Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[Petrikow]

Keep in mind that there's a strange contradiction of the timing of when Roa reincarnates, for example it was 2001 when Roa Elesia participated in that ritual, but since the Remake is supposed to take place in 2014, that means SHIKI was already born by that point in time.

It appears to be the case that when a version of Roa dies, his next incarnation has potentially already been born. Most likely due to Reincarnation not being bound by time. Meaning that extra time could have compounded into the 800 years mentioned, if we include the time that Roa's original personalities have not yet been subsumed. Thoughts?

IIRC this is an issue present in the original as well. So I doubt the second part of your post serves as a possible explanation for this disparity.

So basically, barring True Ancestors, who are not undead to begin with, the more sapient the vampire, the more photosensitive they are? https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Dead_Apostle Seems to me, it's like: the more of your nervous system recovers, the more aware of the pain of decay that sunlight causes that you feel.

So basically:
1. Lower ranks don't have the nervous system to care.
2. Upper ranks have the power to overcome it.
3. Middle ranks have the sensitivity but not the power.

When Arcueid describes the Dead Apostle Rankings she says that by around Rank III they're still basically unbothered by sunlight, but by Rank V they start to get anemic from the Sun. Since the Rankings describe the "Severity/Depth of a Dead Apostle's Curse" its probably less something about their nerves, but rather that with the progression of their Curse, their vulnerability to the Sun increases.

Why would "moisture" be a warning if Sumire isn't present?

I feel like there are a little too few details here for us to draw such a conclusion. As we know, Arach is responsible for building stuff for the Tohno family. Perhaps it has something to do with what she's been creating. I mean, the land upon which the underground lair was built was something owned by Makihisa. Perhaps Arach is responsible for building it? Maybe she's done something similar around the Tohno mansion.

[Nanaya]

I don't think it's confirmed but it's a very solid guess at least. Based on what we knew. But it's possible that the line is intentionally misleading since Tohno story will probably be pretty different.

Don't forget that Vlov did retreat when the sun came up so it's still effective in some way to higher ranks. Even Arc isn't as perfect.

[Misaya]

I
Don't forget that Vlov did retreat when the sun came up so it's still effective in some way to higher ranks. Even Arc isn't as perfect.

Vlov still can fight one on one with Ciel until sunset then he become powerful. So basically, sun not much effect to him. Some are just annoy with sunlight rather than have much effect. As long as they have much blood, there is no problem for them. They just rather dont want to spend the whole reserve blood to walk in daylight, it should be use in emergency problem

[madarra]

Ignoring the timeline problem, like 15th century Roa being around for 800 years, it could be that the whole successor inheritance thing itself is new and Roa made it recently, like 200 years ago when he messed with Vlov

Arcs DAA list is outdated but we dont know how outdated, it obviously doesn't know about Vlov, but the excuse given is that Vlovs succession was a private affair. Im just kinda going with Arc still gets all her info on wake up from Merem.
You need a millennium-class foundation to inherit properly, but that just means being as powerfull as a 1000 year old vamp, not being a 1000 year old vamp.

Some of the DAA could be new to the list, Nrvnqsr is 1000 years old but might've become a DAA in the last 200 years after getting the trick from Roa.

I also want to point out that Ciels "use" of idea blood might imply that cooperation isnt needed to take it . Enhance being tormented by his Idea blood as well as his sword and gun isnt gonna be that much of a difference.

Successors might be part of the ranking now, with there being 50-ish of them around but they were just other 1000 year old or powerlevel DA before.

I guess i dont have much to say besides succession probably doesnt require complience. And based on XV's statement outright requires the death of the previous owner.

On a side note i was gonna bring up Phantom time hypothesis as a joke for the Church having Roa being 800 instead of 500 but i remembered it wrong and Phantom time's lost 3 centuries arent 3 centuries that happened that the Church deleted, its just skipping calendars forward 300 years, the years never happened.

[Petrikow]

Ignoring the timeline problem, like 15th century Roa being around for 800 years, it could be that the whole successor inheritance thing itself is new and Roa made it recently, like 200 years ago when he messed with Vlov

I don't know. Something about this just doesn't sit well with me.

Funnily enough, the 'youtube-dude' hypothesis regarding Principles and Idea Blood being fundamentally different is also something that doesn't quite sit well with me. The words are used way too interchangeably.

Yet the 'Mario-statement' (Idea Blood = Principle), 'Arcueid-statement' (Idea Blood = Ancestor Inheritance Method) and 'Roa-statement' (Principle =/= Inheritable) don't play well together.

There are too many times when Principle is conflated with Idea Blood, not to mention the damn name (原理血戒) for them to truly be fully independent of each other. At the very least, Idea Blood is some type of Principle, even if not exactly synonymous.

Say for example, that Idea Blood is a type of Principle given to the Ancestors by the Crimson Moon. For whatever reason, this type of Principle has been constructed by be inheritable (or perhaps, as they are not tied to an individual in the first place, do not get destroyed together with it, and as such are necessarily inheritable) while a normal type of Principle is just a Skill. Roa's research then somehow allows a Dead Apostle's 'innate Principle' (which contains their Skill) to be inherited alongside the Idea Blood. One could think of it as using the Idea Blood as a medium to transfer the Principle.

[madarra]

In Ciel route, when Shiki saw Vlovs source thingy with his eyes (boundary peak i guess) did he kill Idea Blood or Principle, later, was Ciel collecting Idea blood or Principle and again when Marios toads were looking for remnants did they say Idea Blood or Principle.

The first would be more relevant. Did Shiki kill Vlovs Principle but Ciel could still collect his Idea Blood or vis-versa (or did they just constantly flip flop on the name of it.

[Petrikow]

In Ciel route, when Shiki saw Vlovs source thingy with his eyes (boundary peak i guess) did he kill Idea Blood or Principle, later, was Ciel collecting Idea blood or Principle and again when Marios toads were looking for remnants did they say Idea Blood or Principle.

The first would be more relevant. Did Shiki kill Vlovs Principle but Ciel could still collect his Idea Blood or vis-versa (or did they just constantly flip flop on the name of it.

What Shiki saw:

　―――その果てに
―――As a result
　<原理|ひかり>を<知覚|み>た。
I

saw

perceived

the

light

Principle

.
　決して理解できぬもの。
That which is by no means meant to be understood.
・・・
　ああ―――これなら殺せる。
Indeed―――This one I can kill.
　言葉にできる原理なら、それは人間の範疇だ。
If it's a Principle expressible by words, then that is within human purview.

A Principle!

Or...?

「<原理血戒|イデアブラッド>―――」
Shiki: “Idea Blood―――”
　それは。
Is that...
　ヤツの最奥の<最中|さなか>にあった、あの底なしの“孔”の事か。
Talking about the bottomless "hole" that was within his innermost depths?

Idea Blood?

What Ciel used:

　血の煮こごりのような赤い果実。
A red fruit, likening jellied blood.
　それはヴローヴ・アルハンゲリを消し去った際、ただ一つ残された呪いの痕跡。
That which, upon Vlov Arkhangel’s eradication, was the sole remaining vestige of his curse.
　<原理血戒|イデアブラッド>と名付けられた、世界を侵す力の結晶。
The crystallization of power which infringes the world, given the name Idea Blood.

Idea Blood!

Or...? (the very next line)

「―――ヴローヴの原理は育ちきっていない。
　これを口にしても新しい大魔術は編み出せない。
　けれど―――」
Ciel: "Vlov's Principle has not fully matured.
Even if I consume it, I won't be able to fabricate a new Great Magecraft.
However…"

A Principle?

Perhaps this can give you an idea of why I can't buy that Idea Blood =/= Principle.

[AmADo VII]

perhaps because Idea Blood was still belong to Zaria?

and Vlov has his own principle?

[Petrikow]

Today (16th of October) is Mio's birthday.

Yesterday (15th of October) was Shiki's birthday.

Does it mean anything? Probably not!

[Reign]

So since Crimson Moon was the one who turned Zelretch into a DA, does that mean he has CM's Idea Blood the same way Vlov inherited Zaria's?

[Petrikow]

So since Crimson Moon was the one who turned Zelretch into a DA, does that mean he has CM's Idea Blood the same way Vlov inherited Zaria's?

All Ancestors have Idea Blood, that's what makes them an Ancestor. (per Arcueid)

Zelretch thus should have it. How exactly he got it is not something we can be entirely sure about. Maybe he took it from the previous Number 3 DAA? Or Crimson Moon biting him gave it to him directly? We can't know for now.

[AmADo VII]

is it possible to inherit idea blood just by injecting Ancestor's blood, or it's something only Arach can do.

[Petrikow]

is it possible to inherit idea blood just by injecting Ancestor's blood, or it's something only Arach can do.

In the first place, Arach's injection is not real Idea Blood. Its an Idea Replica.

[Reverse_side98]

Does a TA or DA siring a child imparts some of their powers to their children? Like do they get a bit weaker or something?

When roa stole much of arc's power does it have anything to do with arc turning him into a DA or is it thru some other means?

[aldeayeah]

Thinking about it a bit, Arach could be a puppet of the spider DAA, that would explain her ability to be inconspicuous (?), and the main body is somewhere else. Any clues pointing in that direction?

Only I can think of is the spider DAA CG where she has a bunch of smaller spiders dangling fron strings as if puppets, but as I mentioned that's stock Jorougumo iconography.

[Petrikow]

Does a TA or DA siring a child imparts some of their powers to their children? Like do they get a bit weaker or something?

When roa stole much of arc's power does it have anything to do with arc turning him into a DA or is it thru some other means?

Seems quite certain it simply was through the act of bloodsucking.

「……うん。志貴にはわたしがロアを追いかけている理由を話してなかったよね。
　その、実はね。わたし、ずっと昔に一度だけ人間の血を飲んだ事があったの。その時に力の一部をその人間に <奪|と>られてしまって、そいつはすごく強力な死徒になって」

More curiously, it is described that this act "connected their souls".

『不老不死になる為』に最も優れた真祖の<下僕|しもべ>になろうとした男は、
『最も優れた吸血種を陥れる為』に不老不死になった。
　ロアは己が吸血種だという事を知らないアルクェイドを<拐|かどわ>かし、自分の血を吸わせ、魂を結びつ けた。

The power Roa receives from Arcueid is a manifestation of this connection. The narration compares it to a contract. As long as Roa is alive, he'll borrow power from her.

　ロアの転生体を殺したところでアルクェイドとロアの主従関係は解約されない。
　けどロアが胎児に転生し、目覚めるまでは契約は一時的に無効になる。
　だからアルクェイドはロアが“目覚めない”と見つけられず、一時的な解決として転生体を殺すしかなかった 。
　それは今も例外じゃない。
　アイツは自分の力を使わせない為、ロアの転生体を生かしてはおけないんだ。
　それが根本的な解決ではない、一時のものであれ。

By killing Roa's current body, that 'contract' will temporarily become unavailable, and so even despite it not being a permanent solution to her problems, Arcueid will for some time, regain control of her powers. That is, until Roa awakens in his new body, at which point Arcueid will go out to hunt him once more.

[Alfredo845]

Who do you think will be in control during the Satsuki route? Roa or SHIKI? On the one hand SHIKI is always the one in control during the routes of the far side, but on the other Roa is the one who has a conection with Satsuki by turning her into a DA.

[Petrikow]

Who do you think will be in control during the Satsuki route? Roa or SHIKI? On the one hand SHIKI is always the one in control during the routes of the far side, but on the other Roa is the one who has a collection with Satsuki by turning her into a DA.

Despite being packaged together with the Far Side routes, the implication is that Satsuki route would be more in line with the Near Side routes, and so one would assume it will be Roa.

[AmADo VII]

assuming Satsuki will kill Roa in her route, wonder if Satsuki would inherit Arcueid's power.

[Misaya]

assuming Satsuki will kill Roa in her route, wonder if Satsuki would inherit Arcueid's power.

Clearly no. That is not how contract work. By killing Roa, the power will come back to Arcueid. That is what Shiki has done in Arcueid route.

Arcueid also can take it back by force if she wants. I dont think the other Arc would accept someone to have that power easily.