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Thread: [SUMMARY & TRANSLATIONS] Tsukihime -A piece of blue glass moon- (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #281
    河童 Gabriulio's Avatar
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    The wording of "non-human primates" is incredibly funny to me (in a kind of morbid way) because it implies the members of the Burial Agency will also kill monkeys on sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by celsius View Post
    If Saber and Shirou got married... Would that make Shirou the Queen of Britain?

  2. #282
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One R.Lock's Avatar
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    If monkeys try to become the leading species, then yeah, Burial Agency will wipe them out. /shrug


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    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldeayeah View Post
    Forget those, it seems the average VI eats her alive.

    Her assignment to Burial Agency assistant duty seems like a delayed death sentence.
    Again, what did she do to even go there to escape punishment? I must assume it involves taking a younger lover, but who's to say for sure?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  4. #284
    河童 Gabriulio's Avatar
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    "For the Burial Agency, being a non-human primate is on its own 'evil'." kinda implies that they don't care whether the monkeys try to become the leading species or not. I'm sure that's not what Nasu intended when he wrote that, but it's still funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by celsius View Post
    If Saber and Shirou got married... Would that make Shirou the Queen of Britain?

  5. #285
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriulio View Post
    "For the Burial Agency, being a non-human primate is on its own 'evil'." kinda implies that they don't care whether the monkeys try to become the leading species or not. I'm sure that's not what Nasu intended when he wrote that, but it's still funny.
    霊長 is a term established as early as the old Tsukihime meaning the sapient species defining what the world is about. Who is in the seat of primacy, as it's often worded. The common translation for that is "prime species" or "prime ones", but people very often mistranslate as "primate" because 霊長類 means primate, and because Nasu made the exact same mistake when naming Primate Murder.

    It's the faeries in LB6, the Yaga in LB1, a competition between the humans and the giants in LB2, and the humans everywhere else.

    Have this dictionary entry to make Nasu's word choice feel less arbitrary and full of shit, tho.

  6. #286
    河童 Gabriulio's Avatar
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    I knew about 霊長/霊長類/霊長目, I just assumed the terms were interchangable due to my limited knowledge of Japanese.

    Quote Originally Posted by celsius View Post
    If Saber and Shirou got married... Would that make Shirou the Queen of Britain?

  7. #287
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    霊長 is a term established as early as the old Tsukihime meaning the sapient species defining what the world is about. Who is in the seat of primacy, as it's often worded. The common translation for that is "prime species" or "prime ones", but people very often mistranslate as "primate" because 霊長類 means primate, and because Nasu made the exact same mistake when naming Primate Murder.

    It's the faeries in LB6, the Yaga in LB1, a competition between the humans and the giants in LB2, and the humans everywhere else.

    Have this dictionary entry to make Nasu's word choice feel less arbitrary and full of shit, tho.
    I guess I'll switch over to that. I actually considered using 'humanoid' but that wouldn't ring so well with non-human in front.

    As you say, his usage of this word is consistently annoying.
    Last edited by Petrikow; September 9th, 2021 at 01:27 PM.

  8. #288
    祖 Ancestor TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    Petri, since nobody commented on this in the big thread and you did the summaries...
    I already see some Ciel and Noel pics on twitter, not exactly shipping, more like wholesome stuff , and for japànese people, not just unspoiled western people , its nice to see it, but does it have a basis? In yor summary , my impression was that, she was not exactly happy about finishing her, but ultimately it has to be done , or is more emotional playing it? A japanese person said the cried there



  9. #289
    People draw what they want to see, not necessarily what is there. There's already fresh yuri art with Arc and Ciel and we're not even into MB yet!
    Last edited by Lake; September 9th, 2021 at 07:46 AM.

  10. #290
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon View Post
    Petri, since nobody commented on this in the big thread and you did the summaries...
    I already see some Ciel and Noel pics on twitter, not exactly shipping, more like wholesome stuff , and for japànese people, not just unspoiled western people , its nice to see it, but does it have a basis? In yor summary , my impression was that, she was not exactly happy about finishing her, but ultimately it has to be done , or is more emotional playing it? A japanese person said the cried there


    Ciel says that despite everything between them, they stayed together for 5 years. Normally Executioner cells only last 1 year, until one of them turns into a vampire, or dies in combat. So in a sense they were a pretty special duo, and not just because Ciel was strong. Earlier on, when you ask Ciel about her relationship with Noel, she seems surprised that Noel would have had good words to say about her in front of Shiki, but denies that they are particularly close. They don't have any relations outside of work. They probably both keep away from another in order to minimize friction over their shared past.

    Despite what ultimately happens in Ciel route, Noel was not exactly planning on exacting her revenge on Ciel, that was more of something that happened to spring into her mind once she became strong enough to carry it out (though ultimately, she wasn't actually strong enough).

  11. #291
    祖 Ancestor TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    Thanks. Guess thats enought for soe people to wish things went better. I assume they will keep work together post arc rute?

  12. #292
    The 8th member of the BA sounds like an opportunity to finally have a cool badass priest MC should they go that route

  13. #293
    U-Olga Marie voter TomPen94's Avatar
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    Okay so I got Ciel's Normal End, which I was expecting. Didn't expect that stab in the gut, though. My stomach turned upside down.

    However, despite following Neco-Arc's advice and choosing the Arcueid-friendly choices on Day 8 and Day 9, I still can't change my choice on Day 14.
    Are there any other choices I need to change before this?
    burn your dread you coward

  14. #294
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    You did not max Arcueid's affection elsewhere. Go back to day 4 and be nicer to her.

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    U-Olga Marie voter TomPen94's Avatar
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    So now instead of Ciel's route being too similar to Arc's, you need to fawn over Arc in Ciel's route to get the True Ciel ending.

    Madlad Nasu does it once again.

    Well thanks anyway.
    burn your dread you coward

  16. #296
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomPen94 View Post
    So now instead of Ciel's route being too similar to Arc's, you need to fawn over Arc in Ciel's route to get the True Ciel ending.

    Madlad Nasu does it once again.

    Well thanks anyway.
    In that sense not much has changed.

  17. #297
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Black Keys

    English Translation Japanese Original
    Shiki: "This next question is just because I'm curious...
    Those weapons that you toss out all the time...
    What are they exactly?"
    「次の好奇心なんですけど。
     シエル先輩がぽいぽい投げているあの武器は、どんなものなんでしょう?」
    Ciel: "Quite interesting you'd notice, perhaps I should have expected as much.
    Flashy finishers are good to have, sure, but in actual combat the most important factor is still fundamentals.
    Very well, I'm known as an expert when it comes to Black Keys; I'll teach you all about them."
    「そこに目を付けるとは、さすが遠野くん。
     必殺技もいいものですが、戦闘においてもっとも重要なのは基本技ですからね……。
     いいでしょう。黒鍵について、エキスパートと言われた私がお教えします」
    Her face has gone so far past being smug it's turned right back to being serious. ドヤ顔を通りこしてガチ顔になってしまった。
    Ciel: "The year was around 300 AD.
    This was the era when it's said that Dead Apostles were the most rampant in Europe.
    Heretics bearing the curse of immortality: Dead Apostles.
    The Church's mission was to turn their bodies back to human, or more accurately, to reduce them to dust by reverting them into corpses.
    By reading the words of our Lord's great promulgations to them, sinners feel His love and depart from the earth."
    「事の起こりは西暦300年頃。
     欧州にもっとも死徒が蔓延ったとされる時代。
     不老不死の呪いを持つ異端者、死徒。
     その肉体を人間に戻す―――正しく死体に戻し、塵に返す事が教会の使命でした。
     偉大なる主の『大規定』……その文言を読み上げ、聞かせる事で亡者は主の愛を知り、この地上から消え去り ます」
    Ciel: "They may look like blades, but they're actually prayers.
    Sacraments of the Church, created with the lament for the dead; litanies, as their base.
    Thinking about it from a Japanese perspective it's something like, let’s see... a sutra, I guess?"
    「あれは刃のように見えますが、実際は『聖言』なんです。
     死者を悼み、<葬|おく>る<規定|ことば>を基にして作られた、
     教会の秘蹟。
     日本風に言うと、そうですね……ありがたいお経と思ってください」
    Ciel: "But then, why do these 'prayers' take the form of blades?
    And why are they called 'keys'?
    For that, we need to talk about the long storied struggle between Executors and Dead Apostles."
    「では、なぜその『言葉』が刃の形になっているのか?
     鍵と名付けられているのか?
     それには代行者と死徒の、長い闘争の歴史を語らねばなりません」
    Ciel: "Against Dead Apostles, you cannot expect ordinary weapons to have lethal effect.
    A wound is something a Dead Apostle can restore through blood;
    You cannot kill them by just trying to hack away and tear them apart.
    In contrast, Executors are human, even if they can take some amount of punishment. As a result, they are overwhelmed in combat situations by this large difference in survival ability."
    「死徒に対して通常の武器では殺傷効果は望めません。
     死徒にとって『傷』は血で復元するもの。
     ただ斬ったりもいだりしただけでは死徒は死なないのです。
     一方、代行者は多少無茶が利くといっても人間ですから、戦闘になれば生存力の差で押し切られてしまいまし た」
    Ciel: "Indeed. The only effective strategy against Dead Apostles aren't attacks at a 'single point', but rather attacks at the 'whole surface'; to destroy them with overwhelming destructive force.
    But back in that era, there weren't any armaments high-powered enough that they'd be capable of eradicating a Dead Apostle's body in a single strike.
    The most effective measure was shutting them into a building or forest, setting it aflame together with everything around it, and then immolating them until their blood had all been used up.
    However, if the Church was to do this each and every time, they'd ruin themselves."
    「そう。死徒には『点』の攻撃ではなく『面』……圧倒的な破壊力でぶっ潰す戦法だけが有効だっ たのです。
     ですがあの時代、一撃で死徒の肉体を消し去る高火力の武装はありませんでした。
     もっとも効果的な手段は、建物や森に閉じ込め、その場所ごと焼いて、血を使い切るまで燃やす、というもの でした。しかし、こんな事をいちいちやっていたら教会が破産してしまいます」
    Ciel: "So at the time, there was an individual hailed as the pinnacle of both swordsmen and presbyters, who proposed a weapon that was mass-producible, easy to transport, with immediate effectivity while keeping collateral to a minimum.
    These were the Scriptural Weapons, of which Black Keys were the first...
    Instead of trying to enchant things with anti-heresy properties by inscribing prayers onto them, they had the groundbreaking idea of instead turning the prayer itself into a weapon, and so render it a potent anti-heresy implement."
    「そこで当時、最高峰の剣士にして司祭と謳われた方が、『量産が利き、携帯が容易く、即効性があり、被害を 最小限に抑える』武器を考案したのです。
     それが黒鍵を始めとする聖典武装……
     武器に聖言を刻んで対異端用の効果を付加するのではなく、
     聖典そのものを武器にして対異端の猛毒にする、という画期的なアイディアでした」
    Ciel: "For those that have completely abandoned their humanity, of which Dead Apostles are most representative, being exterminated through words isn't possible.
    This is because their souls are no longer capable of understanding the meaning of those words.
    The ways of man are only applicable to man.
    The words of the Lord won’t reach those that have become Dead Apostles."
    「死徒をはじめとする『完全に人間ではなくなった』モノたちには、言葉による退去は敵いません 。
     彼らの魂は『その意味がもう理解できない』からです。
     人の理は人にのみ通じるもの。
     死徒となったモノに、主の言葉は届かない」
    Ciel: "Accordingly, what we do is not inscribe the prayers onto the soul, but onto the body, thus rewriting its rules into proper ones.
    Though the polluted soul cannot be saved, at least the physical body can be turned back to human by these prayers...
    Almost as if inserting a key into the empty door of undeath; opening it.
    Dead Apostles that are struck by a Scriptural Weapon are compelled to 'remember' their body, even if only that part of them, and then terminate."
    「ですので―――私たちは魂ではなく肉体そのものに聖言を刻みつけ、正しいルールに書き換える 。
     汚染された魂は救えませんが、肉体だけは聖言によって人に戻る。
     『不死』という虚無の<孔|ドア>に鍵をさして、回すように。
     聖典武装を受けた死徒は、その部分だけでもかつての肉体を『思い出し』、消滅します」
    Ciel: "And that's the fundamental mechanism of Scriptural Weapons.
    Black Keys were created back then, and were the first armament of their kind.
    The part that looks like a handle is actually the cut-out page of a manuscript.
    Executors use their own magical ene-- excuse me, prayer power, to harden it into the shape of a handle so they can carry it around with them.
    During combat, they pour their magica-- excuse me, prayers into it, switching it over into Automatic Baptismal Mode. This 'baptism' piece just coincidentally happens to look like a blade, is all."
    「以上が聖典武装の根本的な仕組みです。
     黒鍵はその時に作られた、最初期の武装でした。
     柄に見えるものは聖典の写本から切り抜いた頁です。
     代行者はこれを自らの魔力……失礼、祈りの力で柄の形に固めて持ち歩きます。
     戦闘時はこの柄に魔、失礼、祈りをこめると自動洗礼状態に移行します。この『洗礼』の部分が、たまたま刃 に似ているだけなんです」
    Ciel: "During the 9th century, Black Keys settled into the form of today, and were widely used, beloved as the greatest Scriptural Weapon of all.
    Many throwing techniques were also developed:
    Shadow Pinning, Time Skipping, the Plating Effect, the Cremation Rite, the Internment Rite, Conclave...
    However... as far as weapon go, Black Keys are also unreliable, much like the bow and arrow; their effectiveness differs depending on the user's skill and magical energy levels."
    「九世紀頃、黒鍵は今のカタチに落ち着き、もっとも優れた聖典武装として広く愛用されました。
     投擲の技法も多く、影縫い、時飛び、鉄甲作用、火葬式典、土葬式典、コンクラーベ、と多くのバリエーショ ンが生まれたのです。
     ですが……黒鍵は弓矢のようなもので、使い手のスキル、魔力の量によって威力が変わる、安定性のない武器 でもあった」
    Shiki: "Excuse me, is just 'magical energy' fine now...?" 「すみません、魔力でいいんですか?」
    Ciel: It's annoying so I dropped it.
    The Holy Church stands in opposition to the Mages Association and so they are quite persistent about terminology...
    But really, it's a trivial problem.
    「面倒なのでもういいです。
     聖堂教会は魔術協会と反目しているので呼称にはとてもうるさいのですが、どうでもいい問題な ので」
    Ciel: Though Black Keys were an easy-to-obtain weapon, they were also quite difficult to use.
    Not only were 10 years of training needed to become proficient at them, but their construction was so simple that that no further performance improvements could be expected from them.
    So as the years went by, they alone became inadequate in facing the ever burgeoning Dead Apostles.
    As civilization developed and firearms could be produced, the number of Black Key users started decreasing.
    「黒鍵は入手しやすい武器でもありましたが、使いにくい武器でもあったのです。
     一人前の射手になるには10年の修業が必要なだけでなく、そもそもの構造がシンプルすぎてこれ以上の威力 向上は望めなかった。
     年月を増すごとに強力になっていく死徒を相手にするには力不足だったのですね。
     文明が発達し、銃器が量産できるようになって、黒鍵使いは数を減らしていきます」
    Ciel: In 1450 AD, with the advent of the printing-machine as invented by Gutenberg, Black Keys had a slight recovery in their popularity, but were still unable to compete with the simplicity of guns; finally demoted from a main-weapon to a sub-weapon that you could pass off as having in place of an amulet or something.
    Since then, Black Keys have become an enthusiast's weapon in the Church; something only pious believers would willingly employ.
    However...!
    「1450年、グーテンベルク氏による印刷機の台頭で黒鍵の流行はちょっと持ち直しますが、やはり銃器のお 手軽さには勝てず、黒鍵はメイン武装からサブ武装、『お守りがわりに持っていると通っぽい』ものに転落しま す。
     以後、黒鍵は教会において『敬虔な信徒のみが好んで使う』マニアックな武器となりました。
     ですが!」
    Ciel: Ultimately, this is all just die to the users' inexperience.
    I assert that Black Keys are still, even now, an optimal choice;
    Capable of serving as part of the Conclusive Ordinances that Granfatima has put forward.
    I mean, as long as you have the magical energy, you can create as many as you'd like, and carry them around anywhere you want...
    You can also easily get them past any pesky border controls...
    And they don't need the kind of maintenance that Seven does...
    For an Executor with outstanding physical technique, force of will and magical energy, Black Keys contain limitless possibilities!
    「それはあくまで使用者の未熟によるもの。
     黒鍵は今以て最適解の一つ、グランファテマの語る『結論兵器』の一つになりえると、私は断言 します。
     だって魔力さえあればいくらでも編み出せて、どこにでも持っていけるんですよ?
     面倒な入国手続きも余裕でスルー。
     セブンのようなメンテナンスも必要なし。
     優れた体術、精神力、そして魔力を持つ代行者であれば、黒鍵は無限の可能性を秘めているので す!」
    Last edited by Petrikow; June 19th, 2022 at 12:54 PM.

  18. #298
    And 300 AD is relevant again.

    Weird that Dead Apostles were rampant after Crimson Moon's death tough.

  19. #299
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Prayer Power lmao
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  20. #300
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    A.D. 300 Priest Swordsman?

    9th Century... Charlemagne? Bishop Turpin?

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