Koyanskaya's Lore and Story

[pinetree]

Fox Tail killed my interest when it went years into Suzuka shit I didn't care about

Well, she is the most important character after the protags and is Tamamo's foil so it's only fair they dedicate time to her.

Koya would be more interesting if she wasn't handwaved into having the most lame excuse as to why she looks, talks, and acts like Tamamo despite not being Tamamo but sort of actually is?

Legit question, how is Koyan actually different than, for example, TamaCat.
She's almost the same as Tamamo in looks, actions and speech but has a different origin than the original.
In fact, Koyanskaya is even closer to Tamamo in personality than Cat.

The only difference is that she is not a tail that came directly from Tamamo, but how is that relevant? She's a separate character nonetheles.
And if the answer is that you didn't want Koyanskaya to be a tail anyway, then your expectations were misplaced to begin with.

[Quoren]

I think the character having been the actual Vitch trying to break away from the legend of Tamamo/Amaterasu would have been more interesting. At least, them better foreshadowing the twist would have made it more acceptable, but it just feels weak overall. Tunguska could have been a complete rewrite as of them developing Koyan Light for all we know from what was written up until that point. We should have been able to look back into each Lostbelt and figure out that the clues were there the whole time, rather than looking back with this new context and thinking, "I guess she technically didn't say X/I guess what he said was just a mistake."

[pinetree]

Then your problem is with Koyan's character itself and the foreshadowing leading to the reveal, which is fine. Her not being one of the Tamamo Nine is irrelevant. Being Vitch wouldn't make her Daji and wouldn't have made the Tunguska connection any better.

My issue is people's obsession with "she's not a Tamamo!!!" when she clearly is a Tamamo in every way that matters. But since she not the specific tail Tamamo cut off in CCC, then it doesn't matter, because they're not actually interested in seeing Tamamo the character featured in interesting storylines, and instead care about some nebulous competition of whose waifu gets more relevant screentime.

[Kamera]

If TM don't slap the Tamamo name and attribute to Koyan, no one would care about her. It's just a vicious marketing tactic really, and it worked perfectly.

[pinetree]

Yeah, no one would care about a recurring sexy kemonomimi villain featuring in every major storyline in the game for the last 4 years. She's also a super busted unit in the game, but they sure needed the Tamamo face to get money from the whales.

Tamamo-face is definitely a marketing tactic (on top of being a puposeful writing decision, imo) but implying she wouldn't be popular otherwise is just crazy.

[Alexcoene]

Yeah, that's the same kind of thing you can say with Nero. The Saberface is a shameless marketing tactic, with pretty much no justification in this case, and yet she has a fandom of her own now.

[Kirishima]

Honestly, even if she was a Tamamo, her plan from the start was to differentiate herself from Amaterasu/other Tamamos, so the end result was always going to be her becoming different from one.

Tamamo's arc was concluded in EXTRA and the tails are just a gag and we don't need them anyway.

[Trubo]

Well, she is the most important character after the protags and is Tamamo's foil so it's only fair they dedicate time to her.

Kazuradrop is more important, I'd rather have it use more of the CCC cast than author self-insert + Suzuka, and there's a difference between devoting time and focusing so much on another character that proclaimed main character had less unique screen time than a completely new and largely irrelevant character.

Legit question, how is Koyan actually different than, for example, TamaCat.
She's almost the same as Tamamo in looks, actions and speech but has a different origin than the original.
In fact, Koyanskaya is even closer to Tamamo in personality than Cat.

The only difference is that she is not a tail that came directly from Tamamo, but how is that relevant? She's a separate character nonetheles.
And if the answer is that you didn't want Koyanskaya to be a tail anyway, then your expectations were misplaced to begin with.

Koya could have been a well-received character in her own right without having to lean extremely heavily on fanservice-bait, especially with all the screentime she got, but Nasu went with fanservice instead. I wasn't super thrilled about Kotomine and Shirou being inserted into GO, even if only proxy, but even they have better justifications for why they look like they do than what was presented for Koya. Her not being Tamamo but larping as Tamamo had some hints to establishing a neat twist like with LB4 that could have paid off well, but Tunguska didn't do the past 4 years justice, especially when Nasu literally did this with Nero significantly better. It's just the usual Tamamo gets second-fiddle treatment all over again.

[Comun]

Koyanskaya is a major recurring villain, so saying she wouldn't be popular without Tamamo is like saying Douman wouldn't be popular, which is categorically false.

[Trubo]

If TM don't slap the Tamamo name and attribute to Koyan, no one would care about her. It's just a vicious marketing tactic really, and it worked perfectly.

I disagree. There are several GO-original characters that have done extremely well despite significantly less screentime (e.g. Kiyohime, Raikou, Douman, etc), and Koya was in a pretty good place to capitalize on her story presence to join their ranks.

Yeah, no one would care about a recurring sexy kemonomimi villain featuring in every major storyline in the game for the last 4 years. She's also a super busted unit in the game, but they sure needed the Tamamo face to get money from the whales.

Tamamo-face is definitely a marketing tactic (on top of being a puposeful writing decision, imo) but implying she wouldn't be popular otherwise is just crazy.

No one knew any of this until 6 months ago so what exactly is your point here? Characters with long history would have done decently when finally made available in the gacha, though whether or not she'd have done as well as Koya did by looking like Tamamo is something we will never know.

[Herod]

Koya could have been a well-received character in her own right without having to lean extremely heavily on fanservice-bait, especially with all the screentime she got, but Nasu went with fanservice instead. I wasn't super thrilled about Kotomine and Shirou being inserted into GO, even if only proxy, but even they have better justifications for why they look like they do than what was presented for Koya. Her not being Tamamo but larping as Tamamo had some hints to establishing a neat twist like with LB4 that could have paid off well, but Tunguska didn't do the past 4 years justice, especially when Nasu literally did this with Nero significantly better. It's just the usual Tamamo gets second-fiddle treatment all over again.

Uh, why with Nero it was done better? At least Koyanskaya has some explanation, Nero is a Saberface without any explanation at all.

[Kirishima]

The Nero and Tamamo fan rivalry is something I'll never understand myself. You have the Tamamo fans complaining Nero gets too much, the Nero fans complaining Tamamo gets too much, and in my view they both get pretty much the same treatment.

[pinetree]

@Trubo
If you think Suzuka was irrelevant then I don't think you've been paying much attention to Foxtail, and she's just as much of a new character as Kazuradrop. No point in duscissing this though, since the way you just dodged my argument completely shows you're more interested in wallowing in self-pity over Tamamo losing the imaginary war against Nero.

And my point about gameplay is exactly that. We do know that she'd be popular anyway because her character archetype is popular and other recurring villains are popular, and even if she failed on both fronts somehow, she'd still sell a ton because people would roll for THE Buster farming support anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

The Nero and Tamamo fan rivalry is something I'll never understand myself. You have the Tamamo fans complaining Nero gets too much, the Nero fans complaining Tamamo gets too much, and in my view they both get pretty much the same treatment.

They're been scarred by Extella and have been obsessed ever since.

[Rafflesiac]

Tamamo's only voiced anime roles are in Riyo and FGC and that's just not right.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Uh, why with Nero it was done better? At least Koyanskaya has some explanation, Nero is a Saberface without any explanation at all.

It dragged way too long, and the reveal isn't worthwhile. At least with Nero it's revealed almost immediately so the anticipation didn't quite build up enough to sour people up.

And there's no indication a being adopted by Amaterasu will end up as a Tamamoface. Oh, now that it's a precedent, Daji's gonna be a Tamamoface too.

[Herod]

And there's no guarantee a being adopted by Amaterasu will end up as a Tamamoface. Oh, now that it's a precedent, Daji's gonna be a Tamamoface too.

What the hell are you talking about?

[pinetree]

Daji's gonna be a Tamamoface too.

Obviously??

[OnesFleetingGlory]

What the hell are you talking about?

I read a theory somewhere that the reason Koyan is like Tamamo is because she was adopted by Amaterasu. I don't know how they ended up with that theory. But now I'm afraid Nasu's gonna use that speculation as a basis to justify Daji as a Tamamoface if she shows up someday.

[Reign]

Daji is a bunrei of Amaterasu, of course she'd look like Tamamo

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Oh.

Welp, I'm eating crow.