Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[Dartz]

I liked the epilogue in the manga. They could always explain it with Arc not needing to restrain her bloodlust inside the castle. There were some lines about that in the first Melty.

[Quoren]

Curious to see if Nasu does anything with the DAA that Ciel already killed. Having multiple Idea Blood in the city would be perfect TATARI fodder for a future installment of Melty Blood.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

It's not like tsukihime didn't have an epilogue in the manga to begin with so I'm expecting it later on. Since nasu liked it so much to begin with. Just a matter of time I'd say. I'd be suprised otherwise.

Getting rid of arcueids good end would make sense then. And I expected them to get rid of ciels good end to begin with since it was just so bad

True, but I was just saying that Nasu seems to really like that setup regardless for when a protag and magical girlfriend get split up, so I was expecting him to keep it.

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Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?

[Hermitfold]

Huh.. either Nasu thinks Good End, which is where Arcueid is able to restrain her urge, is just unlikely now or something like Last Episode is prepared for her. then again, adding Good or True is irrelevant when it's only just one End.

If Arcueid Good End was possible, then Grandpa Zel would make sure that became the one and only timeline, so Nasu had to cut it.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

There's a character I forgot about. Does he play any role in the remake?

[Inuhanyou]

I liked the epilogue in the manga. They could always explain it with Arc not needing to restrain her bloodlust inside the castle. There were some lines about that in the first Melty.

My question if they decided do this is if they are going to reuse old tsuki 2 concepts with satsujinki and trying to go around trying to cure her bloodlust

[warellis]

True, but I was just saying that Nasu seems to really like that setup regardless for when a protag and magical girlfriend get split up, so I was expecting him to keep it.

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Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?

Is it Idea Blood that boosts a DA into becoming a DAA?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Based on the glossary entry Left translated, then seemingly yes. Also, based on what Arc apparently told Shiki about the matter. It seems the Idea Blood functions as a DAA's "crown".

[warellis]

Based on the glossary entry Left translated, then seemingly yes. Also, based on what Arc apparently told Shiki about the matter. It seems the Idea Blood functions as a DAA's "crown".

Considering Nasu wanted to boost Tsukihime's power level due to Fate's increasing power levels, have we seen concepts similar to Idea Blood in earlier Fate or Tsukihime stuff?

[Lily Emilio]

Also, I must ask again, but if the DAAs as a group don't exist in Fate worlds, does that mean Fate vampires never develop Idea Blood no matter how powerful they get?

This is me guessing, but it might have something to do with Idea Blood's nature itself. Here's a rough translation of these 2 key statements:

「魂に刻まれてしまった大本の戒め。　それぞれ戴いた真理、渇きの根底となる世界観。
　その血を巡らせるだけで惑星の物理法則を塗り替える特異点。
　原理血戒―――イデアブラッド」

"The commandment of the foundation that is engraved into the soul. The truth that each received respectively, the 世界観 (it should mean world view but I think it has deeper meaning than that here) that became the origin of their thirst. A Singularity that rewrites the physical law of the planet just by circulating blood. 原理血戒 - Idea Blood"

星の内海、ソラを覆う天蓋は謳う。　祖に呪いあれ。　人の世に呪いあれ。
　いまだ原理は定着せず。この星の

いしずえ

礎

はあまりに脆い。

"Inner Sea of the Planet, the canopy covering the sky proclaims. Curse the Ancestor, curse the human world. The principle has yet to be established. The foundation of this planet is too fragile."

From both statements, it seems that the Idea Blood is a kind of principal that directly antagonize the law of physics - which we knew in FGO to also be the Texture of the human world, and is part of the Human Order (jinri 人理 - it shares the kanji 理 with 原理 from Idea Blood). Additionally, Nasu said the Human Order is <redacted> in Tsukihime world, so the DAAs can grow strong. So I think because the foundation (Human Order) in Tsukihime timeline is too "fragile" as per the line above, it allowed Idea Blood to be able to interfere and dominate humanity. This is also why there is no heroic spirit summoning in Tsuki, because heroic spirits are directly etched into the Human Order.

OTOH, in Fate worlds, the Human Order is strong enough to suppress this Idea Blood foundation, making the DAA candidates unable to rise as a group.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Mother Gaia too stronk here

[warellis]

Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

So overall, what does it really mean?

I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.

[Reign]

Makes me wonder how Principles work in Fate worlds. If Idea Blood is (probably) suppressed, then for example would Fate!Vlov have his Coldness Principle or not?

[Lily Emilio]

Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

So overall, what does it really mean?

I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.

My guess is it also affects the manifestation of the Beasts. Beasts manifest only when mankind developed to a certain extent, as they grow stronger in according to the power of humanity. Ishtar in Babylonia wondered if Tiamat was summoned by the Human Order or by Solomon. Goetia was a system to observe the Human Order went rogue. Primate Murder/Fou grows stronger with the competition of humans. Gil said that the Beast is basically the origin of Heroic Spirit summoning iirc.

So if mankind failed to develop too much, world-ending threats like the Beast probably cannot manifest in Tsukihime world at all (but they get other threats like the DAAs, fair trade?). In the old Melty Blood, Arc mentioned a "Ancient I" who tried to overcome death but failed, which ppl speculated to be Tsuki world's Goetia.

Now I need to know whether Tsuki world Kiara actually still qualify as a Beast or Beast candidates in Tsuki world can still turn into Beasts.

[Comun]

Finished Day 4. I thought the weekend would be my opportunity to escape the "1 in-game day per IRL day" pace, but this one was super long. Still, the presentation for the big vampire exposition was excellent, the new "shark ending" is not nearly as dumb as the original shark ending but appropriately dumb enough, and Vlov, while still not showing enough personality, gains big bonus points for being Kenjirou Tsuda.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

This is me guessing, but it might have something to do with Idea Blood's nature itself. Here's a rough translation of these 2 key statements:

"The commandment of the foundation that is engraved into the soul. The truth that each received respectively, the 世界観 (it should mean world view but I think it has deeper meaning than that here) that became the origin of their thirst. A Singularity that rewrites the physical law of the planet just by circulating blood. 原理血戒 - Idea Blood"



"Inner Sea of the Planet, the canopy covering the sky proclaims. Curse the Ancestor, curse the human world. The principle has yet to be established. The foundation of this planet is too fragile."

From both statements, it seems that the Idea Blood is a kind of principal that directly antagonize the law of physics - which we knew in FGO to also be the Texture of the human world, and is part of the Human Order (jinri 人理 - it shares the kanji 理 with 原理 from Idea Blood). Additionally, Nasu said the Human Order is <redacted> in Tsukihime world, so the DAAs can grow strong. So I think because the foundation (Human Order) in Tsukihime timeline is too "fragile" as per the line above, it allowed Idea Blood to be able to interfere and dominate humanity. This is also why there is no heroic spirit summoning in Tsuki, because heroic spirits are directly etched into the Human Order.

OTOH, in Fate worlds, the Human Order is strong enough to suppress this Idea Blood foundation, making the DAA candidates unable to rise as a group.

Thanks for that. Clearly, the divergence between the two types of worlds happened relatively early in the AoM, and it goes deeper than just Heroic Spirits and DAAs. Also, is the Idea Blood directly tied to Crimson Moon, or is it simply the commandment of the specific Ancestor's bloodlust that rewrites the laws of nature?

[yokushi]

Overall for humanity, what exactly does it mean when the Human Order is weak or strong, besides Servants being able to summoned?

I mean, in Tsukihime, the OG one, I don't really remember the DAAs being like say the Kindred of Vampire The Masquerade and running everything behind the scenes.

Is the world more fucked up somehow thanks to that? I don't remember say Arcueid and TAs just ruling over everything as they rolled back humanity or whatever.

So overall, what does it really mean?

I know I'm probably asking far too early, but there doesn't seem to be really big changes as a result of this, that affect relatively daily normal life.

I guess that the whole end of the world and the Sixth is not a factor in Fate, that's why Zepia is not mad there.

I mean, we know that the point where Fate and Tsukihime worlds diverge is the battle between Zelretch and Brunestud, so all of it probably has to be with Crimson Moon. Maybe in Fate, Brunestud is permadeath and in Tsukihime lingers through Idea Blood and the True Ancestors so there is another concept that antagonizes mankind as the ruler of the planet?

Thanks for that. Clearly, the divergence between the two types of worlds happened relatively early in the AoM, and it goes deeper than just Heroic Spirits and DAAs. Also, is the Idea Blood directly tied to Crimson Moon, or is it simply the commandment of the specific Ancestor's bloodlust that rewrites the laws of nature?

In Case Files Zepia directly says the divergence was around 1700 years ago.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

My guess is it also affects the manifestation of the Beasts. Beasts manifest only when mankind developed to a certain extent, as they grow stronger in according to the power of humanity. Ishtar in Babylonia wondered if Tiamat was summoned by the Human Order or by Solomon. Goetia was a system to observe the Human Order went rogue. Primate Murder/Fou grows stronger with the competition of humans. Gil said that the Beast is basically the origin of Heroic Spirit summoning iirc.

So if mankind failed to develop too much, world-ending threats like the Beast probably cannot manifest in Tsukihime world at all (but they get other threats like the DAAs, fair trade?). In the old Melty Blood, Arc mentioned a "Ancient I" who tried to overcome death but failed, which ppl speculated to be Tsuki world's Goetia.

Now I need to know whether Tsuki world Kiara actually still qualify as a Beast or Beast candidates in Tsuki world can still turn into Beasts.

I thought CT 2015 also went into this when the Tsuki Lev committed suicide and prevented himself from becoming a Demon Pillar.

[warellis]

Finished Day 4. I thought the weekend would be my opportunity to escape the "1 in-game day per IRL day" pace, but this one was super long. Still, the presentation for the big vampire exposition was excellent, the new "shark ending" is not nearly as dumb as the original shark ending but appropriately dumb enough, and Vlov, while still not showing enough personality, gains big bonus points for being Kenjirou Tsuda.

How is it less dumb now? The first one was hilarious with how you could get eaten by a land shark on like the 10th floor.

[Reign]

Well presumably there's no actual shark involved this time without Nrvnqsr.