How hard would be the Nasuverse degradation in just one week? Would he ruin Tsuki too?

[Mattias]

I'm honestly still hung up on the "any character you can rename after yourself is a SI" point. Which would includes all Final Fantasy characters up to 10.

Also it's a bit weird that someone who stans Castoria so hard and has so much cash to burn on fanwank dick measuring contests in other unrelated games, doesn't even have Lalter. Well, unless you're another LVL.

[Reverse_side98]

I think the whole SI thing really only works if you want it to. Every character is self insertable to a certain extent tho many people also mistakes emphatizing with self inserting. They're a minority but ive seen some guys say shirou and shiki are SIs just because there's options on their games

If you do try to get out of Guda's shoes, all that's left is a generic mc with generic traits and not much else. While they've been certainly adding some things now, that's the only part ill consider bad writing simply for the fact that why only now and after 4+ years? That and the inconsistent writing.

Other than that i do agree with everyone that you dont really need every single female character thirsting for an MCs dick to make a story unless you're fully commiting to making multiple routes which FGO is not. At the end of the day, its shounen or romantic comedy writing, which i wont deny FGO seems to be using to appeal to casuals. Besides i hardly find the appeal in most guda ships anyway when only one party comprise 90% of the actual conversations

So i dont find any NTR in lb6 simply for 1)no one has an actual relationship beyond close friends and 2)any castoria-muramasa moments, if there were any, is blindingly played for fanservice and nostalgia only.

[AAM1232]

I think the whole SI thing really only works if you want it to. Every character is self insertable to a certain extent tho many people also mistakes emphatizing with self inserting. They're a minority but ive seen some guys say shirou and shiki are SIs just because there's options on their games

If you do try to get out of Guda's shoes, all that's left is a generic mc with generic traits and not much else. While they've been certainly adding some things now, that's the only part ill consider bad writing simply for the fact that why only now and after 4+ years? That and the inconsistent writing.

Other than that i do agree with everyone that you dont really need every single female character thirsting for an MCs dick to make a story unless you're fully commiting to making multiple routes which FGO is not. At the end of the day, its shounen or romantic comedy writing, which i wont deny FGO seems to be using to appeal to casuals. Besides i hardly find the appeal in most guda ships anyway when only one party comprise 90% of the actual conversations

You're pretty much right with Fujimaru as a character outside of the self inserting. While I don't mind saying I like them, it's definitely not good that they're only starting to get some visible development now rather than from the start, but part of that is FGO's been incredibly lucky despite the problems in both the gameplay and story aspects. And now we do have decent stories and characters that highlight how bad things were before anyway, though I'll commend them for trying now at least (if only for that).

[Namelesss]

NGL I wish that thread title was actually about a serious discussion but it became a shitshow of entertainment.

[Daybit]

I'm honestly still hung up on the "any character you can rename after yourself is a SI" point. Which would includes all Final Fantasy characters up to 10.

Also it's a bit weird that someone who stans Castoria so hard and has so much cash to burn on fanwank dick measuring contests in other unrelated games, doesn't even have Lalter. Well, unless you're another LVL.

Well, I stan Castoria so hard because of her potrrayal in LB6 outside of Muramasa scenes.
Lancer Alter doesn't have a role inside of the game outside of London scene where she does appear for no real reason to fight Mordred atop of the sky.

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I think the whole SI thing really only works if you want it to. Every character is self insertable to a certain extent tho many people also mistakes emphatizing with self inserting. They're a minority but ive seen some guys say shirou and shiki are SIs just because there's options on their games

If you do try to get out of Guda's shoes, all that's left is a generic mc with generic traits and not much else. While they've been certainly adding some things now, that's the only part ill consider bad writing simply for the fact that why only now and after 4+ years? That and the inconsistent writing.

Other than that i do agree with everyone that you dont really need every single female character thirsting for an MCs dick to make a story unless you're fully commiting to making multiple routes which FGO is not. At the end of the day, its shounen or romantic comedy writing, which i wont deny FGO seems to be using to appeal to casuals. Besides i hardly find the appeal in most guda ships anyway when only one party comprise 90% of the actual conversations

So i dont find any NTR in lb6 simply for 1)no one has an actual relationship beyond close friends and 2)any castoria-muramasa moments, if there were any, is blindingly played for fanservice and nostalgia only.

Guda is self-insert and woul always be a self-insert, because it literally had your name and birthdate, and that will never change.
Even during some of the official CV there was "thank you to all the Masters" directed to the viewer, which is obviously meant to say that player is the Master.
That's the point of Guda having no backstory and no traits outside of being Lawful Good (which is standard for protagonist) and nice to everyone, even villains (see Koyanskaya).
Otherwise they would start with the very beginning, aka the backstory, which helps to develop character for a great amount. Which they aren't doing.

You don't need every single female character, but only the good developed ones.
Eresh scenes in Babylonia was so good, so people still making fanart with her and Guda and only ever ship her with Guda.
I kinda agree on 90% being servant monologue and it's a problem, I wish they would make more in line with Kirschtaria x Caenis moments.

is blindingly played for fanservice and nostalgia only

That's still a bad taste. Babylonia had fancervice characters without them being soulless trash.

[Rafflesiac]

actually he's lawful neutral

[Comun]

I'm honestly still hung up on the "any character you can rename after yourself is a SI" point. Which would includes all Final Fantasy characters up to 10.

I like the implications for games where you name the entire party. That Ninten and Ana dance scene from MOTHER 1? That was you partaking in selfcest.

[AAM1232]

Comun stop right there. Any -cesting talk is to be avoided.

[Reverse_side98]

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Guda is self-insert and woul always be a self-insert, because it literally had your name and birthdate, and that will never change.
Even during some of the official CV there was "thank you to all the Masters" directed to the viewer, which is obviously meant to say that player is the Master.
That's the point of Guda having no backstory and no traits outside of being Lawful Good (which is standard for protagonist) and nice to everyone, even villains (see Koyanskaya).
Otherwise they would start with the very beginning, aka the backstory, which helps to develop character for a great amount. Which they aren't doing

I wont deny that guda definitely is still arguably a self-insert since it would be a really huge stretch to call them a fleshed-out character. I think it depends but not everything i can name or set the birthday of is a SI. Hakuno for example is who i considered to be a self-insert bait for self-inserters because you can still set his name but dude talks a lot without me inputting what he's going to say plus the eventual reveal of his backstory unlike guda. He even has a default name or that's just in the later games(?)

Guda has been getting........something since LB1. My major gripe is that its usually too little. Whatever they're trying to do with his character is inconsistent and lacking i feel like they're just half-assing trying to tell you "this is not you". The most negative thing i can call him is bland but i wont consider him an SI. It would take some unholy writting skills to put a full-on SI on a story

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I also don’t consider Guda as self-insert much since their options and decisions are differing to what I would’ve preferred. But regardless of the argument, as long as there are these points; changeable name and birthday in the gameplay option, Daybit will always consider them self-insert.

[Daybit]

I wont deny that guda definitely is still arguably a self-insert since it would be a really huge stretch to call them a fleshed-out character. I think it depends but not everything i can name or set the birthday of is a SI. Hakuno for example is who i considered to be a self-insert bait for self-inserters because you can still set his name but dude talks a lot without me inputting what he's going to say plus the eventual reveal of his backstory unlike guda. He even has a default name or that's just in the later games(?)

Don't think Zabiko has a default name out of the adaptations, Nasu still calls him The Protagonist in the blog. Hakuno is the anime name.

And Hakuno has no backstory, that's whole point of the amnesia. He is blank state who is made by events of Moon HGW. Backstory means important connections or events of the past, such as Kirsch's story around his father and young Beryl-looking boy who saved him, which made him as person. Nothing like that is known about Hakuno.

Also Hakuno being named as "nameless you" in his CE description:

その勝利者こそ、名前のない”あなた”である。

It would take some unholy writting skills to put a full-on SI on a story

Depends on what you think SI is. But if you want to be able to put any input you want into the game, it would require real AI, since no writer could write every single possibility.

Also they clearly still want to sustain that illusion that Guda is "you", going with how Master and player is interchangeable are event descriptions, and CVs which talks directly to viewer.

[Reverse_side98]

I guess it does depend on what SI we're talking about here. The term itself is broad ranging from blank slate at worst and bland at best.

[Desann]

Don't think Zabiko has a default name out of the adaptations, Nasu still calls him The Protagonist in the blog. Hakuno is the anime name.

I don't remember about first Extra, but in CCC/Extellas Hakuno is default name for protagonist.

[bassgs435]

Extra I'm sure didn't have a default. Hakuno as default starts with CCC and Extella. And female characters are allowed to not like the MC. The best women in Dies irae (Eleonore and Beatrice) don't even like Ren. Rika and Satoko are great characters in Higurashi even without a romantic attraction to Keiichi. Shion is great and she likes Satoshi, not K1. Witch Jeanne in Jeanne in the Clock Tower is great and she like Gilles, not Roland
Not all fiction is supossed to be happy either, look at Urobuchi's works before Thunderbolt Fantasy, like Saya no Uta, Phantom of Inferno, Kikokugai or Madoka. Look at To Your Eternity. Look at Devilman. Look at Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans. Look at Evangelion. Daybit, your claims are ridiculous

[Daybit]

Sure not in the CCC, it was empty slots : https://imgur.com/a/ZKNRGnF
Can't find Extella, but I remember empty slots for name as well.

[bassgs435]

Pretty sure you get Hakuno if you refuse to input anything. Not like you're open to any logic that denies your warped views of fiction

[Daybit]

Extra I'm sure didn't have a default. Hakuno as default starts with CCC and Extella. And female characters are allowed to not like the MC. The best women in Dies irae (Eleonore and Beatrice) don't even like Ren. Rika and Satoko are great characters in Higurashi even without a romantic attraction to Keiichi. Shion is great and she likes Satoshi, not K1. Witch Jeanne in Jeanne in the Clock Tower is great and she like Gilles, not Roland
Not all fiction is supossed to be happy either, look at Urobuchi's works before Thunderbolt Fantasy, like Saya no Uta, Phantom of Inferno, Kikokugai or Madoka. Look at To Your Eternity. Look at Devilman. Look at Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans. Look at Evangelion. Daybit, your claims are ridiculous

I am still salty about Evangelion's ending. It's like Shirou ending with Issei in the F/SN in every route. Never imagined myself as Shinji BTW.

And you're right about tragedy and dystopia genres. Lovecraft isn't happiest world either, actually the opposite.
I actually think that FGO world being pruned is the logical ending to FGO, foreshadowed by Da Vinci's question "would you agree with PHH removing your own timeline as well" and it would be tragic ending as well, as opposed to Extella's ending.
However there is one thing with tragedy and despair and another with writing Castoria just to ship with Muramasa for no reason for all the time they're on the screen. It's not tragedy, it's farce. It completely ignores the base for Shirou x Saber in F/SN and their compatibility. Nasu can do better, such as Kirschtaria x Caenis and Marisbury x Solomon.

[Dragolord09]

Look honest question: Do you actually believe what you're saying here, or are you just trying to get everybody's dandruff up no matter how low you can go?

[Daybit]

Look honest question: Do you actually believe what you're saying here, or are you just trying to get everybody's dandruff up no matter how low you can go?

I only ever post my honest opinion on things I talk about. There is no reason to do anything else.

[fumei]

Look honest question: Do you actually believe what you're saying here, or are you just trying to get everybody's dandruff up no matter how low you can go?

Why would he ever say it was the latter, even if it's the truth?