We have two types of Ultimate One now to consider.Originally Posted by Nanaya
that is used for CM/Arc, andアルテミット・ワン原初の一for Oort cloud's Ultimate One in South America (currently speculated to be what ORT is classified as in Fate). How the two are related or differ from each other is unknown.アルテミット・ワン極限の単独種
Right. It's probably unique for each UO.
If Arc can remake the texture of the Earth etc, does this mean the other Types have similar powers on their own planets?
ORT's crystal valley is similar thing isn't it.
Maybe if they are all their respective 星の頭脳体 ?
Yeah, it is important to note that though the title of Original One is definitely tied to the concept of Ultimate One, they are definitely not analogous in every situation. Partially this is why I think translating it as Ultimate One is incorrect, since clearly there is significance to the title beyond it just being Ultimate One. And yes, it is Crimson Moon's title. From this perspective, I definitely see Archetype:Earth (specifically the FGO Asc1/MBAACC iteration) as essentially just being the will of Crimson Moon having incarnated into the frame of Earth. This is especially apparent, I think, if you read the FGO profile. To speculate a bit, Gaia and CM probably came to the kind of deal that lead CM's will/directive being in control of Earth's World Egg (世界卵). Perhaps without using CM as a model, it was impossible for Gaia to create its own Ultimate One for various reasons.
Altrouge is interesting because there are some things (at least from the old lore) that we know about her.
1. she has the name of Brunestud
2. she can't use Marble Phantasm (only Sumire out of the DAA can)
3. she controls Gaia's Monster (Primate Murder)
The first two seemingly contradict each other, because the name of Brunestud is only granted to True Ancestors who can manifest the Millennium Castle.
Regardless, I'm inclined to believe that the significance of the whole "she has to defeat Altrouge before she's truly the ONE" comes down to the Brunestud moniker. After all, that's what the title of Original One seems to be related to: Crimson Moon's succession. There's a part of me who thinks this was almost the concept behind Tsukihime 2 and their rivalry. Though how exactly Altrouge contests for it is still rather unclear. Unlike Arcueid, one would assume her birth is quite far removed from the planet, which is probably why she can't use Marble Phantasm. There is probably something to the idea that there are multiple different interpretations of how Crimson Moon's will is to be inherited, and Altrouge is one of them. Though who interpreted it? Who is responsible for Altrouge? Is it Crimson Moon as well? Their approaches seem so different I wonder if Altrouge was simply set up as a sort of test of Arcueid. It's still something that appears quite of out reach to come to a good conclusion about.
I feel like the reason why A:E says they're 'relieved of the duty' of the Brain of the Planet is simply that they've been summoned into a Saint Graph instead of using their World Egg frame. There shouldn't be too much to read into here, imo.
MBBAN doesn't signify much in terms of 'multidimensional' qualities. Much in the same way that Sion's simulation was 'real' because of how close it came to the actual one, could A:E interfere through the same principles, or at least that's what I think.
Was it ever said the castle can only be manifested with Marble Phantasm? IIRC it was originally part of Crimson Moon's reality marble so its possible Altrouge could be able to manifest it somehow with her own reality marble. We know RMs can be inherited and alot of the DAAs have one after all.
Aren't they supposed to have Principles/Idea Blood instead of RMs now?
burn your dread you coward
Ya I think we are mostly in agreement with how OO and CM Succession being the big point. How the deal came to place with CM taking control of the egg would totally fit I think. And I seem to recall something about Gaia not being able to judge itself and so a celestial body(CM) swoops in. It probably couldn't make a UO without him.
As for AE: It's definitely the form of the will/directive coming through though and is what Arc shifts to when she talks to Tatari and in MB. Remember how she shifts between mentality depending on if she's talking to Tatari or Shiki in that scene. Though I still feel like completion would require her character to shift more and the Arc component of the individual's being to completely vanish. Putting it like this, it makes it seem like a there is probably a sliding scale of elements at play like CM directive, Arc's base nature, and the malfunction created by Shiki. Not much different from Shiki's own Tohno/Nanaya and killing directive.
Well no. They have IB as their main unique power now but nothing indicates RM were strictly replaced. Roa while not having an IB seems to have a principle on reincarnation? He also still has Overload though so it probably depends on the ancestor. I'd imagine Tatari and Nero might have their stuff become IB? Or just get new depth to their powers.
In other news, do you think anything will be announced for Remake in the TM Times stream?
Last edited by Nanaya; August 6th, 2022 at 02:30 PM.
There is no conclusive evidence either way, but I'm on the side that Idea Blood is meant to be a replacement for the Ancestor's Reality Marbles. Genri Kekkai is definitely a name chosen to bring Koyuu Kekkai to mind. And then there's the difference we can see between Vlov and Noel. Noel's regular Principle is the Homesick Bells. It's just a power that conjures spears and uses the bells on them to trigger memory bombs. Meanwhile, Vlov's freezing is an Idea Blood, and it's shown straight up overwriting the world with its cold like a Reality Marble.
Though Noel's Idea Mosiac/Rita's Idea Blood muddles the idea because we can't see the outside to check if the dream world induced by the Mystic Eyes of Roses is overwriting reality or not. Unless they go with the route of "Mystic Eyes are inherently a form of internal RM", which would sorta of a sudden revelation after we known these two mechanics for so long.
Well, there is the bit about how vampire curse starts to taint the land as they get stronger. Vampire powers seem like they might be pretty varied though. Vlov and higher curses seem to just overwrite the laws of the world. Noel trapped Shiki's soul inside her eyes(That doesn't seem very RM-like) but also created that dream world and manifests the bells and stuff.
The Mystic Eye being a form of RM would be interesting though.
That scene where Shiki powers up against Roa had a very particular animation.... it was like something from within him overwrite the world except it didn't and it was more like something Roa couldn't perceive except instinctually.
The "seals opponent in one's eye" may not be an RM, but its also not a new idea.
What is the role of the eyeball that appears in Blood Fort Andromeda? Is it the Backbeard's? <Aisaka Riku>
Nasu Everyone forgets this, but that is Medusa's eyeball. It seals other people within oneself, hence why it's called Blood Fort Andromeda [Outer-Seal, Blood Temple]. The entire school building has been pulled into the eyeball of a monster.
Takeuchi Like a Conceptual Barrier? If it goes too far, won't it turn into the Shapeless Island?
Nasu Oui, Monsieur. The devil's den that Perseus escaped is invoked by Shinji, it is meant to be ironic.
Last edited by You; August 6th, 2022 at 06:45 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Ya I think they're just their own thing.
I think you misunderstood. I'm leaning towards Comun's interpretation; although I don't think it's a clear one to one.
From the examples we have the idea blood do seem to be inspired by the DAA RMs.
The parallel I used above was between the Mystic Eyes of Rose and Bloodfort, a conceptual bounded field. That is, both abilities of the Mystic Eyes of Rose - show a dream and seal within someone's eyes are bounded field abilities in previous works.
Last edited by You; August 6th, 2022 at 06:57 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I think I'm just being unclear. Are we saying they're all going to be bounded fields? Cause while the tainting the land/rewriting reality is an aspect of the curse I think their actual applications and specifics will be unique. I guess in a sense they might apply just by virtue of how they rewrite the laws of of the world?
Last edited by Nanaya; August 6th, 2022 at 07:36 PM.
I don't think they'll all be bounded fields. However, Nasu likes to reuse motifs.
For instance Vlov's freezing/fire is just a DA version of Akiha's life force plundering.
Whatever the actual idea blood's ability might be and the forms they take, I believe a majority of those will be taken from bounded field related abilities in previous works.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Sealing away someone's mind and showing them a dream is Breaker Gorgon's power, isn't it?
- - - Updated - - -
I mean, I know it's also the Mystic Eyes of Roses, I was just wondering if there's a connection there
Yes, and I was also thinking about White Len's dream barrier.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Blood Fort was mentioned earlier so that made me think of Medusa, is all
Didn't she also trap Ciel with the eyes? When Shiki broke out Ciel was still in a trance but the environment around her was still the vlov crater. She wasn't "sucked into" anywhere else either. So the world wasn't being overwritten by the ability, at least not in the same way Vlov's cold was doing.
I think this is more of a case-by-case basis, and sometimes the ability will resemble a RM, other times it won't.
burn your dread you coward
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