A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[mami-kouga]

I think I'll appreciate FGO much more when it's over. As a non-player, all I'm getting from it is the feeling of missing out, and some out-of-context morsels.

On the whole debate about the morality of slot machines - sure, they're terrible for the addicts that blow their rent money on them. But if a mentally healthy adult wants to spend disposable income on them, so be it. I'm definitely in favor of them being regulated as gambling, age-restricted and heavily taxed/monitored.

As far as I know, FGO is perfectly playable as F2P unless you really want to collect the rare servants. Is this right?

Can confirm that yes, it's incredibly doable. Probably harder for waifufans than for me because they've been releasing less and less male servants by the year but I've yet to spend so much as a single kobo in all the years I've been playing the NA release (technically since the London second banner but I also missed a year due to school). I'm also a super casual player even in games with more competitive features like granblue and A3 so while all my incidental spooks and summons leading to a good and powerful challenge quests clearers and farming teams is a nice feeling, I also spent these almost 3 years not caring because I roll servants for the satisfaction of keeping them in my chaldea.

That being said, the gacha is horrible and my not spending any money is less because I have some remarkable form of self control and more than Google play store literally does not accept my naira MasterCard so I can't use it to buy anything, and heaven knows I'm not interested in learning. The fact that after years and years these selfish pricks still won't add in an actual pity system and are satisfied milking as much money as they can when they realised this is the only franchise where fans good will is enough to turn them into masochists and keep the thing thriving just makes me hate everyone still in charge

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As for arguments on the Fate/TypeMoon/FGO/whatever. I've been involved with all of this for barely 5 years. I just consume everything new and old if it vaguely interests me, even stuff that I have a low opinion on like requiem is still something I want to see through till the end, I'm much to "young" to have any meaningful takes on what and doesn't work when the only form of comparisons I have for a before and after is the Naruto Vs Boruto Vs maybe Samurai 8 which I handled by ignoring the second since the first was already filled with flaws and dropping the third in chapter one

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

At least other gacha have pity systems, or in the case of FEH, sparking on some banners. This fucking sucks.

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I think I'll appreciate FGO much more when it's over. As a non-player, all I'm getting from it is the feeling of missing out, and some out-of-context morsels.

On the whole debate about the morality of slot machines - sure, they're terrible for the addicts that blow their rent money on them. But if a mentally healthy adult wants to spend disposable income on them, so be it. I'm definitely in favor of them being regulated as gambling, age-restricted and heavily taxed/monitored.

As far as I know, FGO is perfectly playable as F2P unless you really want to collect the rare servants. Is this right?

For now, I absolutely agree with your solution, and I myself do like gambling to some extent, but I still don't like how slots, lotteries, and their ilk pray on people's warped pleasure and reward centers and ruins their lives, especially if the perpetrators are huge multinational corporations.

[mami-kouga]

Also also, between old TypeMoon Vs current TypeMoon fans, fate/zero Vs the rest of fate fans, and even inside FGO itself with all the shit flinging between people who have way too much of an opinion (positive or otherwise) on the self insert protag; I'm left with the feeling that all corners of this fandom hate each other

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Look, I don't hate FGO's content, at least from the outside looking in. It's fairly interesting, and I think the whole deal with Chaldea, the FATE system, and the various conflicts are neat. Still, it's held back by its medium and the relentless drive towards profit.

Also, I think gatekeeping by some of the old TM fans actually does a disservice to the fandom by intimidating or turning fans off from exploring the older material. Besides, if we accept normies more readily, we might get a bunch of new perspectives and opinions that could enrich the fandom as a whole, even if it's hard at first.

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That being said, more non-FGO content that's marketed as heavily as FGO would be nice. I think Tsuki:Re is the beginning of a positive trend, and it brings me hope that FGO will actually end with a new revenue stream open.

[R.Lock]

F/Z wave brought along people who were arrogant enough to judge the entire TM by contrasting a half-baked anime adaptation and a rushed, crappy movie against Ufo's rendition of F/Z. No effort was made to read F/SN, and, to add to that, a lot of Western media were happy to badmouth Nasu while singing praise to Urobuchi which...didn't help the new audience to peacefully merge with the old fanbase.

[TomPen94]

Also also, between old TypeMoon Vs current TypeMoon fans, fate/zero Vs the rest of fate fans, and even inside FGO itself with all the shit flinging between people who have way too much of an opinion (positive or otherwise) on the self insert protag; I'm left with the feeling that all corners of this fandom hate each other

Isn't that the case with any fandom that gets big enough?
TM just has the extra spice of the morality of gacha and the long waits between non-FGO products.

F/Z wave brought along people who were arrogant enough to judge the entire TM by contrasting a half-baked anime adaptation and a rushed, crappy movie against Ufo's rendition of F/Z. No effort was made to read F/SN, and, to add to that, a lot of Western media were happy to badmouth Nasu while singing praise to Urobuchi which...didn't help the new audience to peacefully merge with the old fanbase.

Well I am glad to have been hit with the Read-the-VN hammer right in the head and abiding to it, cuz that's when I came into the fandom.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

F/Z wave brought along people who were arrogant enough to judge the entire TM by contrasting a half-baked anime adaptation and a rushed, crappy movie against Ufo's rendition of F/Z. No effort was made to read F/SN, and, to add to that, a lot of Western media were happy to badmouth Nasu while singing praise to Urobuchi which...didn't help the new audience to peacefully merge with the old fanbase.

Fair, but was the existing fandom particularly welcoming to even receptive fans? Knowing what happens here, I'm not sure. Besides, most of those fans you mentioned don't make their way here and stick to Reddit or YouTube.

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Isn't that the case with any fandom that gets big enough?
TM just has the extra spice of the morality of gacha and the long waits between non-FGO products.

The gatekeeping is also on another level due to so much being locked behind moonrunes, this requiring elite moonrunner fans to disseminate accurate info to the rest of us.

[mami-kouga]

Isn't that the case with any fandom that gets big enough?
TM just has the extra spice of the morality of gacha and the long waits between non-FGO products.



Well I am glad to have been hit with the Read-the-VN hammer right in the head and abiding to it, cuz that's when I came into the fandom.

Perhaps. I myself missed the more quiet days of the Kimetsu fandom but I also have a mostly superficial engagement with it for my mental health so this one being one of the biggest franchises I'm still kind of active in makes the whole thing stand out more

[mAc Chaos]

Thinking of the future, I look at Star Wars. It's been going strong for 40 years and churning out content nonstop... there's defined eras, with fans ushered in for each, and enough content for every fan to get lost in their own little corner and enjoy the parts they want without worrying about the parts they don't. I never liked the Disney Star Wars movies, but it hasn't made me enjoy the prequels or originals any less, nor find a lack of people to discuss them with.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

And there's just as much vitriol between different sets of fans and between fans and Lucasfilm and Disney due to the latter two attempting to define canon. I'm thankful TM isn't doing that.

[mami-kouga]

And there's just as much vitriol between different sets of fans and between fans and Lucasfilm and Disney due to the latter two attempting to define canon. I'm thankful TM isn't doing that.

You say that as if that's still not stopped the fandom from arguing with each other about what does and doesn't count as canon. We still have "X is the TRUE ending to FSN", though it's thankfully less prevalent

[R.Lock]

I believe part of it was fueled by Nasu hinting at Waver and Rin dismantling Grail after the Fifth War.

[aldeayeah]

Fair, but was the existing fandom particularly welcoming to even receptive fans? Knowing what happens here, I'm not sure. Besides, most of those fans you mentioned don't make their way here and stick to Reddit or YouTube.

Some of the main influencers (such as Baiken, food, etc) had little patience for anyone who claimed to understand the setting, but hadn't played the original games.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Ah. That makes sense, and even though their frustration is understandable, it probably didn't help matters.

[Ratman]

Thinking of the future, I look at Star Wars. It's been going strong for 40 years and churning out content nonstop... there's defined eras, with fans ushered in for each, and enough content for every fan to get lost in their own little corner and enjoy the parts they want without worrying about the parts they don't. I never liked the Disney Star Wars movies, but it hasn't made me enjoy the prequels or originals any less, nor find a lack of people to discuss them with.

TM has made George Lucas jokes in melty and Saber Wars for a reason. I like to imagine TM works have far less corporate meddling, though.

FGO is kind of like if E7-9 of Star Wars was actually 30 movies entirely about the history of the Mandalorians. Like sure, it's setting content and I shouldn't be mad about it, but it feels like some kind of an elaborate joke that they would focus this much on what was utter window dressing in the original. Nobody expected them to just 1:1 Heir to the Empire, either, and nobody wanted the to continue the original story, either. Just write something new.

Star Wars E7-9 is much worse than FGO. The sequels are kind of like if TM released Fate/Stay Night II starring a magus named Saber who may or may not be Shirou's daughter and who uses Excalibur magecraft and has to participate in a Holy Grail War to defeat the ghost of Zouken who has taken over Avenger in the grail, and whom nobody can stop because after HGW5 the mage society has collectively decided to drop magecraft because it was clearly a bad idea. Zouken has flooded Fuyuki with Dragon Tooth Soldiers and most of the story is Saber fighting those (she doesn't need a servant).
Saber also has sexual tensions with a rival named Bin who's Rin's son and uses Matou curse magecraft and kills Rin in the process of the story to curse himself harder. Despite Bin using Matou magecraft, there is no indication of Sakura ever having existed, and he doesn't really play up his relation to Zouken at all, instead he's obsessed with being more like Shinji.
Also throughout the entire story the track team trio's daughters follow Saber around and keep getting saved by her, even though they really don't impact the holy grail war in any way.

[Deathhappens]

I'd like to chime in here. I always had sensed that Beast's Lair is just bitter about FGO. You seem like a bunch of jaded fans that didn't want anything to change but enjoy the depths of the lore to the extent that its detrimental to the fandom.

Let me explain. Most threads here on BL are very long. So much so that it's impossible to shift though for info. Lore discussion goes deep, something I love about the nasuverse, but sometimes it gets crazy with people citing something that wasn't in any of the main works as cannon, like Nasu's blog. This makes lore confusing and it gives a sense of power to the elitist posters on Beast's Lair.

The length of the Beast Lair threads makes it impossible to find discussion on a specific subject. Want to find what people were saying about a certain event? All you have to do is sift though a thread that has 250,000 posts. I see this as a failure of Beast's lair to take FGO seriously. It took almost 5 years for a separate borad to be made and the fans just want to treat the fourms as a discord server. I feel this problem is unique to BL, the reddit is happy posting memes and making a new post for each new topic, BL is cliquey and its just a circle of the same 20 or so posters in a thread, with no one at any point saying that having all FGO discussion in one threat is a bit silly.

FGO comes along and brings in a lot of casual players to the fandom. I think this is where the saltiness comes in. Old veterans don't want a bunch of secondaries entering the fandom and don't like that type moon is permanently changed by FGO. The thing is fate has changed for the better. One of the neatest things about fate are servants and the idea that so many people from history and mythology could become one. Old type moon didn't do much to make new characters very often, FGO made it so that they had to for gatcha money.

Weather it was a main story or a silly event since FGO came about there has been a major influx of new content. You claim that FGO has somehow killed or delayed whatever you think type moon would have made but I think of what we wouldn't have if FGO didn't happen. Many servants like Mushasi, Raikou, Anatasia, Ishtar and Queen Meab were made for the game.

Instead of complaining about FGO, don't play it if you don't like it. The gatcha money is making the Tsukimhime remake better anyways, and all the stuff they didn't make because of FGO is happening now. As a fan that loved type moon before FGO I can say the change is good, and for me FGO was the best thing to happen. I like the game, it's gameplay and what it added to the universe.

To each his own, right?

"lmao git gud"

-updooted-

know what, I ain't no coward, lmao git gud son

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This obsession with Servants is what caused most of this mess in the first place.

[Leftovers]

I'd like to chime in here. I always had sensed that Beast's Lair is just bitter about FGO. You seem like a bunch of jaded fans that didn't want anything to change but enjoy the depths of the lore to the extent that its detrimental to the fandom.

Let me explain. Most threads here on BL are very long. So much so that it's impossible to shift though for info. Lore discussion goes deep, something I love about the nasuverse, but sometimes it gets crazy with people citing something that wasn't in any of the main works as cannon, like Nasu's blog. This makes lore confusing and it gives a sense of power to the elitist posters on Beast's Lair.

The length of the Beast Lair threads makes it impossible to find discussion on a specific subject. Want to find what people were saying about a certain event? All you have to do is sift though a thread that has 250,000 posts. I see this as a failure of Beast's lair to take FGO seriously. It took almost 5 years for a separate borad to be made and the fans just want to treat the fourms as a discord server. I feel this problem is unique to BL, the reddit is happy posting memes and making a new post for each new topic, BL is cliquey and its just a circle of the same 20 or so posters in a thread, with no one at any point saying that having all FGO discussion in one threat is a bit silly.

FGO comes along and brings in a lot of casual players to the fandom. I think this is where the saltiness comes in. Old veterans don't want a bunch of secondaries entering the fandom and don't like that type moon is permanently changed by FGO.

It's a real eye-opener how many people simply have no notion of what a community is, let alone why someone could stick around even after being alienated from their own interests. Why indeed would someone be bitter that the things they like were reduced to one massive thing that they don't like, taking over the focus of the community they were a part of for years on end? Why not just stop caring about TM and leave? It is a mystery.

Re: elitism and, page refresh, gatekeeping, you are - and this has always been the case - as much of an oppressed secondary as you believe yourself to be. The post-FGO demographic shift brought in a slew of users both invested in the Fate brand and contributing with discussions and translations of it, and the most popular thread on the forum for a long time was the one where people asked questions about TM and invariably had them answered. Imagining a ruling class of elitists hoarding their knowledge and shunning everything new is just rehashing the accusation of an exclusionist club of rabid weebs that always came BL's way without adapting it to how BL is now. I kinda like that the label has stuck but I'm afraid the forum is hardly worthy of it anymore.

[Rafflesiac]

but sometimes it gets crazy with people citing something that wasn't in any of the main works as cannon, like Nasu's blog. This makes lore confusing and it gives a sense of power to the elitist posters on Beast's Lair.

If you want to join in on conversations then read what the conversation's about.

The thing is fate has changed for the better. One of the neatest things about fate are servants and the idea that so many people from history and mythology could become one. Old type moon didn't do much to make new characters very often, FGO made it so that they had to for gatcha money.

TM went from a franchise I'd join a forum for to just another set of works where I already happen to be here. The dilution of Servants and the setting is why.

Weather it was a main story or a silly event since FGO came about there has been a major influx of new content. You claim that FGO has somehow killed or delayed whatever you think type moon would have made but I think of what we wouldn't have if FGO didn't happen. Many servants like Mushasi, Raikou, Anatasia, Ishtar and Queen Meab were made for the game.

I can live without doujinbait and so can you.

The gatcha money is making the Tsukimhime remake better anyways, and all the stuff they didn't make because of FGO is happening now. As a fan that loved type moon before FGO I can say the change is good, and for me FGO was the best thing to happen.

Tsuki 2, Mahoyo 2

Also also, between old TypeMoon Vs current TypeMoon fans, fate/zero Vs the rest of fate fans, and even inside FGO itself with all the shit flinging between people who have way too much of an opinion (positive or otherwise) on the self insert protag; I'm left with the feeling that all corners of this fandom hate each other

It's not a real TM community if it doesn't hate all of the other ones with a burning passion!

[Herod]

Tsuki 2, Mahoyo 2

Tsuki2 will never happen. Never. You will see at least Mahoyo 2, Mahoto 3 and DDD volume 3 before a Tsuki 2.

[R.Lock]

Don't lie, DDD3 is never happening.