so Hibiki is basically Chaldeas but for the universe instead of Earth?
so Hibiki is basically Chaldeas but for the universe instead of Earth?
https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...=1#post1480568Originally Posted by Reign
planned all along . . .
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I am honored to experience this moment in this fan community. I feel silly and giddy.
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
Wait I'm confused. If he isn't in World B yet, how can he "gather the Jewels" to build his body to get there?
Spoiler:
dont let your memes be dreams
Man, it's been years since I've bothered with any TM lore. FGO just burned me out.
But all this talk of the old DAA gives me hope for future Tsukihime stuff.
this was brought up in [redacted] but i'm curious to what people think here. how does this possibly work???Takeuchi: Is Zelretch still a vampire in Fate worlds?
Nasu: No, but he's got something along the lines of immortality all the same.
Same way it works for Mage Nero probably. Don't think too hard, it's magic.
Perhaps there's an actual physical (or metaphysical) barrier/limitations whenever history divulges in the Fate and Tsuki worlds that separates certain elements within and rejects attempts of "extra" information that goes against the narrative beyond this general divide? To make an thematic analogy with trees: I know next to nothing about trees, but like many species, certain ones thrive in specific environments, while others/closely related species can still thrive despite being in a different environment. However, beyond this genetic similarity, should one species be put in the other's environment, the differences are made clear. They're fundamentally different existence that cannot survive, like how a human Zelretch would be at the very least thematically and biologically contrasting as opposed to a vampire Zelretch. Though given how they're both immortals and Zelretch makes everything complicated with his parallel world shtick, his differences would probably be narrowing at best. The species in this comparison here are the world, while the environment is the barrier.
It may answer some unasked questions about the metaphysics, such as can Beasts or high tier gods cross worlds, and as far as I'm aware, what I proposed holds up, unless I'm missing some info. I'm not a lore master for the Tsukihime and Fate divide, so take the lore theorizing cope with a grain of salt.
Last edited by HumanComplex; August 15th, 2022 at 02:16 AM.
Ah, I misunderstood. Thought you were just asking why he's immortal. This seems like it would support the multiple tree theory and multiple Zelretch to me. So this profile should have no bearing on other Zel though you may be able to gleam some information about his personality in those worlds.
Doesn't this implies that each universe has it's own Akashic Records? Isn't the Swirl of Root outside of time and space?
Not necessarily. It can also be that Akasha has crosstabs for each timeline.
For instance, we know that Sion turns into a DA in some Melty timelines. She is explicitly not a DA in GO.
If the record was applied across all timelines and universes, she would be a DA in GO.
Therefore, it seems as though records can be specific to adjacent worlds.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
How can we have one Zelretch for an infinite number of worlds? This is absurd!
But what if Zelretch moves from one world to another, where there is another one?
well, when we had 2 Emiya Shirous in the same world they started merging memories
They shuffle around like people at a speed dating event
Different world trees being completely separated from each other still makes the most sense. It's just that a Tsuki world tree would be even more removed from Fate world trees than say Prototype tree would be from mainline FSN tree.
I assume that in the process of achieving the Second Magic, all Zelretches would simply combine into one
Worldbuilding
In TsukiRE, our latest work, the worldbuilding inherited from the previous version of the game has been updated to both be deeper and more modern.
There are a few things that aren't going to be revealed yet,
but I would like to introduce some that were part of that update.
Setting
The city goes by the name of Souya.
In the previous version of the game, we used a provincial city as the setting, but now, we've changed it to an urban one. It is a fantastic place, neighboring a gigantic factory about four stations away, reminiscent of the Tokyo-Yokahama Industrial Area.
The protagonist’s high-school lies close to a residential area far from the station, and as such, he does not hang out there on his way home from school. At the end of this residential district lies a forest that has been there since ancient times, and by this forest’s entrance stands the mansion of the great landowner Tohno family.
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception
The peculiar ability possessed by Shiki, our protagonist. Categorized as a psychic ability.
He can see the normally imperceptible ‘lines of death’, something akin to the point of collapse in all things.
These lines of death are like seams, which means all it takes to sever an object is to run a blade through them.
The strength and hardness of the object does not enter the equation. No matter how hard or frail, the feeling is always the same. Perceivable = Cuttable.
In addition, as things dismembered by the lines of death ‘kills’ that specific part, healing is impossible. This is because the severed part has died on the existential level, even if it only looks like it has been cut.
Shiki is a living being and thus he's able to better understand the death of things that are alive, same as him—this is why he unconsciously perceives the lines of death on the living.
However, Shiki himself can stress his consciousness and overexert his eyeballs to visualize even the ordinarily incomprehensible lines of death on inanimate objects, and through this, he can perceive even the ‘death of space—or, death of existence’, as an ultimate locality. (Shiki’s brain is unable to withstand seeing the lines to this level)
In addition to the lines of death, there are the points of death, which are a grade above the lines.
If the lines of death can be likened to blood vessels, the points of death are hearts.
Those that have had their point of death pierced are killed in literally a single strike. Just as in the case with the ‘death of space’, Shiki has to overexert himself if he wants to be able to see them.
It's important to note that while the lines of death exist in all things, there are differences in how distinct they are.
Putting it simply: the lines of death are lifespan.
He can easily perceive the death of humans who only have the lifespan of about fifty to a hundred years, but it is difficult for him to perceive the death of existences who possess a lifespan in the hundreds or thousands of years.
Meaning, as long as he is trying to perceive the concept of death as a shape, he cannot quite so readily grasp it coming from things that are difficult to kill.
This is why when Shiki is up against high-ranked Dead Apostles or Arcueid in the story, he has to push his consciousness to the limit if he wants to perceive their death.
(*High-ranked Dead Apostles are hard to kill, while Arcueid cannot die. Shiki’s murder of Arcueid in the beginning of the game made the impossible possible. In the Tsukihime world, that Arcueid would die or be killed is something very much out of the norm)
Psychic Abilities
Special abilities endowed to the body from birth such as those possessed by Shiki, Kohaku and Hisui are known as physic abilities.
Whether it be through training or studies, they are impossible to obtain after birth, no matter the method.
Through successive inbreeding, it's possible to pass these psychic abilities on to some extent, even if it's not possible to perfectly reproduce the ability possessed by the parent.
Shiki could be seen as an even further mutation, as he belongs to the Nanaya clan, who have passed along one of these mutations for generations.
(*The Nanayas’ special ability is not associated with ‘death’, but rather concerns ‘karma’. The reason this altered into ‘death’ in Shiki's case is because of his near-death experience)
Mixbloods
Those that have inherited the blood of ancient purebloods, like the Tohno or Saiki.
Pureblooded species means non-humans (oni-kind), or alternatively those that have strayed from being human and turned into onis.
As they have inherited the role of nature’s sense of touch (output devices), they have abilities that are different from those of psychic ones.
Psychic abilities are ultimately something which the human performs on their own, while the abilities gained through mixed blood is that of natural interference/natural contact—not something manifested by just one’s own personal abilities (one’s brain).
In addition, psychic abilities (generally) abide by physical laws, while the abilities of mixbloods often do not. Fantastic stories, folklore, tales of old—in order words, unnatural phenomena which cannot occur in reality.
Psychic abilities and mixbloods have a relationship similar to that of magecraft and magic.
Magecraft and Hexcraft
Technology used by Ciel and Roa. Known as magecraft—spatial interference and application methods based on rituals (systems).
Magecraft can be used by just about anyone with enough training, but the potency depends on the individual’s own qualities (the number and quality of their Magic Circuits).
In the story of Tsukihime, runes, kabbalah, hexcraft, witchcraft, wonderworking, etc, are all bundled together as magecraft. Xian arts and esoteric buddhism are also included in this category, but as they're part of a different faction, they're not brought up in Tsukihime.
Magecraft is basically all-purpose, however, it cannot make the impossible possible.
At the end of the day, magecraft is a technique for abbreviating the processes of methods already possible to the individual themselves.
Even if there was magecraft that allowed one to go to the moon, it would still require preparation with costs on par with—or even exceeding—that of actually creating a rocket.
“Sure, it’s amazing being able to shoot fire from one’s hands—but nothing more than just amazing. If all you wanna do is shoot some fire, wouldn’t it be more efficient to just bring a blowtorch?”
This is the simplest explanation you can give regarding magecraft in TYPE-MOON lore.
You could say that magecraft is something which modern science can substitute for.
But you could also say that magecraft can substitute for science.
Separate from magecraft, there's that which can perform things impossible to realize through modern human technology, called magic.
By the time of Tsukihime’s story, there are only five things which can still be called magic.
True Ancestors
Those treated as the ‘original bloodsuckers’ in the Tsukihime world.
They are the cause of the vampires who run rampant among the public, even if the True Ancestors themselves are a far cry from the common perception people have surrounding vampires.
They are few in number and exceedingly close to immortal.
Even if they're exposed to sunlight, it would only ever give them slight anemia. Additionally, they aren't affected by the cleansing rites employed by any religions either.
True Ancestors are not individuals independent of the natural world like humans are, but an older species still one with nature.
They're often misunderstood as being undying and eternally youthful because they are the the Touch of the Planet, but the important point is that their time-scale is different from that of humans.
Their lifespan is naturally immense; its limits, so to speak, are only those of nature itself. True Ancestors and fairies are something akin to the planet’s white blood cells. So they possess abilities sufficient to exterminate any of the various factors which would do harm to the planet.
However, at the time of their birth, a singular error occurred within them.
Probably something due to the influence of that after which they were modeled.
They turned out to possess the desire—the primordial, survival-oriented desire—to ingest the blood of intelligent lifeforms.
Moreover, because they were incarnated as protectors, their objectivity was diluted. They gained autonomy, as one of the many species living on the planet. Basically, they came in possession of a sense of values closer to that of humans.
As they have ceased to be free of self-interest—such as noncorporeal elementals ought to be—they have lost sight of their role as protectors, to the point that, among them, some have even become like humans, and gained independence from the natural world.
The True Ancestors have no limits.
As a result of being provided back-up from the planet, if the need should arise, they can strengthen their abilities until that need is met (however, the amount and speed that each True Ancestor can increase it by differs per individual).
In addition, the power of their will is enough to take actual form, meaning that the thoughts of the True Ancestor becomes a weapon on its own, influencing even the world itself.
Fantasy Manifestation—also known as Marble Phantasm—the reformulation of the world through probabilistic fluctuations.
However, they cannot directly interfere with individuals that have become independent from the world, such as humans or animals. By distancing themselves from nature, humans have grown weak, but at same time, won't perish even if nature itself does, and in doing so, have obtained absolute freedom. At the end of the day, Fantasy Manifestation can only freely exert change unto the environment and the situation.
As a slight digression, if the ridiculous situation of a castle appearing in the middle of a city at night was to occur, this is thought to be because the vampire (True Ancestor) suzerain of it willed it into creation.
As a species, the True Ancestors are practically gods, but they do still have a flaw.
Though True Ancestors, they are still bloodsuckers. It is the very act of sucking blood itself which serves as their silver stake to the heart.
Though they are the cause that created the vampires (Dead Apostles) on Earth, True Ancestors themselves have zero need to consume blood for survival. The energy they need for that they can get through the ingestion of calories.
That said, they cannot go against their instinct as a species (to ingest and partake in the information of intelligent life = bloodsucking), which ultimately results in them sucking the blood of humans.
They execute humans in order to bring harmony to nature—though in actuality, more than anything else, they need them in order to fulfill their own desires.
This contradiction causes the minds of these proud beings to collapse in on themselves. The more blood these proud elementals suck, the more they degenerate into beasts, craving pleasure the same as any human would.
This degeneration is rightly called ‘falling to evil’.
True Ancestors which have this happen to them forget the consciousness they have birthed for themselves and become powerful vampires who begin corrupting the world.
As they do not have lifespans, ‘to lose sight of their values’ is the same as their ‘death of self’.
In order to prevent this death of consciousness, True Ancestors use a large portion of their abilities to inhibit their vampiric urges.
The longer they withstand their desire to suck blood, the larger it grows, and yet, they keep suppressing it in an unending battle of perseverance. By slamming the tremendous power of their will up against their own mind, they can control their desire to drink human blood.
Invariably, as they hold back on sucking blood more and more, the time eventually comes when they realize that they cannot suppress their vampiric urges any longer, at which point they willingly enter into an eternal sleep. This is the activity threshold for those with an endless lifespan—one could perhaps argue it is what humans would actually call their lifespan.
Dead Apostles
Something much like what the public at large imagines a vampire being like.
Immortal, weak to sunlight, sucks human blood, transforms into beasts or mist, etc...
They're called vampires in the game as to make things a bit easier to understand.
*However, the creature known as the vampire started being talked about in the 1900s. In real folklore, they're actually the monster with the lowest pedigree. In contrast, werewolves, who are often seen as their henchmen, are monsters passed down from days of old—in fact, parts of what the vampire was modeled after were lycanthrope characteristics.
That’s why in the world of Tsukihime, they are more properly treated as bloodsuckers—the general term for things that suck blood from their own kind.
Dead Apostles are—just as one would imagine from their name—dead. They are divided into those that have been transformed into one by some kind of magecraft, and those that have had their blood sucked by a True Ancestor, and become its puppet.
Unlike True Ancestors, both of these kinds have to suck human blood in order to survive. Blood is considered a necessity for them to live.
They're also weak to sunlight, and as they're unable to completely rid themselves of the shared awareness of being human, they are defeated when faced with religious cleansing rites.
Last edited by Petrikow; August 23rd, 2023 at 06:44 PM.
Glad to see Shiki is still officially a product of multigenerational incest.
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