Servant/Project Idea Thread, "The Womb"

[Cursed by Fortuna]

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[Cursed by Fortuna]

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[DelRey]

i recently saw an updated form of the FGO class relations in terms of their effectiveness to each other
got me thinking how the other classes would function against each other.

so just for fun I came up with the following triangles for classes:

Lovers are weak against Fakers, because they are deceived by them (false identity)
Fakers are weak against Savers, because they can find salvation from them (accepting real identity)
Savers are weak against Lovers, because they can not compete with them for Love (focussed love vs general love)

Voyagers are weak against Gatekeepers, because they prevent their journeys
Gatekeepers are weak against Watchers, because they can can bypass fortifications (territory infringement skill)
Watchers are weak against Voyagers, because they move outside the area they can observe (conceptually moving vs stationary field of vision)

[Wyvern]

It really puts things into perspective. Sometimes what keeps people from becoming enlightened are their earthly connections, the love they have for someone else which tethers them to mortality.

You could say that the adoration of the masses is inferior to the personal love and devotion.

Or rather. That one person's love for another can be more intense than a savior's love for humanity.

[BnEl15]

Random Lostbelt idea

I've seen a few ideas on how a Lostbelt set in the Garden of Eden could happen, the most obvious ideas are Adam and Eve never eating the fruit, or Lilith somehow getting involved. Here, I bring you another idea.

Eve ate the fruit. But then, when she offered it to Adam, he just went "yeah, no thanks".

A few hundred years later, you have two races of humans, one who remained in blissful ignorance in Eden, and another who spent their entire lives in the utter chaos of the outside world (no idea how the first two humans could procreate without each other, but I'm sure you can whip up some explanation for that). A massive uprising is brewing outside the Garden as Eve's descendants (possibly egged on by the serpent) tried to enter the Garden by force while Adam's descendants had to ward them off. As Chaldea navigates themselves through this conflict, they'd see the extremes of both sides, and in the end, without leaning too hard on the SMT themes, they reach the conclusion that both extremes (a garden of blissfully ignorant people who never knew sin and a chaotic wasteland of people who never knew virtue) kinda suck, and humanity should strife to balance vice and virtue together.

Of course, the challenge of writing an Eden Lostbelt is the Servants you can include there. Aside from early biblical figures, I imagine we can have some scholars and philosophers who talked about vice and virtue, considering the main theme of the Lostbelt. We could also have Kamerad's Hieronymus Bosch here, since the man painted Eden once. I'm sure that translates into some cool conceptual power that could be used in the LB.

Just throwing this out here, since writing LBs aren't usually my forte. If anyone's interested in developing this idea, go for it.

[Wyvern]

Well... Eden does have the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

As everyone here knows. Mystic Trees of any and all kinds are kinda what I do as the main draw of my Lostbelt.

I'll see if I can give this a try and how it fits with the Lostbelts adjacent to El Dorado.

[DelRey]

sounds more like a real Lost World, but it does sound interesting.

Good thing for you, wyvern, that there are several 'Tree of Life' Archetypes in Mythology for potential adjacent Lostbelts. I know the baltic people had a tree as axis mundi and the persians had the gaokerena. Interesting stuff

[Kabalisto Koga]

sounds more like a real Lost World, but it does sound interesting.

Good thing for you, wyvern, that there are several 'Tree of Life' Archetypes in Mythology for potential adjacent Lostbelts. I know the baltic people had a tree as axis mundi and the persians had the gaokerena. Interesting stuff

i like to add that in the little known original armenian mythology werer appearantly also a divine tree however no nearer info is known only that some known Armenian related legends could be the echo of it similar like many Irish or British mythologies of ancient time werer modified through later forreign influences , and in the slavic myth which is related to the baltic but not the same is also on Tree which is connected to the underworld and its ruler the God Veles .

and dont forget the most prominent example Yggdrasil in the nordic German mythology

[Wyvern]

According to the lore I put together, there are certain categories when it comes to tree-related mysteries.

Mystic Trees - Which are older specimens of standard trees that have accumulated mystery over time and become symbols connected to magecraft and history in general.

Sacred Trees - Terminals which reflect the beliefs of a person or group, imprinting the resulting image in the physical world. So, you could say that locations which existed only in myth were mirages projected by Sacred Trees, mirroing the beliefs of those who lived around them.

Divine Trees - Also known as the Trees of Life. They are the original mechanism put in place to fascilitate the evolution of life on land, recording the evolutionary paths which living beings took in order o adapt to the environment established by them as the 'most likely to spawn life forms'. Divine Trees together form the Biosphere of the Planet, the area where life was allowed to thrive, but vanished from the world gradually as human theories of evolution, climate patterns and biology became more widespread.

Above the Divine Trees there is only one category, the World Tree.

You can think of World Trees as a system which includes a vast number of Sacred and Divine Trees, creating a vast ecosystem which abides by the 'logic' of the central body.

Yggdrasil, as mentioned above is a World Tree by virtue of being connected to various others lesser trees which were spawned in the same cultural sphere. The Nine Realms of Norse Mythology were nothing more than a large scale imprinting of the Sacred Trees connected to a greater Divine Tree, reflecting the image of the Nine Realms which humans at the time believed in.

When Surtr went kaboom, the World Tree was irreparably damaged, bringing an end to the World of Norse.

Divine Tree Yggdrasil was destroyed and without it, the rest of the Sacred Trees either perished with it, or became isolated and disconnected from the original greater picture that was the Norse World Ecosystem.

[DelRey]

you mentioned a connection to the pillars of light right? was it just a comparison or do you have a concrete 'Pillar which pins the Biosphere to the texture of the Earth' in mind?
I personally would view those Divine Trees as emanations of this Biosphere Pillar like Rhongom is the shadow of the real pillar. Just that those shadows are much more massive

[Wyvern]

There is a Pillar which pins the concept of the Biosphere to the planet. But you really need to understand the history of the Divine Trees as they relate to the World.

Originally, there was a vast World Tree which connected to all Divine Trees. That original World Tree is what you would call the Pillar of the Biosphere, which spread as Divine Trees were spawned from it back in the Age of the Gods.

But you guys know how that song and dance goes.

White Titan arrives, most of the physical gods of the world are destroyed.

Including the original World Tree and most of the literal sea of Divine Trees connected to it. Leading to the weakening of the Age of Gods as a whole and the Divine Trees becoming individual ecosystem managers rather than a massive web linked to the central World Tree. Instead, Sacred Trees started to spawn as a result of humans associating them with their own myths and legends surrounding the Divine Trees and original World Tree.

Yggdrasil was a result of a mini World Tree created from various Sacred Trees linking together with the Divine Tree they were spawned from.

Similar to how Divine Trees are the Gods and Sacred Trees are Divine Spirits.

The Sacred Trees were reflections of the Divine Tree created to reflect the beliefs of humans.

Divine Trees were terminals of the original World Tree. Which is the Pillar of the Biosphere. I imagine that it would be located in an area where life itself or humanity was said to thrive. I still have to make a choice regarding that.

[DelRey]

cool stuff.
that reminds me that I wanted to ask if some here have ideas what could be 'textures' that could warrant a 'pillar' in the nasuverse.
In my sheets so far I made the Pillar of Time the Feather of Ma'at and Odins Spear Gungnir the Spear that pinned the Norse Texture.
I have plans for the pillars of the Stars or Sky and the Sun.

[Wyvern]

Seems like the Pillar of Terrestrial Life was added to the list. Glad I could help.

[Lambda-Nu]

That Eden Lostbelt idea sounds really cool. Although, I have to admit that I probably won't do it because of the fact that the divergence point goes so far back that it could possibly result in an EX-Rank Lost Depth. That's gonna make things difficult to figure out, since Lostbelt No. 6 showed that Proper Human History Servants literally cannot set foot on its soil due to the sheer incompatibility between it and PHH (with a few exceptions).

[BnEl15]

That Eden Lostbelt idea sounds really cool. Although, I have to admit that I probably won't do it because of the fact that the divergence point goes so far back that it could possibly result in an EX-Rank Lost Depth. That's gonna make things difficult to figure out, since Lostbelt No. 6 showed that Proper Human History Servants literally cannot set foot on its soil due to the sheer incompatibility between it and PHH (with a few exceptions).

I believe you can get away with making the Eden LB's Lost Depth around A or A+, since compared to LB6, technically the LB isn't too different compared to PHH. Humans remain the dominant species (even if they have wildly different sensibilities compared to PHH), they'd probably still have their own culture, to some extent, and they're even largely still in charge of their own fate. I imagine God or the Devil still influences their actions somewhat, but they technically still have free will, even if they can't fully wield it due to them not knowing anything else beyond blissful ignorance (inside Eden) or not having any limits to their concept of free will (outside Eden, which, on that note, my Samyaza would fit pretty nicely there as a representation of "unrestrained free will").

[Lambda-Nu]

I believe you can get away with making the Eden LB's Lost Depth around A or A+, since compared to LB6, technically the LB isn't too different compared to PHH. Humans remain the dominant species (even if they have wildly different sensibilities compared to PHH), they'd probably still have their own culture, to some extent, and they're even largely still in charge of their own fate. I imagine God or the Devil still influences their actions somewhat, but they technically still have free will, even if they can't fully wield it due to them not knowing anything else beyond blissful ignorance (inside Eden) or not having any limits to their concept of free will (outside Eden, which, on that note, my Samyaza would fit pretty nicely there as a representation of "unrestrained free will").

Okay, fair point. In that case, I may look into it.

[Kabalisto Koga]

I believe you can get away with making the Eden LB's Lost Depth around A or A+, since compared to LB6, technically the LB isn't too different compared to PHH. Humans remain the dominant species (even if they have wildly different sensibilities compared to PHH), they'd probably still have their own culture, to some extent, and they're even largely still in charge of their own fate. I imagine God or the Devil still influences their actions somewhat, but they technically still have free will, even if they can't fully wield it due to them not knowing anything else beyond blissful ignorance (inside Eden) or not having any limits to their concept of free will (outside Eden, which, on that note, my Samyaza would fit pretty nicely there as a representation of "unrestrained free will").

or as other servants could you include Assyrian or other levantic servants plus some other Gods could appear if you want to enrich the Lostbelt with contemporary events ?

[Lambda-Nu]

or as other servants could you include Assyrian or other levantic servants plus some other Gods could appear if you want to enrich the Lostbelt with contemporary events ?

"Enrich the Lostbelt with contemporary events"

Koga, what are you even talking about?

As for what Servants can be included, I'd imagine that just about anything is fair game so long as you can make their inclusion in the story feel natural.

[BnEl15]

Another random idea for the LB

Someone (either Chaldea or the Crypter) summoned the original Adam/Eve to the LB. Here, they found out that LB!Cain and Abel are commanders of opposing sides (with one of them being LB!Adam's son, remaining in Eden, while the other was LB!Eve's who was born and spent his entire life outside). Knowing what happened in PHH, the summoned Adam/Eve tried to mediate between the brothers, and for a while, it seemed as though they might just succeed in putting aside their differences... except not really, and the first half of the LB ended with Abel somehow killing Cain as their parent powerlessly watched.

Sorry not sorry for the angst

[Lambda-Nu]

I think I have something in mind for the Eden Lostbelt; the Tree of Life. Because Adam refused the Fruit of Knowledge, he and his descendants were allowed to eat of the Fruit of Life. So while the humans outside of Eden have knowledge and free will at the cost of order, the humans inside Eden have eternal life and order at the cost of free will.