Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[LegalLoliLover]

It's more like when they realized that truth, that they are nothing more than killers. They chose to walk away from that line of work and thus lost their power. Like I said, for those types of jobs, there is no compassion. There is only "compassion" (note the quotation marks).

[Herod]

Anyway, I don't time to finish this conversation. I need to sleep.

[LegalLoliLover]

Just quote-reply when you can or whatever.

[asterism42]

Are you implying that the other families disappeared because they felt compassion for their enemies?

I believe they inbred themselves out of existence

[Crown]

god i wish that were me

Spoiler:

[LegalLoliLover]

I believe they inbred themselves out of existence

1. Nanaya - Yes, that was a factor. Getting smashed by the Tohno also helped. Now, the last son of the Nanaya has become the Tohno's pet. Delicious.
2. Fujou - Possibly. Now, its last members are the Tohno's pets. As you know, the Tohno are demon-blooded. Ironic.
3. Asagami - As I said, "faded away" doesn't necessarily as people, but as demon hunters. The Asagami today really want nothing to do with their ancestors.
4. Ryougi - The only ones who survived mostly intact, and even then, they are yakuza. They don't delude themselves into thinking that they are some kind of "noble order".

[Herod]

I still don't see how the extinct families had compassion for they enemies, or how this would have brought them to their end.

[Nanaya]

I still don't see how the extinct families had compassion for they enemies, or how this would have brought them to their end.

Because it's headcanon. The other families stepped away because the times were changing. They did it to survive as best they could. They weren't as necessary or effective as DH in a world where the mixed-bloods for the most part have already won because they have cleverly incorporated themselves into society as a necessary evil. Only one clan was markedly different. The best of the best of the DHO, the Nanaya, entirely based their existence on the extermination of demons so they didn't really have as much leeway or incentive to do the same. So they continued being the best, knowing that if they ever stopped, would be when their clan died. And that's what happened. Kiri decided to step away in order to give his son a chance at a different future. To see if he'd choose a different path. It wasn't out of compassion for his enemies, but for love of his son, really. Getting attacked by Tohno and left out to dry by the DHO would have probably resulted in an entirely different outcome had Kouma been killed of course... The only way you can argue 'compassion' killed them is because Kiri didn't murder the child Kouma. But that's kind of reaching I think because it's not that he particularly gave a shit about sparing a mixed blood. He just didn't want to kill a child. Blame his principles and not seeing the future clearly enough.

[LegalLoliLover]

I still don't see how the extinct families had compassion for they enemies, or how this would have brought them to their end.

Why are you so obsessed into thinking that these killers have any compassion at all? You seem convinced that these types of "noble" professionals actually have compassion. I'm saying that they don't. They only have "compassion" to convince themselves that they are better than the common assassin. They have no real compassion. They all realized this sooner or later. After which, they either abandoned that profession, causing their family to fall out of power, or continued that profession with the knowledge that they are no better than any other assassin. In the case of the Nanaya, they were also slaughtered by the Tohno whilst following that path.

It looks like you operate under the false impression that the DHO are better than the common killer. I operate under the impression that they are not. They just once thought that they were. You seem to think that the "justice" of the DHO or the Demon Slayer Corps is actually valid. I find it mockable. The survivors of those organizations also realized this sooner or later. Heh, mercifully, from what I understand, most of the Demon Slayer Corps in Kimetsu no Yaiba ended up dead before Muzan. IIRC, there was a quote in Xenosaga 3 saying that those who die before their beliefs do are the happy ones.

Because it's headcanon. The other families stepped away because the times were changing. They did it to survive as best they could. They weren't as necessary or effective as DH in a world where the mixed-bloods for the most part have already won because they have cleverly incorporated themselves into society as a necessary evil. Only one clan was markedly different. The best of the best of the DHO, the Nanaya, entirely based their existence on the extermination of demons so they didn't really have as much leeway or incentive to do the same.

Whose head canon? Herod's because he thinks that the DHO actually has compassion vs. thinking that they do? Yes, times changed. Back in the day, all demon hunters felt good about themselves because they could just tell themselves that they were "slaying monsters". Now, with most demons dead and the strongest ones blended into human society, the DHO members had to make the choice of casting aside their hero fantasies, fade away as "monster slayers", and live civilian lives or continue said fantasies be labeled the "villains" of this era, which is to say the vigilantes, the terrorists, and the crime organizations. However, despite the times, their very deeds never changed. It's just that the changing of those times forced them to take a good hard look at themselves.

[Herod]

I don't think they are noble or in the right or whatever and I don't know anymore why you did mention them in the first place.

[Nanaya]

Aren't you focused on compassion yourself? I don't think that it has much to do with convincing themselves that they are noble. Their actions are just a matter of practicality. And to be fair, that organization exists because mixed-bloods very easily start racking up body counts in the hundreds. The hit went out on Saiki specifically because of that. It's not like they are all benign beings.

[LegalLoliLover]

How many times did I use quotation marks? Punctuation matters. I'm not the sort to capitalize or use punctuation marks without good reason.

I don't think that it has much to do with convincing themselves that they are noble. Their actions are just a matter of practicality.

I also mentioned Tanjiro and the Demon Slayer Corps of Kimetsu no Yaiba there when we were talking about Noel. But yes, I understand that there are those who consider Tanjiro's "compassion" valid. I don't. Therefore, I respect Noel, who simply doesn't bother with that nonsense, to be more respectable... And now, I've repeated myself. And now, watch as people ignore my punctuation marks yet again.

[Nanaya]

I'm just saying I think your ascribing qualities onto these people that don't exist. I don't remember the kind of sparkly introspection you're mentioning. Did such thoughts even factor into their decisions to be DH in the first place or to quit? I think it was purely business and necessity to kill demons and certain hybrids in the past. Just as it was business and necessity to fuck off from it all in the common era is what I'm saying.

[Dullahan]

fact: the DHO families have only ever been depicted or described in tm works in an advanced stage of dissolution. everything "known" about them reflects this. all the rest - including anything that might be claimed about what they were like "in their prime" - is inference, guesswork, and Nasu's answers at Q&A sessions (jokes). that is all

[LegalLoliLover]

I also mentioned Tanjiro and the Demon Slayer Corps of Kimetsu no Yaiba there when we were talking about Noel.

Going back to my previous statement about those admitting their selfishness being the most moral, a more specific example is that I at least respect Noel more than Tanjiro (Kimetsu no Yaiba).
Like I said, what I call "paladin's mercy" is worthless. Shedding a tear for an enemy that you yourself killed does nothing for that enemy. It's a self-delusion to make yourself seem better than a common murderer. Compared to that, it's better to have no mercy at all, just like Noel.

Here I am quoting myself. Admittedly, this is less head canon and more generalization based on several other similar organizations (another example in Skyrim: "For those who cherish memories of loved ones, their compassion often conceals the beast. Our compassion compels us to destroy it.")

fact: the DHO families have only ever been depicted or described in tm works in an advanced stage of dissolution. everything "known" about them reflects this. all the rest - including anything that might be claimed about what they were like "in their prime" - is inference, guesswork, and Nasu's answers at Q&A sessions (jokes). that is all

Actually, it might be a good idea to have some kind of side story, regarding the DHO during their "golden age". Might be amusing to see them have the hope and feeling of righteousness that we know will be pulled out from under them eventually.

[Comun]

If I'm getting it right, the point is that fumigation professionals need to become hitmen after rats and cockroaches are extinct, or else they'll convince themselves that it was about pest control all along, instead of opening their hearts to the truth that it was actually about the murder.

[LegalLoliLover]

First of all, how much do fumigation professionals make, both in money, influence, sense of good feeling, etc.? Secondly, do they want to maintain that high? Last time that I checked the Big Blue Bug people don't even own a single mansion (western-style or eastern-style). Also, generally speaking, demons, especially hybrids, are more sapient than bugs.

[Dullahan]

how about you go write a fanfic where your interpretation of the DHO is true? it would save a lot of trouble going forward

[LegalLoliLover]

I'd prefer to wait for the canon, if you're talking about golden age DHO. Otherwise, I'll just use the Demon Slayer Corps from Kimetsu no Yaiba as placeholders.

[Dullahan]

but why though