Servant/Project Idea Thread, "The Womb"

[Comun]

Adele can use Hermes's blessings in Olympus, but I don't think Dyonisus was ever mentioned.

[Cursed by Fortuna]

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[Alexcoene]

I mean, Dyonisusnot being part of the original machine gods make perfect sense since even the myths said he spend a good part of his early life as a king and conqueror.

[DelRey]

Adele can use Hermes's blessings in Olympus, but I don't think Dyonisus was ever mentioned.

oh that's interesting, can you tell or direct me where it was mentioned?
but it does make sense in a way, Odysseus has the blessing of the messenger god skill as i recently discovered. So it is probable that Hermes was a machine too, but not a big one.
I can imagine him as a satellite up in the sky with artemis, but had no story impact or offense capabilities to be mentioned.

[Kamera]

Hermes seems to be an important figure in Atlas too.

[NINE-lives]

I really hope you do grand berserker Dionysus primarily because of how “lacking/underwhelming” Sisyphus felt as a grand berserker candidate. I also believe that you can reuse your Trimurti-Astra idea for Dionysus based on zagreus being a god of rebirth.

[Comun]

oh that's interesting, can you tell or direct me where it was mentioned?

Olympus chapter 11 arrow 1. Zeus has his ears all over Olympus so Adele casts Hermes's blessing to allow the party to communicate telepathically.

Also, I found a Dionysus mention in Medb's second interlude, but it's just a namedrop so all we can confirm from it is that Iskandar believes he exists and that he's associated with alcohol.

[Wyvern]

I may need a citation on that. That's first I ever heard of the matter and it raises a bunch of questions on why the Sefar has Bunrei (I thought those were exclusive to divine spirits). I also was under the impression that the the Sefars body was implied to be used by Odin to make the valkyries and it's somehow, maybe made by some part of it's essence, spirit, or maybe even some part of it's body that Odin missed, became Attila the Hun.

Well, we can't be sure if it is the same way in Proper Human History.

But in the Lostbelts, the Gigas were definitely referenced as being 'spiritual remnants of Sefar' which took in the 'concepts of the world'.

Mentioned in Olympus: Interstellar Mountain City, Chapter 18

I don't have the proper arrow count. But it should be on that chapter.

[Baron Magnus]

well it could be related to the cult of dionysus... or more accurately the cult of orphism. I dunno much about it myself but its mentioned in OSP video about dionysus and some research confirms they were a thing... and their main thing? lots and lots of wine. dionysus happens to be a god of wine... well madness too... and death and rebirth.

[DelRey]

Much appreciated, thank you. It prevents me from using the idea of hermes being a local god

[NINE-lives]

If you are referring to orphism then orphism is soo much more interesting than just wine.

“The central focus of Orphism is the suffering and death of the god Dionysus at the hands of the Titans, which forms the basis of Orphism's central myth. According to this myth, the infant Dionysus is killed, torn apart, and consumed by the Titans. In retribution, Zeus strikes the Titans with a thunderbolt, turning them to ash. From these ashes, humanity is born. In Orphic belief, this myth describes humanity as having a dual nature: body (Ancient Greek: σῶμα, romanized: sôma), inherited from the Titans, and a divine spark or soul (Ancient Greek: ψυχή, romanized: psukhḗ), inherited from Dionysus. In order to achieve salvation from the Titanic, material existence, one had to be initiated into the Dionysian mysteries and undergo teletē, a ritual purification and reliving of the suffering and death of the god. Orphics believed that they would, after death, spend eternity alongside Orpheus and other heroes. The uninitiated (Ancient Greek: ἀμύητος, romanized: amúētos), they believed, would be reincarnated indefinitely.”

This actually sounds a lot like Hinduism/Buddhism with the focus on escaping the cycle of reincarnation.

[Baron Magnus]

credit where credit is due, you got me. I forgot that completely. That said, Delray, I was more stating I could buy either interpretation. His themes of rebirth would allow him to play fast and loose with the rules. what's a little dying done to anyone?

[NINE-lives]

My idea for Dionysus is that he can essentially either force a target to undergone reincarnation or banish a target from the cycle of reincarnation (either causing a target to reincarnate on the spot or forcibly achieve enlightenment and disappear from the world).

[Wyvern]

Mine is more limited. With Dionysus being the target of serial reincarnation throughout history. He himself is a representation of the cycle. Going through several forms of constantly lowering divinity, before his divinity starts to increase again. The big threat being the idea that if the cycle keeps on going, he will eventually loop back to being a full Physical God.

[Baron Magnus]

That... you know that actually could work in nasuverse. he could theoretically utilize his existence to basically flaunt the laws of the world... actually with his madness aspect I think he could. that's an interesting line of thought to explore.

[NINE-lives]

My other idea is that he can infect others with his madness enhancement causing all but the strongest willed of foes to lose their sanity based on his authority as a god of insanity.

[Kabalisto Koga]

While neat and I may go with the angle of multiple names and identities, I'm probably going to go with a different explanation. I may give him some ability like a expanded version of Jekyll and Hyde based on when Zagreus died he transformed or shapeshifted into a bunch of different things. Maybe something along the likes of him having access to multiple different selves possibly with slightly different personalities and abilities which he can shift to either involuntarily (with him naturally assuming the form most suited / well known based on where he was summoned), or given a powerful catalyst linked to one of his alternates selves (and/or possibly a command seal) at will.


However this idea is one that I may axe or have to think about as it basically would require a lot of work, basically writing multiple connected, yet separate servants for the same sheet. Even then this raises a lot of question marks on where to draw the line with the synchronism, Sabazios is an obvious connection (as is Osiris), even in the past they were connected with Dionysus, and it's not too different, but what about Hades? Some connect him with Diyonsus and there is evidence to it in the themes of death in Dionysian worship, alongside similarities of states of Diyonsus and Hades, and a few other tidbits.



Moreover if I did synchronize him with Hades, of which I'm not sure if I will, that raises some more questions, such as should I synchronize him with Zeus? Some connections between Zeus and Hades also exist with some believing, that Zeus may have had some Chthonic underworld god aspect, or that him and Hades may have originally been the same God (which given way back in Ancient Greece [as in pre-Minoan civilization Greece]) I recall a documentary on the matter that cited there's a lot of evidence of death symbolism and underground (ie. chthonic) worship. So similar to Demeter and Cybele it's quite possible that way back Hades could have been the original "top god" in Ancient Greece, but for some reason he may have been supplanted in importance by Zeus, or that whatever deity they may have worshipped back then may have been divided into the figures of Zeus and Hades.


Even disregarding the possible Zeus Hades connection, Sabazios was not only linked with Diyonsus but also sometimes identified with Zeus, by both his Phrygian and North African followers. That may also possibly connect him with other beings storm / thunder / lighting deities in Asia Minor like Hadad (supported by Sabazios later being connected with Baal) who in turn is linked to Teshub among others. Plus via his connection to Sabazios some identified Diyonsus / Liber with Yahweh (which could be linked back to and similarities between Baal Hadad and Yahweh [who may have originally been called El]). Sabazios was also later identified or connected with Baal, and who himself was connected Heracles among other figures.



Basically one of the reasons I may axe this idea entirely is that it's a complicated rabbit hole to dive down. Plus even if I were to institute a "no more than one degree of separation rule" on connections (ie. no connecting Diyonsus / Liber / Bacchus with figures based on connections those connected figures have) that still leaves him possibly connected with Hades and based on his myth saying he went to India, similarities in worship and personality, and a few claims I found here and there, Shiva. That would basically make writing this whole thing a mess to write and balance, and be all over the place as a result. Although, if I ever do another Grail war story or revamp my original one, possibly an interesting antagonist.


As for the Machine Gods, honestly they're just a headache for me to write around or conceptualize "how does X or Y work given the Machine Gods?" so I'm probably just going to go with the standby of treating them like they were never machines at all just to get around the whole confusion.




I may need a citation on that. That's first I ever heard of the matter and it raises a bunch of questions on why the Sefar has Bunrei (I thought those were exclusive to divine spirits). I also was under the impression that the the Sefars body was implied to be used by Odin to make the valkyries and it's somehow, maybe made by some part of it's essence, spirit, or maybe even some part of it's body that Odin missed, became Attila the Hun.




Thanks for the help. Until I can find a citation or reference in canon I'll just assume Dyonisus existed but that Nasu & Co never referenced him for some reason. Interestingly doing a bit of digging into Dionysus some people theorize he may have been Hades (although there are some theories also that Hades and Zeus may have been the same deity [or that Zeus had a Chthonic underworld deity side]), so I wonder if that's the possible explanation on Nasu and Team's end. It does just come off as really weird that he never really acknowledged Dionysus as he is listed as one of the 12 Olympians IRL.

Also at first that reminds me that i read that there werer more then one Dionyssus one orphic and one greek .

About that connectionss isnt Sabazios the Thunder of the Balkanic Anatolian Pantheon ? and wasnt the Sabazios cult introduced from Thracia or Phrygia ? So that he was venerated in north africa do i think that here he werer introduced by the Romans ?

About the thing with Hades and Zeus i have read that there is a legend where also Poseidon had the abbillity to acces the power of thunders adt hat Poseidon has aside the King of the Sea also strong Chtonian aspects as he were seen as cause of the earthquackes and i read that in the Mycenean /Minoan Poseidon were the Paantheon chief and Zeus were seemingly not so important , similar like i think that Medusa might be the remnant of the Minoan Highgoddess withhin the Greek Mythospehre as i see that these Mythospehres or Worlds are functioning similar like Lostbelts in that the Greek Mythospehre absorbed the Anatolian , the Etruscian aswell the original Roman mythospehre as example and that the myths around Crete like Minotaurus or Medusa, the Phrygia Deities , the Samothracian Gods aswell some other anatolian myths are remnants of that former mythospehre in my oppinion .

like can it be that the Gigantes could have be perhaps some oft he "Non Greek MEditerean Gods " that Gaia importet or resurrected them into the Greek Mythospehre as their own spehre were absorbed ?

About Dionyssuss he werer mentioned in the lore of Faker in El Melloi class room also am i remebering in that hadnt the Romans something against the Bacchus cult have i read once somewhere .

Also could Dionyssus be somehow connected to the Thracian God Zalmoxis ?

[BnEl15]

My other idea is that he can infect others with his madness enhancement causing all but the strongest willed of foes to lose their sanity based on his authority as a god of insanity.

Ah yes, my old Hippocleides-as-Dionysius-Pseudo idea had something like this as an NP. Barely touched the Dionysius aspect back then though.

[DelRey]

I just thought has some bnel15-delusion trigger vibes

[Kabalisto Koga]

I just thought has some bnel15-delusion trigger vibes

What do you think Delrey could Zalmoxis have a reelation to Dionyysusu or what is the nature of the Thracian God in your view ? As there is still no consent on his position aside that the Dacian tribes had a special relationship towards him ?