A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[Deathhappens]

FF14 has some of the best writing in a FF game in years as well, once shadowbringers n such, funny that some plot ideas in ShB is similar to some of nasu's more modern ideas but done... well.

And that's exactly why FFXIV forces you to interact with other players the least out of any MMO out there and essentially plays out like a massive single player JRPG where you're occasionally forced to party up with NPCs.

Heck, as of Shadowbringers you have the option of clearing all the story-neccesary dungeons with literal NPCs acting as party members (though you'll take an extra 10-20 minutes to clear on average as their damage has been intentionally set low).

[Deathhappens]

To clarify for the edification of anyone who hasn't played the game but might be interested in it, because it is a topic I enjoy talking about, and since the thread's original topic has well and truly died already: FFXIV's character progression, uniquely to any other MMO, is strictly tied to its story progression. You can't explore new areas until the main story takes you to them. You can't unlock certain classes until the story takes you to the area and level where you can unlock them. You can't use features like mounts or join guilds until you progress the story (though those are very early level unlocks, to be fair). Pretty much all progression you can make in any field is bottlenecked by the story. This story is told primarily via instanced quests, cutscenes, and occasionally dungeons and boss fights (Trials). These situations are the only time you are forced to interact with other people, and while the level of interaction depends on the party (from not exchanging a word, to simple 'I'll take the add', 'you need more cooldowns for that', or 'for Bahamut's sake stop dancing and cast a damage spell if you have nothing to heal', to full-blown in-character (E)RP), the game's narrative is still focused on the achievements of you, the player (the Warrior of Light), with your party members being treated as random adventurers you gathered to help you. This culminates in the Shadowbringers expansion, whereby the NPCs that often travel with you and usually end up mysteriously already waiting for you at the end of a dungeon actually end up joining you for the dungeon itself if you choose to use them rather than queue up for the Party Finder. That aspect really lends itself to FFXIV's epic, world-encompassing storyline, but it also has the side effect of creating a nearly solipsistic environment for those that deliberately avoid player interaction, resulting in people who treat other players like they're NPC's. (They're few, fortunately, FFXIV's community is overal very new player friendly, but there IS perhaps a higher component of divas and literal cults of personality in the game than other less 'friendly' MMOs).

[Ideofago]

Making a game farm centric and deliberately cutting off auto battling is essentially asking people to waste time.

[Byegod]

To clarify for the edification of anyone who hasn't played the game but might be interested in it, because it is a topic I enjoy talking about, and since the thread's original topic has well and truly died already: FFXIV's character progression, uniquely to any other MMO, is strictly tied to its story progression. You can't explore new areas until the main story takes you to them. You can't unlock certain classes until the story takes you to the area and level where you can unlock them. You can't use features like mounts or join guilds until you progress the story (though those are very early level unlocks, to be fair). Pretty much all progression you can make in any field is bottlenecked by the story. This story is told primarily via instanced quests, cutscenes, and occasionally dungeons and boss fights (Trials). These situations are the only time you are forced to interact with other people, and while the level of interaction depends on the party (from not exchanging a word, to simple 'I'll take the add', 'you need more cooldowns for that', or 'for Bahamut's sake stop dancing and cast a damage spell if you have nothing to heal', to full-blown in-character (E)RP), the game's narrative is still focused on the achievements of you, the player (the Warrior of Light), with your party members being treated as random adventurers you gathered to help you. This culminates in the Shadowbringers expansion, whereby the NPCs that often travel with you and usually end up mysteriously already waiting for you at the end of a dungeon actually end up joining you for the dungeon itself if you choose to use them rather than queue up for the Party Finder. That aspect really lends itself to FFXIV's epic, world-encompassing storyline, but it also has the side effect of creating a nearly solipsistic environment for those that deliberately avoid player interaction, resulting in people who treat other players like they're NPC's. (They're few, fortunately, FFXIV's community is overal very new player friendly, but there IS perhaps a higher component of divas and literal cults of personality in the game than other less 'friendly' MMOs).

I would wonder that maybe due to ff14 vs fgo in terms of comparison...

FF14 had a worse start then even FGO but it forced itself to rebuild, which may have givben perspective or humbling, while it feels like FGO never really understood there true 'bad habits'

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Making a game farm centric and deliberately cutting off auto battling is essentially asking people to waste time.

Took the words out of my mouth.

[LJ3]

I'm not sure if the self awareness makes it better. That said, since FGO is still a cross over most people will get compelled to search other material for more info and lore on characters they like. If the consider the rest better then there's straight up no downside, they're just going up from there.

- - - Updated - - -

Technically the whole shenanigans with zero shows the annoying side of a franchise "peaking" early for some people

sorry to reply late Mami, didn't check until today

yeah, honestly my comment doesn't hold much weight, beyond by own personal disagreement against the notion GO is good TM


@altima
Sure. I'm fine with that.

Actually, do we know exactly what the hell happened in Fuyuki in 2004 in the FGO timeline?

Because if we don't, it seems the story is bound to go back there at some point.

It'd be more baffling if they don't.

[Twelveseal]

Making a game farm centric and deliberately cutting off auto battling is essentially asking people to waste time.

This. With the way it's set up, I'd rather read FGO than play it. To me, it's more of a chore than a game, mostly because I would like to know what happens in it from firsthand experience but can't stand the gameplay.

[mewarmo990]

it's fair to make some distance so that you can keep liking things for the reason you got into them and not what they become as the market grew.

Also, even if I enjoy FGO I wouldn't pressure anyone to play it, just because of almost everything about what it is. Having it be a gacha game, by this developer, was a mistake that Kinoko's all but admitted by now.

Sanda's novels have been good and Tsukihime is out in a week. Melty Blood soon as well. I'll keep dreaming of Mahoyo 2.

one last thing, find community with friends who share your tastes. No need to buy into the overwhelming current of the "fandom". I think this has become more relevant since the rise of big social platforms like Reddit and Twitter.

See you around and I hope you can keep enjoying your hobbies.

[Altima of the Gates]

This. With the way it's set up, I'd rather read FGO than play it. To me, it's more of a chore than a game, mostly because I would like to know what happens in it from firsthand experience but can't stand the gameplay.

Honestly, unless its during certain events, I am not grinding too much. The story feels all over the place I think partly because of the writer ensemble and partly because there is a lot of things to tell about this universe.
Though let's be frank, before FGO the continuity of some aspects of the universe and what goes where has been kind of a puzzle piece we get by ingesting every bit of content over the years when it comes to the factions/politics of the world, its cosmology, the different apocalyptic ends it can reach, etc.

We would be like baby birds stretching out for the next drop of content or material book.

[Ubergeneral]

it's a phone game. It's going to be a grind.

The main story of FGO can be done without much grinding. Just use a strong support and level up the right servants. With good team comp you can beat the whole game.

[Ideofago]

The pattern of the genre being there does not mean it is advisable, moral, ethical, good, likeable, or a good choice in the slightest.
Just cause it's a phone game, doesn't mean it's off the hook for being a chore.
And when you have to look away from core flaws to enjoy the rest of the thing, that's when you're consuming something shit.
As a comparison: this chicken tastes great if you avoid the rotten hole in the middle; This piece looks amazing if you ignore the massive cumstain at the focus point; This statue looks amazing if you ignore the massive turd on top of its head;
Do you get my point now?

[Nanaya]

Mandatory interaction with other players is the worst idea you can introduce to a videogame.

Kind of dependent on the game and genre. I know the MMO crowd by large feels the single-player nature of a lot of modern MMO's is part of why the genre is stagnant and yearn for things that require more cooperation.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I don't think too many of us are MMO fans, and I do admit, those guys probably have a very different mentality towards gaming as compared to someone like me. Personally, I think my own preference for single player these days has been shaped by being a lonely only child who didn't really have other people to play games with in the past, and eventually I got used to doing things at strictly my own pace. Party games are party games, but those aren't exactly the games I play on the regular.

[Malgos]

A bit late, but to be on topic while I don't think I interacted with you, I'd still like to say goodbye and maybe the Tsukihime remake will rekindle your passion. Along with Nasu's interest in his other works.

The thing is fate has changed for the better. One of the neatest things about fate are servants and the idea that so many people from history and mythology could become one. Old type moon didn't do much to make new characters very often, FGO made it so that they had to for gatcha money.

I disagree a bit with this more having Servants is indeed somewhat nice, but runs into the pitfall of having so many Servants is in my opinion that most of them can't be that fleshed out as the original ones were from Fate/Stay Night or Extra. As ironic as this may seem as someone that likes Arturia, but these gender changes to female are pretty annoying to me. The reasoning in the story given for Arturia was decent and believable enough for me, but nowadays it just feels like they need to pad it out to sell more female Servants to people. It's been teased in Grand Order for a while now, but I'm still somewhat disappointed that Proto Arthur's universe also has different genders and not the "original" ones, like for example his version of Merlin.

Don't lie, DDD3 is never happening.

Would be cool if it did, though. Man I forgot a lot about the plot for those maybe I should re-read them but then I'd get disappointed by the likely never-ending wait. And Mahoyo would be neat as well, I kinda forgot to check in recent years how the translation is doing for that, but I'm still interested in the premise despite not knowing much else about it.

Anyways I do hope Tsukihime sells well, please get an official translation, to see more of it and other works. Afterall this time I'm still holding out hope to see Tsukihime 2 realized one day.

You know what, this is in some way part of the problem to me. Not precisely what you said, but rather, that when the whole thing started out, it all had a rather serious tone to it. The comedy routines were mostly kept to slice of life content in the works, used to lighten the mood of otherwise rather serious stories. However, as the years have gone on, TM products in general feel like they've slipped from that. The serious plotlines are there, sure, but it all seems even more absurd and ridiculous, to the point that even though there's plenty of drama to be had in them, the whole thing now feels kind of like a massive joke. As if the demarcation between what should have been comedy and what was supposed to be dramatic has faded.

I've got a similar feeling when I watched the translated version of the first Grand Carnival, or whatever it was called, episode. I feel that especially in Grand Order the characters are more often than not already in comedy mode as serious story chapters get released very slowly. Anyways as I was watching that I barely found it funny, maybe it was the episode, maybe the translation but I thought it's probably cause Grand Order feels more clowny than Stay Night or Tsukihime. Although I don't think I understood the Back Alley Alliance skits there as I can't remember finding many if any funny. Or maybe that was the point of them... Not sure.

In other words, that shit company DelightWorks lucked out massively when TypeMoon decided they should be the ones to make a Fate mobile game.

Ain't that the truth. If not for the Fate IP this thing probably would've been D.O.A. Delight Works seems to really love to pat themselves on the shoulder for a job well done with FGO as well. They're just so complacent and barely improve anything while seemingly celebrating themselves with the anniversary stream. In my opinion it's the IP and writers that are carrying this, while they just got lucky.

[R.Lock]

I don't think too many of us are MMO fans, and I do admit, those guys probably have a very different mentality towards gaming as compared to someone like me. Personally, I think my own preference for single player these days has been shaped by being a lonely only child who didn't really have other people to play games with in the past, and eventually I got used to doing things at strictly my own pace. Party games are party games, but those aren't exactly the games I play on the regular.

I don't quite understand this. There are plenty of MMORPG players who ain't no social butterflies or party animals. Quite a sizable chunk of players play strictly according to their schedule and pace rather than matching someone else's. MMORPG are quite an amazing social vehicle where even the most introverted people can find enjoyment, really.

[eddyak]

I don't quite understand this. There are plenty of MMORPG players who ain't no social butterflies or party animals. Quite a sizable chunk of players play strictly according to their schedule and pace rather than matching someone else's. MMORPG are quite an amazing social vehicle where even the most introverted people can find enjoyment, really.

That's, uh...

I don't know if it qualifies as an oxymoron, but it definitely qualifies as something. It's like when people try and get you to play something by saying "man, this game is fun if you play with your friends!" Of course it's fun if you're playing with your friends, they're your friends, you have fun by default.

Playing an MMO solo is literally the opposite of what an MMO is. You're avoiding engaging with the point of the entire genre.

[Twelveseal]

XD. I usually play them solo. WoW, FF14, Tera, and Warframe. The number of times I've partied with anyone since starting MMO's back in mid 00's can be counted on one hand between all of them.

Edit: Forgot a couple; Guild Wars and Phantasy Star Online, and I guess you could count Monster Hunter?

[Kamera]

what would a timeline where Fate/Apo MMO is the TM cashcow and FGO never exists look like I wonder

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Probably worse, ngl.

[Rafflesiac]

what would a timeline where Fate/Apo MMO is the TM cashcow and FGO never exists look like I wonder

K-Pop Astolfo, Jeanne, and Semi skins.