Servant/Project Idea Thread, "The Womb"

[Spelror]

castro and friends steal the grail to get revenge on Khrushchev and eliminate the Americans for good

[Osrio]

I mean, I think you can go either route.

If you go the "Eizberns fuck with the process a little too hard" I think you could probably frame it as, "in an attempt to pull some really powerful shit with a myriad of catalysts, they pour too much into the ritual, forcing the ritual to instead choose a servant based off the candidate's personality", with said Eizbern Master being a homunculus, and getting something weird. Whether that's a stops the war weird, or is something hollow and empty like a Stranger weird, I think it's still a viable route/convergence point.

If you go the Cold war steal route, I think it's funnier if it's just some fucking guy. Like, not a government agent or anything, just a guy who accidentally joined the war, rolled Lupin or Goemon or someone who could steal a grail, and goes off to (insert setting for your fic here) and vibes until the grail gets taken back and a new war starts.

Alternatively, the Cubans.

Oh, when I meant that the Grail is stolen, I meant that a magus family would steal the Grail and that they would accidentally trigger the reserve system in trying to cheat the Grail. Their plan would've involved gathering various relatives to ensure a very swift and bloodless Grail War. However... that doesn't work, considering all of the Masters are trying to work together. As for the Cold War, I guess it's more realistic if it's just some guy who steals it with a Lupin Servant only to lose it again after the war, but it kinda feels like we're back to square one. Unless it's like... America who steals the Grail. Which could sorta lead to a Strange/Fake...ish scenario?

[Serra]

I'll be honest I don't really get what you're going for rn. What do you want to write, exactly?

You say you need a setup for some noncanon magus family to steal the Grail for themselves, but then you say that, if they succesfully steal it for themselves and set their plan in motion, there isn't a story. because you end up with a bloodless HGW among Masters that are willing to work together and give up their chance to personally get the Grail, since they're all part of the same faction anyway. So, why do you want one magus family to succesfully steal the grail with that plan in mind in the first place?

Then, you say if just one person steals the grail and loses it afterwards, that doesn't lead anywhere, either. Would you prefer if that person just kept it after stealing it, and started a new HGW at some point down the line?

One solution here could be to just to go for the 'magus family heists the grail' route but have them not work together and turn at each other's throats as soon as the War starts. Turns out they actually want to do very different things with the Grail from one another, and the only reason the various Masters helped steal the Grail was for a chance to be in the war at all. That sort of deal. That doesn't necessarily exclude the involvement of other families, either. They might contract stray servants partway through the HGW, or replace a member of the family who stole the Grail before that member managed to summon their Servant, or get in some other way. This might necessitate you to scrap a bunch of the cast, though, and I have no idea how far you are on that, or if this sort of premise would be something you'd like to write.

[Osrio]

I'll be honest I don't really get what you're going for rn. What do you want to write, exactly?

You say you need a setup for some noncanon magus family to steal the Grail for themselves, but then you say that, if they succesfully steal it for themselves and set their plan in motion, there isn't a story. because you end up with a bloodless HGW among Masters that are willing to work together and give up their chance to personally get the Grail, since they're all part of the same faction anyway. So, why do you want one magus family to succesfully steal the grail with that plan in mind in the first place?

Then, you say if just one person steals the grail and loses it afterwards, that doesn't lead anywhere, either. Would you prefer if that person just kept it after stealing it, and started a new HGW at some point down the line?

One solution here could be to just to go for the 'magus family heists the grail' route but have them not work together and turn at each other's throats as soon as the War starts. Turns out they actually want to do very different things with the Grail from one another, and the only reason the various Masters helped steal the Grail was for a chance to be in the war at all. That sort of deal. That doesn't necessarily exclude the involvement of other families, either. They might contract stray servants partway through the HGW, or replace a member of the family who stole the Grail before that member managed to summon their Servant, or get in some other way. This might necessitate you to scrap a bunch of the cast, though, and I have no idea how far you are on that, or if this sort of premise would be something you'd like to write.

Truth be told Serra, I wish I knew myself.

What I meant by that second point is that while the family *tries* to set up a war to cheat the system... it doesn't work because the Reserve system activates, bringing in another faction and triggering an Apocrypha.

At this juncture, I might go with the magus family steals the grail... but devolves into a massive civil war that brings in outsiders to fight on some of their behalf.

[Serra]

Truth be told Serra, I wish I knew myself.

What I meant by that second point is that while the family *tries* to set up a war to cheat the system... it doesn't work because the Reserve system activates, bringing in another faction and triggering an Apocrypha.

...But if the reserve system does go in action, there's a story even if the members of the family that stole the grail all chose to cooperate with one another, so, I don't really get what problem you had with this route, other than it being pretty close to Apocrypha.

[Osrio]

...But if the reserve system does go in action, there's a story even if the members of the family that stole the grail all chose to cooperate with one another, so, I don't really get what problem you had with this route, other than it being pretty close to Apocrypha.

It's less the concept that's an issue and more me doubting my ability to deliver on the premise.

One thing that always kinda bothered me about Apocrypha is that you never get to meet any of the other Red Faction masters because of Shirou hijacking the war. I get this was his plan, but it really takes away from the premise of a Great Grail War when the Red Faction only has one dude in it at this point. So if I did this, I'd want to try to actually have the factions actually work as a team, rather than have one priest boi steal all but one of the Red Servants.

[Osrio]

Alrighty... maybe it can work like this.

During either WW2 or the Cold War, a family of magi plot the greatest heist of all; to steal the Holy Grail from under the noses of the Three Founding Families. An extremely risky venture to be sure, but one that could pay in spades. Utlizing the chaos in the aftermath of the Third Grail War, the family hatches their plot to blitz past whatever defenses the now tired families can muster and snatch away their prize. The heist goes down in magi history, sending shockwaves throughout the Mage's Association. The family lies low to avoid the ire of the Einzbern and Tohsaka, as well as any Enforcers that might be looking into the situation. In the meanwhile, the family spends the next few decades studying the systems at play, trying to find a way to access the Grail's ability to grant wishes without the complications of a Grail War.

In 2006, the time has come for a new Grail War. This was supposed to be a private, family affair decades in the making. The family would each summon a Servant, engage in a bloodless, relatively peaceful conflict in order to grant a wish for them all. Yet one cannot expect to cheat something as complex as the Greater Grail and come out with no lessons to show for it. In their haste to hurry along and get the War over with, the Reserve System is activated by accident, drawing in the Mage's Association and their own faction seeking the Grail. Now the die has been cast and the curtain rises on the Grand Grail War.

[Anime Aurelius Anomaly]

This idea sounds good, but the thing that I don't really get is how are you supposed to keep the Holy Grail hidden from the rest of magus society? Does this family just pull an SCP Foundation on the magus and kept it hidden?

[Osrio]

This idea sounds good, but the thing that I don't really get is how are you supposed to keep the Holy Grail hidden from the rest of magus society? Does this family just pull an SCP Foundation on the magus and kept it hidden?

That's one thing I've been struggling with myself.

It's one thing to hide your family from the Association, it's another thing to hide the freakin' Greater Grail. Darnic somehow managed it, using the Germans as scapegoats, but this family doesn't have that luxury...

[Anime Aurelius Anomaly]

Pretty sure that would be this family must've had some sort of connection with either local governments or just, really anything, to keep the Grail hidden.

[You]

That's one thing I've been struggling with myself.

It's one thing to hide your family from the Association, it's another thing to hide the freakin' Greater Grail. Darnic somehow managed it, using the Germans as scapegoats, but this family doesn't have that luxury...

How do they know there's a Greater Grail?
That's not common knowledge. Darnic found out by accident during the war in the Apo lines.

[Osrio]

How do they know there's a Greater Grail?
That's not common knowledge. Darnic found out by accident during the war in the Apo lines.

Oh crap, really-?

Hrm...

Okay, okay. Lemme try to think about this from the family's perspective. Darnic found out by accidentally discovering the cave that housed the Greater Grail, yeah. Obviously the family would send in recon, so maybe we can say the spy discovers the cave like how Darnic did? IIRC, Darnic discovered it before the beginning of the Grail War, hence why he called in Germany for assistance. Without that...

Maybe the family used the US to help them if we have the theft take place during the Cold War? The Soviets could also work, even if the family don't really care about the USSR. Russia's just giving them resources and just like Darnic, they can just fuck over Russia and run off with the Grail after it's all said and done. As for hiding it, the family could have political or financial backing that can help in hiding the Greater Grail from everyone.

[Anime Aurelius Anomaly]

If that's the case, then the family must've have someone very convincing for the governments of either the USA or the USSR to pool in resources just to hide the greater grail.

[You]

Oh crap, really-?

Hrm...

Okay, okay. Lemme try to think about this from the family's perspective. Darnic found out by accidentally discovering the cave that housed the Greater Grail, yeah. Obviously the family would send in recon, so maybe we can say the spy discovers the cave like how Darnic did? IIRC, Darnic discovered it before the beginning of the Grail War, hence why he called in Germany for assistance. Without that...

Maybe the family used the US to help them if we have the theft take place during the Cold War? The Soviets could also work, even if the family don't really care about the USSR. Russia's just giving them resources and just like Darnic, they can just fuck over Russia and run off with the Grail after it's all said and done. As for hiding it, the family could have political or financial backing that can help in hiding the Greater Grail from everyone.

Darnic recruited the Nazis before the war.
He found the Greater Grail towards the end.

Naturally, remaining in the Association was humiliating. But Darnic carved that humiliation into his heart without forgetting any bit of it for even a second—and used it as nourishment.

At that time, he coincidently learned about the Holy Grail War in Fuyuki City. He involved Nazi Germany, who were interested in the occult, obtained the power of their army, and participated in the war as a Master.

Among those experiences, the Third Holy Grail War sixty years ago had been an uncannily harsh battle, so much so that, even now, he rejoiced at still being alive like this.

Back then, he had the unexpected fortune of finding a path that led to the Greater Grail from a hole he had happened to fall into. He then enticed the German Nazis with skillful words, getting them to send in, under the direct orders of the Führer, a huge military force that one wouldn’t expect to be sent to an allied country like Japan, and had them steal the Greater Grail.

While the Einzberns dearly wished to call forth a proper Heroic Spirit befitting the Ruler class rather than some nameless Eastern hero, the act of summoning a Ruler was already a severe interference in the normal operating format of the Holy Grail War. He was a compromise – though the overwhelming advantage of his Command Spells could hardly be seen as such. The summoned Amakusa Shirou was neither outstanding in combat nor proficient in thaumaturgy to the level of a Caster-class Servant, but he continued to win, and survive, in the Third Holy Grail War. He was ever heedful and never gambled, fulfilling his duties even as he thoroughly cemented his defenses. As the third war drew to a close, the Einzberns clearly stood closer than any other to the Greater Grail.

However, the unexpected occurred. One participant of the war – Darnic Prestone Yggdmillennia, head of the Yggdmillennia clan – discovered by chance the Greater Grail and, borrowing the power of the military, embarked on an operation to seize it. After that, the Third Holy Grail War fell apart. In the brutal thaumaturgical conflict that followed, surviving Servants tore one another apart in pursuit of the Greater Grail, and the Master of the Einzberns was killed in the shambles of battle.

The only reason why it worked imo is because The battle for the Lesser Grail moved from Fuyuki to the Imperial Capital.

[DracoScribe]

I say Caster is fine. Maybe Archer (sound waves n shit?). The others feel kinda iffy imo.

Yeah, I thought I was overthinking. Thanks. Now back to--

I'd also consider Voyager honestly. My justification is moreso referencing the "Experience Type" representing a metaphysical journey that Del lists in his class guide, but I think you could justify it through the voyage he took the guitar on in terms of popularizing it. The way you describe it here, it being from a place of love that he came to play it professionally and prove it as a sort of proper instrument, it almost comes off as a coming of age story for the instrument. I'm with BnEl15 in feeling that Caster is fine, but if the sheet's soul lies in the expression and elevation of guitar to the world, rather than Fransico as the founder and origin, I'd go Voyager.

OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH YES I love the idea. Couldn't have said it better myself! Especially "the expression and elevation of guitar" part. I'll go with that class then. Thank you so much!

Yooo. Life's been busy, but i did not forget this one. We hold it in July, instead of the Rework Contest. Therefore it will start on the first of the month, but I hope to release the thread for it several days before.

WOOOOO YES! Thanks for the answer.
I'm looking forward to it!

[Osrio]

Darnic recruited the Nazis before the war.
He found the Greater Grail towards the end.







The only reason why it worked imo is because The battle for the Lesser Grail moved from Fuyuki to the Imperial Capital.

Eh... true. Not sure how to get around that. One idea could be to have the family steal the Grail from Darnic while he steals it from the Nazis, but at this point it becomes a game of hot potato. Or Hot Grail, I guess. Another idea is that the Third Grail War just ends on a similar note to the Second Grail War, a failure that only strains the resources of the Three Families while ending with no victor. And in this frame of weakness, the family could sneak in and capture the Grail.

[Dreamerless]

What would a phantasm based on having every thing you do predetermined and decided by a higher force do? My idea is that it gives you a "narrator" who tells you what you did before you do it, but what else?

[BnEl15]

This is going to sound wack, but... some kind of pseudo-invincibility? Everything that makes this person "them" is determined by this higher power. The person's sense of self doesn't matter, or it doesn't need to exist when everything is already predetermined for them. Therefore, the "real" Servant summoned is actually the higher power, figuratively using the person as a conduit/meat puppet. Thus, if you want to kill/hurt this person, you have to either sever their connection with the higher power, or hit said higher power directly through some conceptual mumbo-jumbo.

Would be a pretty op NP though, you might wanna find a way to limit its power somehow, like putting some specific conditions the person has to fulfill before they can invoke the invul spell.

[Dreamerless]

This is going to sound wack, but... some kind of pseudo-invincibility? Everything that makes this person "them" is determined by this higher power. The person's sense of self doesn't matter, or it doesn't need to exist when everything is already predetermined for them. Therefore, the "real" Servant summoned is actually the higher power, figuratively using the person as a conduit/meat puppet. Thus, if you want to kill/hurt this person, you have to either sever their connection with the higher power, or hit said higher power directly through some conceptual mumbo-jumbo.

Would be a pretty op NP though, you might wanna find a way to limit its power somehow, like putting some specific conditions the person has to fulfill before they can invoke the invul spell.

That was my original thought. That you NEED to fulfill the path you have been chosen for. It might be OP though, its kinda like what your own Reynard/Isengrim have. But the meat puppet thing sounds quite interesting...like a Watcher (although this is Berserker class likely)

[Skull]

What immediately came to mind was King Crimson from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Vento Aureo with how the Boss sees the future via a kind of stroboscopic motion photography imagery and how only he can move freely within the ten seconds whilst everyone else has to fill out their predetermined actions.

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