Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

[alienncoww]

I see, thanks Petrikow! That should be the reason why I've seen people wondering if Shiki used to play shiritori with 1/SHIKI and Akiha or 2/Hisui or 3/someone else in the Nanaya house

[warellis]

Ciel day 7

This feels like the last piece in the Sumire puzzle to me.

Being able to cross running water made it difficult to operate on the land -> Arach constantly mentions skipping work.

Approachable older lady, seemingly always drunk -> In their first conversation, Shiki already accuses her of being drunk

Has a castle but leaves it abandoned -> Is living in the Toono residence

Lethally close friends with Rita -> Arach walks around carrying Rita's Idea Blood

Drunk flirting with Shiki -> She already starts her second scene calling Shiki a whore

Gets sober with she goes without moisture -> Arach claims she doesn't drink in both routes, and Ciel's she jokes to about being high on something else. Then Arcueid's "the moisture is unbearable" is the smoking gun.

Every bit of Sumire's old glossary entry has already being addressed, except "Only Dead Apostle who can Marble Phantasm", and "overcame the running water weakness".

Makes me wonder how the hell did she wind up friends/associates with a bunch of oni hybrids in the Far East of all places.

Then again, assuming she is Sumire, maybe her "friendship" or whatever association she had with Makihisa was mostly BS.

[aldeayeah]

I just made a little discovery that may be obvious for a Japanese reader.

The jorougumo (female spider youkai) is depicted in a very famous 18th century picture book as a large humanoid spider, manipulating several smaller spiders as if puppets on strings



Now, does this ring a bell?



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This Japanese folklore connection would point towards the spider DAA being active in (or even native to) Japan.

Which in turn could explain how she (or an acolyte of hers) would be likely to be buddy-buddy with the Tohno and other demon folk.

Also, for the record, (quote Wikipedia) "[a jorougumo] can shapeshift into a beautiful woman."

[Bobin]

I feel silly now. Didn’t even realize that those were tiny little spiders dangling off the strings, or the obvious silhouette of torso with boobs sticking out in the center until you pointed it out.

[aldeayeah]

no shame there Bobin, the original CG is a huge pic and there's a lot going on

[asterism42]

It doesn't really explain the Arachnid motifs.

Diving bell spider

[Gabriulio]

I'd say it'd be funny if the Jorougumo thing were true and we have a DAA native to Japan, which would mean Japan has both a user of True Magic and a DAA and yet it's still considered a backwater country but Sumire's name already implies that she's native to Japan anyway soooo...

[Petrikow]

I'd say it'd be funny if the Jorougumo thing were true and we have a DAA native to Japan, which would mean Japan has both a user of True Magic and a DAA and yet it's still considered a backwater country but Sumire's name already implies that she's native to Japan anyway soooo...

Just like TATARI.

Hmm wait no.

[Gabriulio]

Fuck, now I'm convinced Arach is Sumire...

"She is known as a vampire who lives underwater, having conquered the traditional vampire weakness of being unable to cross bodies of water."



(Yes, I know those are two different species of spider)

[aldeayeah]

I see the arguments for Arach=Spidertits and Arach=Sumire, but is there's any evidence for Sumire=Spidertits?

I mean, one would think the past material would have mentioned Sumire being a goddamn giant spider.

Sure there are spiders that live in water, but when one thinks of a spider, water-dwelling isn't really what comes to mind.

[Leftovers]

As I see it the only real question mark that vaguely points to Sumire is where she got bootleg Rita blood from, everything else is non-substantial to the point you could equally argue she's some Tohno-associated youkai or hybrid if not for the spidertits silhouette.

[ResidentSeagull]

I'd say it'd be funny if the Jorougumo thing were true and we have a DAA native to Japan, which would mean Japan has both a user of True Magic and a DAA and yet it's still considered a backwater country but Sumire's name already implies that she's native to Japan anyway soooo...

tbf maybe it could be a situation where Arach/Spidertits is from Europe/wherever, but came to Japan in the 12th century and inspired the Jorougumo. It's also possible that it's simply a neat little visual reference to ye olden myths with no story relevance.
But honestly making Arach, Spidertits AND Sumire the same character would be pretty big brain ngl

[Wishy-Washy]

The Jōren Falls of Izu is a Japanese myth about a Jorougumo who lives at the waterfalls, and ends up with a woodcutter falling in love with her and being dragged behind the waterfall by her web, well that or her spills a secret and the Jorougumo kills him because of it.

[Gabriulio]

Waterfalls, and yeah, there are. According to wikipedia, it's a common motif in the jorougumo legends.

[Asunder]

Wasn’t it mentioned in Fgo that Raikou and her team fought some really strong Jorougumo? Maybe Sumire was involved in that?

[Comun]

Raikou’s second most famous story is about killing a Tsuchigumo, and it could transform into a beautiful woman in some versions.

[Petrikow]

I'll be honest. The more I talked about this with other people, the more I'm starting to doubt that its Sumire.

Dr. Arach's main characteristics: Spider, Mad Scientist (改造魔?)

Sumire's main characteristics: Water, Drunkedness.

They don't really match at all.

As Left says, the main thing pointing towards it being involved at all is Rita's blood, or rather its replica.

But there are many ways that could have happened. If we accept that the Spidervamp is Arach, and that the silhouette holding their arms up is Rita, it may have been so simple that this is where the replica blood comes from.

At the same time, I'll throw out my own candidate for who I think it is.

Agape. To quote Wikipedia: Agape (Ancient Greek ἀγάπη, agapē) is a Greco-Christian term referring to unconditional love

So how is that related? In Noel's flashback, the one time one of the vampires speak, is when the Spider flies over the city

“愛だよ。愛だ。あれこそ愛だ”
It's love. love. That surely is love.
“ワタシは哀しい。なぜワタシの愛がワカラナイ”
I am in sorrow. Why do you not understand my love
“愛とは与えるモノ。見守るモノ。人を強くするモノ”
Love is; something you give. Something you watch over. That which makes people stronger.
“解ってほしい。ワタシはアナタたちが愛しくてたまらない！”
I want you to understand. I love you people so much I can't stand it!

Before, when Arach talks to Noel.

「来ないで……誰よ、あなた!?」
Don't come here, who are you!?
「アタシィ？　アタシは通りすがりの善人よぅ？　ノエルちゃんにちなんでスクルージとか名乗ってもいいんだ けど、アタシ、キャロルはなーんか嫌いなのだわ。
　だってあれ強者が弱者になっちゃう話じゃない？　愛が足りないんだってば、愛が」
Me~? I'm just a passing-by Good Samaritan. But to liken it with lil Noel, I could introduce myself as Scrooge, though I ki~nda hate a Christmas Carol. I mean, that's just a story of the strong turning into a weakling, right? It's lacking in love, you know, love.

This is very clearly supposed to be the philosophy of this spider, and Arach. (as if we needed any more proof they're the same)

So I toss my vote in with Agape.

[Comun]

I have to agree it’s also a very plausible candidate. As far as I read, she still haven’t gone through any scene without saying ラブい at least once.

[Leftovers]

As Left says, the main thing pointing towards it being involved at all is Rita's blood, or rather its replica.

Also consider the possibility that イデアのレプリカ may mean that the blood isn't even Rita's own, but something close enough that xd hakase can synthesise an approximation of Rita's, or rather the Rozay-en principle from it

like, for example, the blood of one of her sisters

[Misaya]

Sumire seems like a lazy person but can do whatever she wants so Arach's image of a mad scientist researching about new DA race just doesn't suit her. I mean, she already reached the apex with Marble Phantasm and overcome water drawback