Grand, and Atrum still attack them.

from the beginning, the only law of Magus is " power". It isn't exist what is " protection of the family" or " protection of the Magic Crest". If we call it is "law of protection", it actually is " your family is so strong and your Magic Crest is powerful. So, no one dare to attacksyou."

Also, no one ever said family membership is an instant shield, just that it provides institutional standing and resources to fall back on in case of danger. Without that backing or standing, it's even worse.

Also, no matter what, Sakura is a pseudo-Second Owner of a backwater town. Of course her life would be easier, though she seems competent enough to the point where Rin could send her granddaughter to ostensibly learn from Sakura.