A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

How would this compare to other prototypically unhealthy habits like smoking or excessive drinking? Presumably in those cases a lot of the blame also lies on predatory industries for encouraging those habits, but it doesn't seem right to say that individual intervention (i.e telling/cajoling/persuading someone to quit) is always misguided. Collective action is of course good and necessary, but by definition it's the kind of thing that can't be achieved by any one person and so can kind of instill complacency on an individual level. I feel like a lot of people thinking your way could easily end up just hoping for collective action while in practice not doing anything.

This criticism I'm totally cool with, and I do understand that change on an individual level can help. Still, banking on individual change with no effort towards or even acknowledgement of systemic change like Spinach seems to advocate for is a recipe for failure. Then again, I think it'd be much easier for people to quit gacha games if such games are banned or rendered unprofitable through collective action than it would be for people to stop drinking, smoking, or eating unhealthy food. I think very few people actually like the gacha game model and simply put up with it for various reasons.

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As for those other examples you gave, I think systemic change towards more socialist systems would do a lot to mitigate the excessive harm they do, since these would be treated and dealt with as health problems as opposed to moral failures. That, and the stresses of capitalist life do absolutely contribute to those addictions being as bad as they are, though of course, excessive drinking and smoking are bad regardless.

[Rafflesiac]

I never said there's nothing we can do. The thing to do is encourage bans of microtransactions and gambling elements in games on an international level, which will at least reduce the current problem, and it's possible in our capitalist system, even if it will likely be temporary. Besides, you ignore that I have earnestly said we need to get rid of capitalism, not in some doomer sense, but in a sense where I genuinely believe in revolution and how it can free people from the systems of capitalist exploitation, represented here as gacha. We are quite a ways a way from that necessary revolution, BUT in the meantime, relentless online and offline activism is the solution. People have gotten much worse shit done that way. Trying to preach to players to give up the gacha and belittling them and their intelligence for continuing to play is as counter-productive as can be. You may not have insulted anyone, but you have self-reported as an smug asshole doomer in that way.

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That doesn't count as trying. That's just smug doomerism.

convincing a homie to save his wallet: bad
shooting 280 character text bricks at a social media account manned by an underpaid intern: good shit

I see, I see, I get it now. Have you called the ambassador to Japan lately?

[Mooncake]

Just put down the phone. I believe in you. You can do it. The window is right there. Look outside, take in the air. The door is only a few steps away.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Fair point. Still, telling a homie they're stupid for even playing such a game and are part of the problem of the gacha is worse than saying that maybe quitting the game would save them some money.

[Crown]

shame the news thread was closed, it was the containment thread for this kind of posts

[Leftovers]

>smug, pretentious, killjoys, doomers, bad faith, victim-blaming, talking-down

If you're gonna identify with your interests to a degree that any criticism of them feels like a criticism of yourselves, at least make sure you don't internalise the inferiority which you believe other people are trying to foist on you. You're letting the terrorists win.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

That thread just showed who the crypto-fascists were, and they are why it was closed. Also, this shit's relevant to TM, like it or not.

[Mooncake]

Fair point. Still, telling a homie they're stupid for even playing such a game and are part of the problem of the gacha is worse than saying that maybe quitting the game would save them some money.

who are you

[RoydGolden]

This criticism I'm totally cool with, and I do understand that change on an individual level can help. Still, banking on individual change with no effort towards or even acknowledgement of systemic change like Spinach seems to advocate for is a recipe for failure. Then again, I think it'd be much easier for people to quit gacha games if such games are banned or rendered unprofitable through collective action than it would be for people to stop drinking, smoking, or eating unhealthy food. I think very few people actually like the gacha game model and simply put up with it for various reasons.

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As for those other examples you gave, I think systemic change towards more socialist systems would do a lot to mitigate the excessive harm they do, since these would be treated and dealt with as health problems as opposed to moral failures. That, and the stresses of capitalist life do absolutely contribute to those addictions being as bad as they are, though of course, excessive drinking and smoking are bad regardless.

True, but did Spin ever actually take a stance against collective solutions? My impression was more he was just defending individual action as important as well.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

>smug, pretentious, killjoys, doomers, bad faith, victim-blaming, talking-down

If you're gonna identify with your interests to a degree that any criticism of them feels like a criticism of yourselves, at least make sure you don't internalise the inferiority which you believe other people are trying to foist on you. You're letting the terrorists win.

Good point. That being said, I mostly feel sympathetic indignation. It's how I'd feel if someone said a community brought lead poisoning from the lead factory on themselves.

[Rafflesiac]

Fair point. Still, telling a homie they're stupid for even playing such a game and are part of the problem of the gacha is worse than saying that maybe quitting the game would save them some money.

How do you know that's not their love language?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

True, but did Spin ever actually take a stance against collective solutions? My impression was more he was just defending individual action as important as well.

He absolutely did, calling a world in which gacha games are heavily restricted and where gambling elements in games are banned as "utopian".

[Mooncake]

But

he's right

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

And that's complacency, and that makes it even more difficult to get such solutions.

[Spinach]

He absolutely did, calling a world in which gacha games are heavily restricted and where gambling elements in games are banned as "utopian".

Which means I think it's ideal. Hmmm I don't think that means I said it's wrong. Just that I don't consider it practical, so I do what's practical.

[Crown]

so yeah, just to be on topic, fgo sucks

[Mooncake]

And that's complacency, and that makes it even more difficult to get such solutions.

No? Advocating for people to stop playing those games and telling people why+how those games are predatory is activism. Activism is the opposite of complacency. I get this vague feeling from your posts that you're looking down on people who don't share your view, which is what it is, but at least take a moment to snort some common sense between those hits of pretension.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Which means I think it's ideal. Hmmm I don't think that means I said it's wrong. Just that I don't consider it practical, so I do what's practical.

If you think doing basically nothing is practical, go ahead. I personally think the necessary thing is also to engage in collective action urging legislative or regulatory action against the cogs of this predatory business model, even as we try to convince people that gacha games are a wallet trap.

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No? Advocating for people to stop playing those games and telling people why+how those games are predatory is activism. Activism is the opposite of complacency. I get this vague feeling from your posts that you're looking down on people who don't share your view, which is what it is, but at least take a moment to snort some common sense between those hits of pretension.

Yeah it is, but when it isn't accompanied by any efforts to go after those responsible for it, then it's just being incredibly preachy. It's like going after smokers without targeting the cigarette companies that relentlessly market to them.

[Mooncake]

But when you stop smokers from smoking, they... don't smoke and... save money and... live slightly better lives...

hmmmmmmmm

Why it's almost like... we're engaging in something, some form of aid, some form of, perhaps, activity...

it's on the tip of my tongue

[SeiKeo]

the real beast was capitalism all along