Where's the impossible boss?Originally Posted by Deathhappens
Stat scaling doesn't mean that your lvl of X is matched by their lvl of X, good stat scaling would be your X+Y to keep you underleveled no matter how much you grind.Anyway, my point isn't that Pokemon is or ever was "hard" without level scaling, it's more that adding level scaling would level (heh) every possible curve in difficulty and leave you in fights where you pretty much only ever press Attack.
wow, Pinwheel disrespect smh
I mean I guess there were the wheel skeletons
That's even worse though.Stat scaling doesn't mean that your lvl of X is matched by their lvl of X, good stat scaling would be your X+Y to keep you underleveled no matter how much you grind.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Your opinion honestly makes no sense.
Going back to my question about how the three storylines will work, I do find it interesting that after looking at the map in detail, the majority of the Gyms are located on the Western side of the Region while the majority of the Flag places (whatever they may be) are on the Eastern half. Thus I could see something where they put the easier Gyms coalesced together and incentivise you to go to them first rather than the two Gyms high up in the remote snowy mountains which could be higher in level.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
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Memes aside, what exactly is it that you don't understand?
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Can't speak for Spin, but personally I don't see why you'd advocate being able to steamroll a Fire Gym with a Grass type as a positive? Sure, it hurts in situations where you keep losing by a hair and so you go and level up a bit and beat the gym, but in those situations there's often a better solution staring you in the face you've ignored.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
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Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
Wait, where did I advocate that? All I said was that level scaling is bad and level scaling that keeps you perpetually underlevelled to maintain an illusion of difficulty is even worse.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
I was honestly never memeing here today. Firstly we have to establish what you even want out of the single player Pkmn experience.
I mean, they definitely know how to make good and difficult encounters. Ultra Necrozma is one of the hardest battles in Pokemon. I also think Legends: Arceus did good with the final boss "rush" sort of thing it did. The issue is that all the difficulty is backloaded in these games, even if you nuzlocke (you should), there's little to no difficulty. Granted they are supposed to be for kids, but BW2 was able to have a challenge mode that was actually pretty fun. I don't see why they can't just add challenge mode, or difficulty sliders back into the games that just increase the level curve, make the AI smarter, and give some Pokemon their hidden abilities and maybe items. It would make the games exponentially more fun. Also, forced EXP share contributed heavily to this, as well as BST and move power creep.
What I personally want isn't really relevant here. Can we all agree that being able to set your own difficulty, as it were, is superior to the game maintaining an arbitrarily adjusted difficulty throughout?
Last edited by Deathhappens; August 7th, 2022 at 07:16 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
No, actually, lol. I like modular difficulty but I do not like "I grinded so hard that the boss fights are 10 lvls under me so I just click flamethrower and win." There are certain conditions a good game must maintain for the sake of its own integrity.
Not really. I'd like my control over the difficulty, to be as minimal as possible in most games.
"I grinded too hard so the boss can't hurt me" is a baseline Pokemon problem, the only way to solve that would be to go back to (or rather, stick with) Arceus' damage formulas which allow even 20 levels lower Pokemon to put the hurt on.
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Can you elaborate on this?
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
In regards to RPGs, a well designed game should take into account how strong you'll be by playing naturally, and that should be the ideal difficulty.
Etrian Odyssey, for example, is amazing on that front. While you can grind, killing lower level monsters gives diminishing returns, and simply exploring the levels thoroughly leaves you at the perfect levels necessary to tackle each boss. It also allows you to delevel your characters (to an extent), in case you ever realize you overdid it.
Even if you can't progress due to difficulty, the soliton is probably in party composition rather than levels.
I kinda wish games didn't even have difficulty options at the start, honestly. I don't want to have to guess what is the ideal difficulty to experience the game in.
Like, I'm currently playing Xenoblade Chronicles 3, and while the game is great, difficulty is a mess. The game sections off exp gained in quests so that you can use it or not at your discretion, which in theory shoud allow you to explore and do side content without fear of overleveling for the main story (like it did in XC2), but the truth is that you end up fighting so many enemies in these sidequests that you overlevel anyway. The game allows you to delevel... but only after you finish it.
I started on Normal, so when I noticed I was too strong, I switched to Hard, but then the difference in difficulty was too stark, so I used bonus EXP to level up. Then it turns out that acquiring classes requires you to fight enemies within 5 level of yours, but now everything around me is lower than that, so it's going to take way longer to develop my characters in that way. Not to mention doing quests continues to level me beyond what's ideal, and the most important battle system in the game also grants more EXP if you play well, so I'm left in this limbo of EXP and difficulty management that shouldn't exist.
Going back to Pokémon, stuff like the EXP share should be fine. All characters leveling at the same time shouldn't be an issue, but they are so bad at balancing EXP gains that even battling just the trainers in your path makes you overleveled.
Last edited by pinetree; August 7th, 2022 at 11:37 PM.
Well, a proposed and generally proven method to fix that Pokemon issue is scaling difficulty. I'm a big-time Arceus truther but we had people on this very forum who overleveled and smashed all the bosses, so clearly that doesn't work.
That's the thing, Pokemon in it's current format isn't really balanced for EXP share, because of how fast you overlevel. The actual solution to this, without full on removing EXP share, is what they did in gen3-5, which is a held item EXP share. This allowed leveling to be more balanced, even if you still could overlevel, it was harder to have a full party overlevel, which curved the difficulty.
Nah, the actual solution is balancing the amount of EXP earned and maybe even going back to the BW style alongside it
No other RPG I've played has had a problem balancing leveling just because all your characters get exp.
I don't think the solution to "some people grind too much" should be "make everyone unable to overlevel/underlevel any and all content". I'm sure some people like being able to grind the first area possible and crush every subsequent content without challenge, just like some people like challenging themselves by only using underleveled Pokemon or doing nuzlockes.
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Agreed, making sure the "mandatory" XP you get doesn't put you too far ahead of the level curve should be a good first step. A good second step would be making gyms back into serious challenges, with trainers having full or mostly full teams and gym leaders actually utilising Pokemon stats and abilities properly. It's easy to steamroll with even a slight level advantage when all the Rock Pokemon at the Rock gym die to a single Grass Knot, less so when you have an Aerodactyl or a Hisuian Arcanine thrown in.
And while I'm breaking out the wishlist, make Doubles and Triple Battles a thing again, please.
Last edited by Deathhappens; August 8th, 2022 at 03:48 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Just don't bring back BW evolution levels or I will become the Joker.
What an adorable boi.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
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