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Thread: Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

  1. #1601
    On the Holy Night Reign's Avatar
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    I can very easily believe this.

  2. #1602
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Honestly, the most intriguing part of the interview to me was this:



    Mario is a character who is still hiding his secrets but Nasu already spread all the hints the player needs to figure everything out. In fact, Nasu already found (a) theory post(s) that got the answer completely right.

    Note also that the interview was published on the 28th but actually held on the 8th.

    With that information and a very convenient lack of costumers today, I could check every Mario theory tweeted up until the 8th and learn what Nasu was talking about here. The results were interesting. I was expecting to see multiple answers and not be sure which was right, but it turned out that while the posts were wildly different in amount and choice of evidence, most of them had the same conclusion, and many of the ones saying different things back then already evolved their theories in the direction of this unified answer we got. I'm very confident that what I'm posting here is the truth Nasu indirectly confirmed in the interview.

    Spoiler:
    I'll start with Mario/Laurentis's backstory as laid out by the VN. Laurentis was a model cardinal of the Holy Church, considered to be the ideal candidate to be the next Pope if it weren't for one fatal flaw. Laurentis adopted over 20 sons or grandsons under a pretense of charity, but the adopted children looked too much like Laurentis himself for people to buy that, so the rumor spread that he was this lustful man ignoring his chastity vows to bang every woman he found. That's all that's openly said and all else is implied.

    Mario's goal in Tsukihime is to find Roa and ask him about immortality, so he can either make his "(grand)father" Laurentis perfectly immortal, or remove his imperfect immortality (his curse of eternal youth). Roa's answer was that he became a vampire because it's impossible to get immortal while retaining his humanity, and the vulture who scavenged his documents and ignored this clearly written detail got what was coming to them.

    Later in Roa's flashback talk with Nrvnqsr, Roa explain to his friend that he shifted his research subjected from the body to the soul because "the 'eternal youth' he was working with was retrogression itself". So the conclusion of the theories is that Mario and all of his older brothers are actually Laurentis himself aging backwards like Benjamin Button because he used Roa's eternal youth magecraft without caring about the drawbacks.

    Most of the other bits of evidence presented around are mismatches in either time, relationships, and identity. Going over them one by one:

    - Time: Mario is stated to be 12 but claims to be acquainted with Arcueid and to have experience pacifying a rampaging True Ancestor before, but those are both impossible because Arcueid's last activity was 13 years before. He also called the brother saved by Ciel a "brat not even on his 20s", which a very unnatural thing for 12-year-old younger brother to say. In the confrontation against Roa, he also talks about not having much time left to live, even though he's the youngest character here.

    - Relationships: Arcueid and Ciel technically don't know Mario, but Mario talks to them like he knows them on a personal level, at least enough to recognize the huge changes in Arcueid's post-Shiki personality and say Ciel is "still merciless as always". He uses "reading his (grand)father's files" as an excuse for his knowledge, but Arcueid clearly recognizes him by the "familiar smell of a Laurentis child", and Ciel makes a point to compare him to the brother whose life she saved in their first encounter.

    - Identity: The thing I found the most curious about Mario in my own playthrough of Arc's route was how his motivations were completely not about himself. He was fighting for his father's goal as if they were his own. His hatred and disappointment at Roa's answer felt personal like he was the one who depended on it. In my playthrough I though he just loved his father that much, but the theory reframes his portrayal into something a lot more natural. And then there's his conversation with Shiki on the Ciel Normal End that practically spells everything out:


    Miscellaneous extra evidence:
    - Mario is constantly stated to be 12, but his materials list his age as "12-14 (estimated)".
    - One of his dislikes is "the brother immediately before him", instead of the much more naturally worded "the brother immediately older than him".
    - Laurentis is retired and hidden from the public.
    - Laurentis is described as "human manipulator", which is something Mario's Piano Machine makes literal.
    I agree with this. Ever since Mario and Roa had the talk in Arcs route I thought it may be possible. The normal end further hints that ya.

  3. #1603
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    So what, none of them were ever seen together in the same room?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  4. #1604
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    So what, none of them were ever seen together in the same room?
    You're assuming this isn't some sort of multiple bodies situation. We have a few clues, but I'd still wait for more info before absolute confirmation.

  5. #1605
    Laurentis's family is his own Egg Theory.

  6. #1606
    Mario can control puppets, plus it could indeed be a case of things just coincidentally having them not be in the same place at the same time, backed by their influence and the already existing negative rumour to make it so people don't think twice.

  7. #1607
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishy-Washy View Post
    Mario can control puppets, plus it could indeed be a case of things just coincidentally having them not be in the same place at the same time, backed by their influence and the already existing negative rumour to make it so people don't think twice.
    This. Who knows what kind of situation it is 'exactly' or what cover is being used. Though I think the main concept is probably true about his real identity and affliction.

  8. #1608
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    That's interesting. If it's true, I wonder if he'll make an appearance
    Spoiler:
    in Record as a Pope if his backstory of adopting many children is unchanged. He could easily have a stand-in serves as a public face while hiding away his appearance, with few people including the Harweys know about it. Then again, it's also possible in Fate world he doesn't necessarily have that semi-immortality situation.



  9. #1609
    Oh, speaking of, I've been looking at the Tsuki Remake's Character Profiles and noticed something odd. Satsuki's original birthday according to KT was August 15th, but in the Remake it's been moved up to October 15th, the same (assumed) birth date as Shiki. It's possible it's a mistake, but I'm thinking it might be a plot point, after all it's an odd thing to change?
    Last edited by Base; September 28th, 2021 at 07:17 PM.

  10. #1610
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Oops, October isn't 8.

    Fixed:
    Satsuki: October 15th -> August 15th.
    Mario: October 3rd -> August 3rd.

    Shiki, Mio, and Arihiko were actually October birthdays tho.

  11. #1611
    Well, that's good to know. Glad we got that sorted out as soon as possible.

  12. #1612
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Man, I love how if you play through the game differently then when Shiki begins losing his mind there is eerily only Kohaku around to care for him.

    And then you realize everyone in the house has been dead for at least 2 days and Kohaku has been covering it.

    So many hints to the bizarre shit in this game.

  13. #1613
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Honestly, the most intriguing part of the interview to me was this:



    Mario is a character who is still hiding his secrets but Nasu already spread all the hints the player needs to figure everything out. In fact, Nasu already found (a) theory post(s) that got the answer completely right.

    Note also that the interview was published on the 28th but actually held on the 8th.

    With that information and a very convenient lack of costumers today, I could check every Mario theory tweeted up until the 8th and learn what Nasu was talking about here. The results were interesting. I was expecting to see multiple answers and not be sure which was right, but it turned out that while the posts were wildly different in amount and choice of evidence, most of them had the same conclusion, and many of the ones saying different things back then already evolved their theories in the direction of this unified answer we got. I'm very confident that what I'm posting here is the truth Nasu indirectly confirmed in the interview.

    Spoiler:
    I'll start with Mario/Laurentis's backstory as laid out by the VN. Laurentis was a model cardinal of the Holy Church, considered to be the ideal candidate to be the next Pope if it weren't for one fatal flaw. Laurentis adopted over 20 sons or grandsons under a pretense of charity, but the adopted children looked too much like Laurentis himself for people to buy that, so the rumor spread that he was this lustful man ignoring his chastity vows to bang every woman he found. That's all that's openly said and all else is implied.

    Mario's goal in Tsukihime is to find Roa and ask him about immortality, so he can either make his "(grand)father" Laurentis perfectly immortal, or remove his imperfect immortality (his curse of eternal youth). Roa's answer was that he became a vampire because it's impossible to get immortal while retaining his humanity, and the vulture who scavenged his documents and ignored this clearly written detail got what was coming to them.

    Later in Roa's flashback talk with Nrvnqsr, Roa explain to his friend that he shifted his research subjected from the body to the soul because "the 'eternal youth' he was working with was retrogression itself". So the conclusion of the theories is that Mario and all of his older brothers are actually Laurentis himself aging backwards like Benjamin Button because he used Roa's eternal youth magecraft without caring about the drawbacks.

    Most of the other bits of evidence presented around are mismatches in either time, relationships, and identity. Going over them one by one:

    - Time: Mario is stated to be 12 but claims to be acquainted with Arcueid and to have experience pacifying a rampaging True Ancestor before, but those are both impossible because Arcueid's last activity was 13 years before. He also called the brother saved by Ciel a "brat not even on his 20s", which a very unnatural thing for 12-year-old younger brother to say. In the confrontation against Roa, he also talks about not having much time left to live, even though he's the youngest character here.

    - Relationships: Arcueid and Ciel technically don't know Mario, but Mario talks to them like he knows them on a personal level, at least enough to recognize the huge changes in Arcueid's post-Shiki personality and say Ciel is "still merciless as always". He uses "reading his (grand)father's files" as an excuse for his knowledge, but Arcueid clearly recognizes him by the "familiar smell of a Laurentis child", and Ciel makes a point to compare him to the brother whose life she saved in their first encounter.

    - Identity: The thing I found the most curious about Mario in my own playthrough of Arc's route was how his motivations were completely not about himself. He was fighting for his father's goal as if they were his own. His hatred and disappointment at Roa's answer felt personal like he was the one who depended on it. In my playthrough I though he just loved his father that much, but the theory reframes his portrayal into something a lot more natural. And then there's his conversation with Shiki on the Ciel Normal End that practically spells everything out:


    Miscellaneous extra evidence:
    - Mario is constantly stated to be 12, but his materials list his age as "12-14 (estimated)".
    - One of his dislikes is "the brother immediately before him", instead of the much more naturally worded "the brother immediately older than him".
    - Laurentis is retired and hidden from the public.
    - Laurentis is described as "human manipulator", which is something Mario's Piano Machine makes literal.
    I talked to people on Discord about this when the interview came out and this is about the same conclusion we eventually reached.

    In other words; I think you are right.

  14. #1614
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrikow View Post
    I talked to people on Discord about this when the interview came out and this is about the same conclusion we eventually reached.

    In other words; I think you are right.
    Yeah, honestly makes Mario so interesting. What a good way to introduce the church. Imagine Shiki working under him kek. I feel like they'd get along really well.

  15. #1615
    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    "Suge’s personal favorite is Arcueid’s “I love him” scene. That’s a scene personally requested by Nasu to be added to the then finished script because of an inspiring line he read on volume 8 of the Tsukihime manga. And then he asked Kegani for the piano version of Seimeisen."

    So based. They are so upfront about their inspirations it's crazy to me



  16. #1616
    It was a very cute scene. One of the best.

  17. #1617
    other side of Red Garden AmADo VII's Avatar
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    we need to see more Church higher ups like cardinals or even pope himself.

    personally I want to see Noi and Andrei (2 tops of Burial Agency).

  18. #1618
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Isn't Noi the pope in Fate? At least in GO. That's a big diff from Tsuki. Maybe they opted to make him a monster of the burial agency for the setting dominated by apostles.

  19. #1619
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Does the Burial Agency even exist in non-Tsuki or mixed timelines, if Noi isn't in it in GO?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
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    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  20. #1620
    other side of Red Garden AmADo VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaya View Post
    Isn't Noi the pope in Fate? At least in GO. That's a big diff from Tsuki. Maybe they opted to make him a monster of the burial agency for the setting dominated by apostles.
    Noi was not Pope in FGO, Kotomine called him priest.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Does the Burial Agency even exist in non-Tsuki or mixed timelines, if Noi isn't in it in GO?
    Roa was the founder of BA so there's little chance it could not exist.

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