Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

In Case Files Zepia directly says the divergence was around 1700 years ago.

I see. Still, I wonder what events played out differently to ensure a different outcome 1700 years ago?

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Also, with all these fundamental differences between Fate and Tsukihime worlds, how the hell could a mixed world work? I know FSF is the main example, but I thought Fate/Labyrinth is also a mixed world?

[OnesFleetingGlory]

My guess is it also affects the manifestation of the Beasts. Beasts manifest only when mankind developed to a certain extent, as they grow stronger in according to the power of humanity. Ishtar in Babylonia wondered if Tiamat was summoned by the Human Order or by Solomon. Goetia was a system to observe the Human Order went rogue. Primate Murder/Fou grows stronger with the competition of humans. Gil said that the Beast is basically the origin of Heroic Spirit summoning iirc.

So if mankind failed to develop too much, world-ending threats like the Beast probably cannot manifest in Tsukihime world at all (but they get other threats like the DAAs, fair trade?). In the old Melty Blood, Arc mentioned a "Ancient I" who tried to overcome death but failed, which ppl speculated to be Tsuki world's Goetia.

Now I need to know whether Tsuki world Kiara actually still qualify as a Beast or Beast candidates in Tsuki world can still turn into Beasts.

I speculate that with Gaia cares only to preserve the planet and indifferent to humanity, a weaker Alaya means the possible absence of Counter Guardians and Grands. My speculation would be that progress in humanity isn't to the point to warrant a Beast Advent, so both "threat" and "insurance" somehow even itself out? Instead, Gaia's agents made up the majority of Counter Force, like TAs and Elementals, to protect the planet.

[Comun]

How is it less dumb now? The first one was hilarious with how you could get eaten by a land shark on like the 10th floor.

Yeah, no sharks this time. Vlov just sends his two dog familiars like he does normally, but since doesn't go outside to kill them with Death Perception, Arcueid is the one who tears the dogs apart with her claws, causing the fire stored inside the dog to turn Shiki to ash.

[Reign]

I see. Still, I wonder what events played out differently to ensure a different outcome 1700 years ago?

1700 years ago was also Zelretch vs Crimson Moon so it has something to do with that battle. We also know from the recent Heaven's Feel Q&A that Zelretch did not become a DA in Fate worlds.

[Hermitfold]

I remember hearing somewhere that some people came and helped Zel in Fate worlds so he could kill off Brunestud completely, but I'm not sure of the validity of this.

[Lily Emilio]

Or he's just more powerful in Fate worlds, considering that he is still immortal without having to become a DA. Maybe he went to China and discovered the immortality art of the Xians

[Rafflesiac]

Yeah, no sharks this time. Vlov just sends his two dog familiars like he does normally, but since doesn't go outside to kill them with Death Perception, Arcueid is the one who tears the dogs apart with her claws, causing the fire stored inside the dog to turn Shiki to ash.

Okay, that's great.

Molotov dogs, that's an entirely different great from a land shark.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Or he's just more powerful in Fate worlds, considering that he is still immortal without having to become a DA. Maybe he went to China and discovered the immortality art of the Xians

Or maybe he didn't become a DA because Crimson Moon couldn't bite him/suck his blood. It is still possible he learned methods of immortality from the Xians. If QSH could do it, so could Zel.

[Lily Emilio]

Or maybe he didn't become a DA because Crimson Moon couldn't bite him/suck his blood. It is still possible he learned methods of immortality from the Xians. If QSH could do it, so could Zel.

I was joking obviously, but I'm going to call him Duoyuzhou Wanhua Zhenren from now on until Nasu prove me wrong. Zhenren sounds kinda like Zelretch anw.

[Asunder]

I remember hearing somewhere that some people came and helped Zel in Fate worlds so he could kill off Brunestud completely, but I'm not sure of the validity of this.

In Fate worldlines, Zelretch was helped in his fight against Crimson Moon by a mysterious blonde swordswoman wearing a baseball cap who mistook Crimson Moon for a Saber.

[Sssgth]

For those unfamiliar with moonrunes, the “原理血戒” in “原理血戒 - Idea Blood” translates roughly to “original order blood commandment,” which, as Emilio said, suggests that DAAs have some innate tie to Gaia. Makes me wonder why PM is no longer a DAA, being the Beast of Gaia and all

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Maybe because PM is firmly a Beast now?

[Kamera]

Maybe in this tsuki timeline PM is also a harmless fluffball

[Alfredo845]

It's probably because it's something unique to DAs and other types of bloodsuckers, and that it can also be acquired by beings capable of absorbing traits like ORT, while PM is neither.

[Leftovers]

For those unfamiliar with moonrunes, the “原理血戒” in “原理血戒 - Idea Blood” translates roughly to “original order blood commandment,” which, as Emilio said, suggests that DAAs have some innate tie to Gaia.

Nah.

[Reign]

I assume Fou got kicked because he isn't even actually a vampire, he just started drinking blood because Altrouge was doing it.

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ORT meanwhile presumably got the Idea Blood of the DAA it killed.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

The question is how Idea Blood even came to be. Could be there are DAs who has it naturally upon being turned by TAs, and it's only exclusive to those 27 or so, unless TAs make another DA. Or if Idea Blood is even needed at all for DAA title, like Roa's case only considered as such by Church.

[Lily Emilio]

「―――ところでアルクェイド。魔術世界における生命の質量定義は知っていますね？」
生命そのものが持つエネルギー生産量、もしくは質量を段階として定義したものです。
　その基準はシンプルで、

おおきさ

規模

と

おもさ

重量

とで計られます」
「一番強いものが“小さくて重いもの”。
　二番目に強いものが“大きくて重いもの”。
　三番目が“小さくて軽いもの”。これは人間ですね。
　そして最後に“大きくて軽いもの”。これは情報や噂話、幽霊といった広範囲に拡がるものです 」

Huh...interesting.

[Comun]

I remember hearing somewhere that some people came and helped Zel in Fate worlds so he could kill off Brunestud completely, but I'm not sure of the validity of this.

In uninterrupted lineages, people are taught the importance of Magic and Zelretch's name since childhood. It's possible (but not likely) that countryside clans or still underdeveloped lineages will know the definition of magician without knowing Zelretch's name. They'd only know that in the Clock Tower there was this big shot magician who rallied the world of magecraft together for a fight a long, long time ago and he's still alive. Upon entering the Clock Tower, you'll inevitably start hearing Zelretch's name a lot, and once you climb to the rank of Cause, you'll get to know the name of another magician, Yumina.

It is still possible he learned methods of immortality from the Xians.

Isn't Second Magic enough for immortality?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Now that I think about it, it probably is, but maybe more in a Funny Valentine sense?