Now you finally understand LB7's real message.Originally Posted by tipoima
Now you finally understand LB7's real message.
It was mentioned that one of the things that still lacked an explanation was the tree symbolism, and that is something that always bothered me about Cosmos in the Lostbelt. Olga being the Alien God makes sense. She fell into CHALDEAS, Subject E fell into Bluebook's world. Moonlinght/Lostroom Olga experimentation scene, Subject E being experimented on. Everything fits. Why the trees, though? And if U-Olga is the Alien God, did she rescue herself? Trying to find an explanation for this, one thing came to mind: Extella Link's mural. There, together with Sefar, we find two other figures (speculated to be Velber 01 and Velber 03, but with no confirmation): a giant man with a halo and a strange scepter and a giant tree monster. I always found weird that they presented another alien tree villain with Cosmos in the Lostbelt already having this theme. Then, I started thinking, and there are a series of hints that seem to point to a connection between the Alien God and Sefar. Most of it comes from memory, though, and I won't have the references ready, but still wanted to share my thoughts, even if some might be wrong.
Salem shows us a dialogue between Raum and Zepar, where Zepar criticizes Raum's idea to bring a fictional/outer existence to bring humanity salvation, as that already failed 14,000 years ago. Now, this seems to be talking about Sefar, but it actually isn't. Sefar was never stated to be something brought forth by humanity, it just followed the Velber's cyclic route of harvesting. This leads me to think of two possibilities:
1) Sefar's invasion of Moon Cell-less timelines is a result of the ancestors of the Animuspheres tentative of preserving humanity's future, which seems to have been their goal since forever. Gilgamesh's ancestors were around at that time, it wouldn't be strange for the precursors of the Chaldean astronomers to also be found there. They called forth an existence from outside their universe, from the stars they studied, the Velber, but the Velber's understanding of "preserving" is to assimilate (this word is important) everything into data. Sefar absorbs bodies, Velber 03 apparently absorbs souls (Gilgamesh's side story from Extella, also calls her prototype of the goddess of vengeance), Velber 01 probably absorbs minds, to complete the trio. In this scenario the mural would indeed be showing the three Velber "siblings" and the Alien God would be Velber 03, Altera's "little sister", and the giant tree monster. In favor of this idea we have the lines on U-Olga's costume, very similar to the Velber corruption lines Eliza and Archimedes show in Extella and Olga's "Arsimilate" surname. Also, the many similarities between CHALDEAS and the Moon Cell, which might be because they somehow contacted a timeline where it exists.
2)The Animusphere's still summoned a fictional/outsider god 14,000 years ago, but to fight the Velber and save humanity, trying a fire against fire approach (an alien for an alien). In this scenario, the mural would represent not the three Velber siblings, but a battle between Sefar and maybe Zeus and the Animusphere Tree God. I thought of this option because the Lostbelt created to nurture the Alien God's vessel from the start, the ideal world for it, was a timeline where Velber was defeated without the holy sword's help. Not only that, the origin of the Britain Lostbelt is also related to the cataclysm and a preview image for Lostbelt 7 appears to show a decapitated giant bunny-woman head, indicating once more a relationship with Sefar (don't know if that's been confirmed or deconfirmed now that the Lostbelt released).
In any case, the Animusphere fictional god, be it a Velber or something completely new, would have been defeated and turned into some kind of egg, a world egg similar to what Koyanskaya becomes at the end of Tunguska, which the Animusphere would keep for milennia, having, however, lost the means necessary to use it in the cataclysm. The idea that the Alien God is indeed an ancient being is supported by Zeus calling her a censored name in Olympus, indicating he already knows her (This is one of those I'm not so sure actually happened, might be misremembering). Fast forward to the recent past, Marisbury uses the world egg to create CHALDEAS (explaining how the heck he managed to get a copy of the soul of the world), and manages to extract a living fragment from it, Olga. Being a part of this ancient being, it would explain her unknown year of birth. When falling inside CHALDEAS, Olga Marie would've regressed to her true form, a small branch from the giant tree, like the one we see during Traum. The branch is now dead because the soul became once more connected to the whole. The Alien God "saving" his similar would be the greater soul of the world egg becoming pissed at CHALDEA's humanity from their treatment of what is essentially a part of herself and extinguishing them. This rage "awakened" the Alien God, which sought to fulfill its duty of preserving humanity, kickstarting the whole Lostbelt plan. The priestess would be our Olga's soul, which could partially materialize in our world despite being in a different phase due to her previous experience in the non-simulated reality. This would explain her looking sorrowfully at us during the prologue, appearing like she wanted to warn us. Her existence as a fragment of the AG in true reality is also why she's its precursor. Her appearence also feels very Sefar-ish, so that's another point in favor of a connection between the two.
Marisbury's plan would've been to use the singularities and the Sirius Light to awaken the Alien God and guarantee humanity's future this way, and his methods would've been like those Petrikow described, using Rayshift to cause the Fuyuki singularity and the following chain reaction.
That's my two cents, and they might be veryyy wrong anyways, just wanted to share, to see if it could give some insights. Would like to thank Petrikow for presenting his colossal research, it inspired me to write these toughts and to get invested in FGO lore once more, it was a great read.
Last edited by TamamoRoute; December 27th, 2022 at 05:41 PM.
No problem, I think it's an interesting thought too. There is actually nothing that makes me happier than people feeling inspired to theorize on their own because they read mine. The thing mentioned in Salem about Raum's plan having already been tried is very intriguing. Perhaps it is actually referring to something from the Lostbelts, rather than actual history, hence why it failed? There were tons of lines from Salem I'd wanted to bring up, but couldn't "fit in", so to speak, and that was one of them.
1. Bring Olga Back
2. Bring Olga Back
3. Bring Olga Back
That's probably the most coherent and interesting theory on FGO I've read. Great work.
After reading Back Alley Nightmare I suspected that there's at least two Olgas and her being connected with Chaldeas pretty much align with my own understanding about why Lev even threw her there. Poor Olga just can't catch a break, isn't she.
Now I wonder, if the parts about whole thing being a simulation ends up being true, it means that to keep it up we'll have to keep Observer (Priestess) around. Will they continue FGO after part 2 (which they probably will) without dismantling the simulation and releasing Olga from her duty?.. Also, how Guda even got inside this "world" is even more intriguing. Questions, questions...
Last edited by Quasar; December 27th, 2022 at 06:45 PM.
Wake up in a hospital bed, skin and bones because they've been in a simulation for the last x years along with millions of others.
All this talk about the FGO timeline being a simulation worries me...
Image
I think as interesting as it might be if FGO was a sim that could be deleted, it doesn't really hold up for me the way Extra stuff does with similar ideas. Would underwrite the story quite a bit.
I read through most of this, and while I don't neccesarily agree or disagree with your interpretation (mostly on more nebulous scenes, like those covering Moonlight/Lostroom; the frame you chose of Olga being "experimented on" seems to me like nothing but a very common depiction of her anxiety/insecurities, for example) if even half of this is correct, there's been so many attempts to deliberately obfuscate the truth that the story itself has been rendered meaningless. In fact, I hope you're wrong. Indulging in so many red herrings and unexpected twists to keep up suspense that they lose automatically to Occam's Razor is an unfortunately common failing in Japanese light fiction, particularly where soft sci-fi themes of time travel and/or parallel universes are involved, but I hold Nasu, the supposed ultimate architect of all these disparate threads, to higher esteem than this.
Last edited by Deathhappens; December 27th, 2022 at 11:23 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Why exactly? FGO has been emphasizing how things/events/people still matter even if they get erased since Part 1.
Here's Drill-kun's video on Singularity F!
He has a bunch of other ideas, but goes in more depth about Singularity F than I do. His idea is that Marisbury used Logos React Generic to create a simulated reality where he won the Holy Grail War and granted his wish, and then collided this simulation with F/SN's version of the Holy Grail War with a Fantasy Tree. The 'crater' found at Tohsaka Mansion is a result of Saber Alter blowing up this Fantasy Tree with her Noble Phantasm. Ultimately, Saber was granted her Grail by the Counter Force as to fulfill her contract with Alaya to protect mankind together with Emiya as Counter Guardians. Since F/GO's simulated world-line leads to the Bleaching, ultimately Fuyuki has to be returned to proper history (F/SN) in order to save the world for real.
Last edited by Petrikow; December 28th, 2022 at 05:18 AM.
As a starting aside, can I just say I love the above idea. So good.
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You know... Based on the theory... It could actually be 3 Olgas. I mean, considering we're playing with a God and Spirit, why wouldn't Mash be the Holy Child? It would also make the 5th Anni PV with Olga and Mash drinking wine have a more interesting meaning that way. This would also mean we've had Olga with us the entire time. It would also make her part of that PV where she's waking up from a dream with a tear in her eye probably mean that she's waking up from the dream of being Mash Kyrielight. Marisbury also probably spent so much time with Mash near the end to give Olga some memories of him after he's gone and just in case his insane plan didn't work to let her know how much he loved her. As Mash is the success of what Marisbury tried to do. He just needs to implant her onto the world and boom. She's saved.
Marisbury probably also didn't have the idea of how to try saving her until Solomon transformed into Romani. This would give reason as to why Solomon only had a vision in that exact moment and why in all the other timelines Marisbury failed. He didn't know that servant reincarnation actually worked and is basically fiction made real. So if you are trying to write fiction to reality, why not use the best author for that? The writer of the Gospel of Matthew. You might think that I'm pulling strings, but couldn't Mash's name be the writer's NP? (Gospel of) Matthew: Kyrie(Lord of)light? We've got plenty of servants who don't have an actual name. Also, if you are trying to get a servant on your side, why not the person who no one knows the name of who wrote one of the most debated pieces of possible fiction that millions treat as fact? At full function the NP might even make you travel the same road as what Jesus did. I mean U-Olga has a ton of Apostles, one of them will eventually betray her (Ritsuka), she'll pay the "penance" (Subject E/God), be dead for awhile (Priestess) and then be reborn (Mash). Probably also explains why he used the wish to get money, because all he could afford to do was throw money at the situation before actually seeing it for real.
I'd also wager that while Olga is a Beast, she isn't Beast VII. She's Beast V - Wrath. Her entire outlook is of someone who wants to get revenge on everyone and anything for the injustices that were caused to her. Except, as I pointed out, if Olga's playing out the entire Gospel of Matthew, then her wrath is in fact entirely misplaced and so she's going to fail to Ritsuka. This would especially be true if she is Subject E.
If Beast VII is anyone, The End is Ritsuka. In fact that's probably who brought him over from the right side of history. While The End is named that, they probably are like all the other Beasts. They love humanity and actually want humanity to continue living. This gambit is a timeline that shouldn't exist, so it would make sense in a way that they want it gone. They also picked the greatest choice to get the job done, but also make sure they don't get noticed for when their eventual betrayal happens.
Also yes, I'm suggesting because of your theory that the traitor to Chaldea is Ritsuka. After all, if we go by the unified theory, the purpose of Chaldea is to revive Olga then Ritsuka has to be the traitor. Everyone else is helping the cause to restore Olga. Even Goredolf and Meuniere are probably there to oversee that Olga is revived, even if they themselves don't know it. Bliumage's picture of what Da Vinci says is actually Smol Da Vinci realizing what's going to happen to them. Ritsuka will find a way to win. It is pretty much inevitable after the 3rd Lost Belt is destroyed. Smol Da Vinci probably has already accepted this fact and probably is cursing Big Da Vinci at that moment.
This theory also explains why Nasu's telling us to expect a bittersweet ending to Chaldea's story. There's probably not a way to end this story without one. If I remember correctly, when a singularity is destroyed, the world corrects itself and the memories fade away. When this is all over, the only person who might remember anything correctly is in fact only Mash/Olga. Everyone else will probably not remember things the way they are, but how the world corrects things. Now here's a wonderfully sad kicker. Isn't it stated in the anime that the opposite gendered version of Ritsuka dies in the bombing? That's probably Fujimaru's fate, baring someone changing that (how, I don't know).
Sorry if this isn't as well thought out as yours. I'm doing this late at night after my cat destroyed my post several different times.Hopefully this is decent enough. Amazed this didn't get posted at any time the cat killed the other times I tried writing this up.
This whole collection of ideas is stonking and has provoked a lot of discussion among me and my friends as of late. Kudos, great work, excellently compiled, thorough and very easy to follow.
Perhaps a bit late but I wanted to thank you for all this. I'm not that great at theorizing stuff and I've yet to do a full reread of the story (planning it for when it's actually over) so this thread helped me a lot. Even if some of your speculations end up being different from what'll happen the foundation you built with all the information gathered here will at least make me better appreciate and understand whatever the answer given in LB7/the finale is gonna be.
More importantly you made me appreciate Back-Alley Nightmare more, which I loved even when I couldn't quite grasp what the hell was going on.
Great work!
Mash being Olga seems too far-fetched to me. She's supposed to die at the end of the quest to reverse the incineration. She's got a homunculus lifespan to start with and now she's at risk of fully converting into a Servant. That doesn't sound like a good avatar, and the idea that Marisbury loves Olga? Pfft. Just go look at Case Files.
Mash's importance was just as a portable summoning system to him, and maybe a prototype of Servant merging if we get JRPG boss Marisbury-Solomon or some such later.
Last edited by Sath; December 28th, 2022 at 12:33 PM.
It's 100% just because I played Extella recently, but it did make me think of something. In Extella, we learn some rules when dividing a person. There are three parts- the Mind, the Body, and the Soul. The Mind has a hard time maintaining its memories and is doomed to vanish if left without an anchor. The Soul is unable to communicate with the outside world, and is very easy to sway. The Body loses its memories entirely and creates a new temporary personality, remembering only their most critical purpose.
I firmly believe that Specimen E is Olga, but any theory I've had has had a hard time reconciling that with the Alien God. But Specimen E, the Alien Priestess, and the Alien God all have some strong parallels to the Mind, Soul, and Body respectively.
I'd also like to thank you for making and sharing the GUT, was for sure a great read/thing to wait for next instalment.
On "making F/SN happen", at this point we not only have all the OG servants but also about half their Masters summoned to Chaldea as Psedues right? Would be kinda funny if repairing it means we have to bring all of the summoned version there instead of going back far enough to get things back on track.
There is one thing about theories like these that I don't understand at all:
If the theory is true then how on Earth would Nasu be able to explain all of that information and all those intricate connections in a way which is understandable to the general playerbase who don't pay much attention to the specific details of the lore?
I mean just look at how much Petrikow had to write to explain his points. I don't know if it's even possible to make a casual-friendly (for lack of a better word) "big reveal" that doesn't confuse the average player if the theory is true.
Maybe a dedicated chapter meant for the reveal, with lots of flashbacks and infodumps as Chaldea gets to the bottom of it all before climax chapter.
Though some plot points are starting to unravel by Traum, and certainly in the current Lostbelt onward, so the infodump won't be too much in said chapter.
They'll just have Holmes explain everything when they go back to Chaldea. Probably.
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