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Thread: Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

  1. #801
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Dartz's Avatar
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    I liked the epilogue in the manga. They could always explain it with Arc not needing to restrain her bloodlust inside the castle. There were some lines about that in the first Melty.
    The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
    For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
    Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.

    Tsukihime 2 Prelude III

  2. #802
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    Curious to see if Nasu does anything with the DAA that Ciel already killed. Having multiple Idea Blood in the city would be perfect TATARI fodder for a future installment of Melty Blood.

  3. #803
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuhanyou View Post
    It's not like tsukihime didn't have an epilogue in the manga to begin with so I'm expecting it later on. Since nasu liked it so much to begin with. Just a matter of time I'd say. I'd be suprised otherwise.

    Getting rid of arcueids good end would make sense then. And I expected them to get rid of ciels good end to begin with since it was just so bad
    True, but I was just saying that Nasu seems to really like that setup regardless for when a protag and magical girlfriend get split up, so I was expecting him to keep it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  4. #804
    Wings of the Sunlit Sky Hermitfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Huh.. either Nasu thinks Good End, which is where Arcueid is able to restrain her urge, is just unlikely now or something like Last Episode is prepared for her. then again, adding Good or True is irrelevant when it's only just one End.
    If Arcueid Good End was possible, then Grandpa Zel would make sure that became the one and only timeline, so Nasu had to cut it.

  5. #805
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    There's a character I forgot about. Does he play any role in the remake?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

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    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz View Post
    I liked the epilogue in the manga. They could always explain it with Arc not needing to restrain her bloodlust inside the castle. There were some lines about that in the first Melty.

    My question if they decided do this is if they are going to reuse old tsuki 2 concepts with satsujinki and trying to go around trying to cure her bloodlust



  7. #807
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    True, but I was just saying that Nasu seems to really like that setup regardless for when a protag and magical girlfriend get split up, so I was expecting him to keep it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?
    Is it Idea Blood that boosts a DA into becoming a DAA?

  8. #808
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Based on the glossary entry Left translated, then seemingly yes. Also, based on what Arc apparently told Shiki about the matter. It seems the Idea Blood functions as a DAA's "crown".
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  9. #809
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Based on the glossary entry Left translated, then seemingly yes. Also, based on what Arc apparently told Shiki about the matter. It seems the Idea Blood functions as a DAA's "crown".
    Considering Nasu wanted to boost Tsukihime's power level due to Fate's increasing power levels, have we seen concepts similar to Idea Blood in earlier Fate or Tsukihime stuff?

  10. #810
    一心浄土 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?
    This is me guessing, but it might have something to do with Idea Blood's nature itself. Here's a rough translation of these 2 key statements:
    「魂に刻まれてしまった大本の戒め。 それぞれ戴いた真理、渇きの根底となる世界観。
     その血を巡らせるだけで惑星の物理法則を塗り替える特異点。
     原理血戒―――イデアブラッド」
    "The commandment of the foundation that is engraved into the soul. The truth that each received respectively, the 世界観 (it should mean world view but I think it has deeper meaning than that here) that became the origin of their thirst. A Singularity that rewrites the physical law of the planet just by circulating blood. 原理血戒 - Idea Blood"


    星の内海、ソラを覆う天蓋は謳う。 祖に呪いあれ。 人の世に呪いあれ。
     いまだ原理は定着せず。この星の
    いしずえ
    はあまりに脆い。
    "Inner Sea of the Planet, the canopy covering the sky proclaims. Curse the Ancestor, curse the human world. The principle has yet to be established. The foundation of this planet is too fragile."

    From both statements, it seems that the Idea Blood is a kind of principal that directly antagonize the law of physics - which we knew in FGO to also be the Texture of the human world, and is part of the Human Order (jinri 人理 - it shares the kanji 理 with 原理 from Idea Blood). Additionally, Nasu said the Human Order is <redacted> in Tsukihime world, so the DAAs can grow strong. So I think because the foundation (Human Order) in Tsukihime timeline is too "fragile" as per the line above, it allowed Idea Blood to be able to interfere and dominate humanity. This is also why there is no heroic spirit summoning in Tsuki, because heroic spirits are directly etched into the Human Order.

    OTOH, in Fate worlds, the Human Order is strong enough to suppress this Idea Blood foundation, making the DAA candidates unable to rise as a group.


    夢想一心

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    祖 Ancestor OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Mother Gaia too stronk here
    My current support slots


    Record so far

  12. #812
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

    I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

    Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

    So overall, what does it really mean?

    I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.
    Last edited by warellis; August 28th, 2021 at 10:04 PM.

  13. #813
    whydunit Reign's Avatar
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    Makes me wonder how Principles work in Fate worlds. If Idea Blood is (probably) suppressed, then for example would Fate!Vlov have his Coldness Principle or not?

  14. #814
    一心浄土 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warellis View Post
    Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

    I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

    Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

    So overall, what does it really mean?

    I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.
    My guess is it also affects the manifestation of the Beasts. Beasts manifest only when mankind developed to a certain extent, as they grow stronger in according to the power of humanity. Ishtar in Babylonia wondered if Tiamat was summoned by the Human Order or by Solomon. Goetia was a system to observe the Human Order went rogue. Primate Murder/Fou grows stronger with the competition of humans. Gil said that the Beast is basically the origin of Heroic Spirit summoning iirc.

    So if mankind failed to develop too much, world-ending threats like the Beast probably cannot manifest in Tsukihime world at all (but they get other threats like the DAAs, fair trade?). In the old Melty Blood, Arc mentioned a "Ancient I" who tried to overcome death but failed, which ppl speculated to be Tsuki world's Goetia.

    Now I need to know whether Tsuki world Kiara actually still qualify as a Beast or Beast candidates in Tsuki world can still turn into Beasts.


    夢想一心

  15. #815
    改造魔 Comun's Avatar
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    Finished Day 4. I thought the weekend would be my opportunity to escape the "1 in-game day per IRL day" pace, but this one was super long. Still, the presentation for the big vampire exposition was excellent, the new "shark ending" is not nearly as dumb as the original shark ending but appropriately dumb enough, and Vlov, while still not showing enough personality, gains big bonus points for being Kenjirou Tsuda.

  16. #816
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    This is me guessing, but it might have something to do with Idea Blood's nature itself. Here's a rough translation of these 2 key statements:

    "The commandment of the foundation that is engraved into the soul. The truth that each received respectively, the 世界観 (it should mean world view but I think it has deeper meaning than that here) that became the origin of their thirst. A Singularity that rewrites the physical law of the planet just by circulating blood. 原理血戒 - Idea Blood"



    "Inner Sea of the Planet, the canopy covering the sky proclaims. Curse the Ancestor, curse the human world. The principle has yet to be established. The foundation of this planet is too fragile."

    From both statements, it seems that the Idea Blood is a kind of principal that directly antagonize the law of physics - which we knew in FGO to also be the Texture of the human world, and is part of the Human Order (jinri 人理 - it shares the kanji 理 with 原理 from Idea Blood). Additionally, Nasu said the Human Order is <redacted> in Tsukihime world, so the DAAs can grow strong. So I think because the foundation (Human Order) in Tsukihime timeline is too "fragile" as per the line above, it allowed Idea Blood to be able to interfere and dominate humanity. This is also why there is no heroic spirit summoning in Tsuki, because heroic spirits are directly etched into the Human Order.

    OTOH, in Fate worlds, the Human Order is strong enough to suppress this Idea Blood foundation, making the DAA candidates unable to rise as a group.
    Thanks for that. Clearly, the divergence between the two types of worlds happened relatively early in the AoM, and it goes deeper than just Heroic Spirits and DAAs. Also, is the Idea Blood directly tied to Crimson Moon, or is it simply the commandment of the specific Ancestor's bloodlust that rewrites the laws of nature?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by warellis View Post
    Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

    I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

    Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

    So overall, what does it really mean?

    I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.
    I guess that the whole end of the world and the Sixth is not a factor in Fate, that's why Zepia is not mad there.

    I mean, we know that the point where Fate and Tsukihime worlds diverge is the battle between Zelretch and Brunestud, so all of it probably has to be with Crimson Moon. Maybe in Fate, Brunestud is permadeath and in Tsukihime lingers through Idea Blood and the True Ancestors so there is another concept that antagonizes mankind as the ruler of the planet?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Thanks for that. Clearly, the divergence between the two types of worlds happened relatively early in the AoM, and it goes deeper than just Heroic Spirits and DAAs. Also, is the Idea Blood directly tied to Crimson Moon, or is it simply the commandment of the specific Ancestor's bloodlust that rewrites the laws of nature?
    In Case Files Zepia directly says the divergence was around 1700 years ago.
    Last edited by yokushi; August 28th, 2021 at 10:22 PM.

  18. #818
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    My guess is it also affects the manifestation of the Beasts. Beasts manifest only when mankind developed to a certain extent, as they grow stronger in according to the power of humanity. Ishtar in Babylonia wondered if Tiamat was summoned by the Human Order or by Solomon. Goetia was a system to observe the Human Order went rogue. Primate Murder/Fou grows stronger with the competition of humans. Gil said that the Beast is basically the origin of Heroic Spirit summoning iirc.

    So if mankind failed to develop too much, world-ending threats like the Beast probably cannot manifest in Tsukihime world at all (but they get other threats like the DAAs, fair trade?). In the old Melty Blood, Arc mentioned a "Ancient I" who tried to overcome death but failed, which ppl speculated to be Tsuki world's Goetia.

    Now I need to know whether Tsuki world Kiara actually still qualify as a Beast or Beast candidates in Tsuki world can still turn into Beasts.
    I thought CT 2015 also went into this when the Tsuki Lev committed suicide and prevented himself from becoming a Demon Pillar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  19. #819
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Finished Day 4. I thought the weekend would be my opportunity to escape the "1 in-game day per IRL day" pace, but this one was super long. Still, the presentation for the big vampire exposition was excellent, the new "shark ending" is not nearly as dumb as the original shark ending but appropriately dumb enough, and Vlov, while still not showing enough personality, gains big bonus points for being Kenjirou Tsuda.
    How is it less dumb now? The first one was hilarious with how you could get eaten by a land shark on like the 10th floor.

  20. #820
    whydunit Reign's Avatar
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    Well presumably there's no actual shark involved this time without Nrvnqsr.

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