Grand Unified Theory: CHALDEA

[TresserT]

With the comparison with SO3 is brought up, I think there could be parallel with FGO here. My theory would be:

CHALDEAS is Time Gate, and U-Olga/Priestess is Sophia Esteed. It's essentially a portal to the real world if it turns out to be a simulation. Daybit wanted it oblitrated as to prevent the simulation from encroaching the reality. He couldn't do it from outside, and so he needed to enter and use what he could to destroy the path from simulation's side to isolate it.

See, that's more or less been my mentality on the whole thing. What really confuses me, though, is that Daybit says that this was the Crypters' purpose. Not his purpose, the Crypters' purpose. Since the Alien God wants to rule the Earth, not destroy it, it wouldn't make sense for that purpose to come from the AG. More likely they got that purpose from Marisbury. So why would Marisbury go through all the effort of creating this simulated world just to destroy it before it could do anything?

Not at all disagreeing with your conclusion, mind you, more like this is the big mystery I've been thinking about for the last week. Maybe Daybit was meant as a failsafe in case something went wrong, and something did? That would also explain why Daybit's been helping us despite being fundamentally our enemy. He's going to destroy the world if it's unsalvageable, and he thinks it is, but is still willing to let it continue if we can prove it's worth saving.

But this is just me grasping for straws here. I don't necessarily believe all that, just one of the only solutions I could come up with.

[Shlugo]

Yeah, Marisbury plan looks really weird in this context.

1. Create a simulated world.
2. Destroy simulated world.
3. ???
4. Profit.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

See, that's more or less been my mentality on the whole thing. What really confuses me, though, is that Daybit says that this was the Crypters' purpose. Not his purpose, the Crypters' purpose. Since the Alien God wants to rule the Earth, not destroy it, it wouldn't make sense for that purpose to come from the AG. More likely they got that purpose from Marisbury. So why would Marisbury go through all the effort of creating this simulated world just to destroy it before it could do anything?

Not at all disagreeing with your conclusion, mind you, more like this is the big mystery I've been thinking about for the last week. Maybe Daybit was meant as a failsafe in case something went wrong, and something did? That would also explain why Daybit's been helping us despite being fundamentally our enemy. He's going to destroy the world if it's unsalvageable, and he thinks it is, but is still willing to let it continue if we can prove it's worth saving.

But this is just me grasping for straws here. I don't necessarily believe all that, just one of the only solutions I could come up with.

If Marisbury's shooter turns out to be Daybit, then it makes sense to me. He demanded Marisbury to shut CHALDEAS down since he only knew how to enter, but not to destroy it, and believed that Marisbury knew. But with him dead, he only had that option left.

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I don't know why he said it's Crypter's purpose though, unless he's lying.

[fumei]

Seeing that I never played that, I wouldn't have known. Judging from the Wikipedia plot summary though, there seems to be an important difference between that and our case: the Eternal Sphere's inhabitants were at least briefly able to break out of the simulation and could fight and destroy their own creator. As far as we know, Chaldea doesn't seem likely to have any such luck given that nobody in our team can use the Second Magic to that degree. And the likelihood of deus ex machina-ing a way out of the simulation's shutdown like what happened in that game is very bad indeed.

Well, it depends on how you look at it, I guess. Even if we (as Chaldea) can't literally step back outside into the "real world", what we're doing right now is literally fighting back against the "creator", so to speak. Our (Chaldea's) assumption right now is that UOM is the mastermind and main villain, and in fact, for all of part 2 we've been working up to fighting the Alien God who was established as the perpetrator of this whole scenario early on already. If you don't call that fighting back against our "creator", then I don't know. Sure, if it turns out that Marisbilly or someone is the real mastermind we can't literally fight back, but I don't think the point SO3 was trying to make was that the characters were only okay with their world being "fake" and them not being "real" because they got to beat up the guy who put them in that situation to begin with. The fact that they could fight whatsoever and like "prove their worth" and show that despite it all being fake, they wanted to protect it: that's what the point was, and what their resolution was. And I believe that no matter how this plays out in FGO, we'll have the same resolution presented to us, because that's literally been the case with every Lostbelt and basically every other story in this game so far.

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I don't know why he said it's Crypter's purpose though, unless he's lying.

It could be that he's being a bit more abstract with it. Like not literally "the Crypters' purpose was to end this simulated world", but if Marisbilly's grand goal was to like create a better (or perfect, but that fits less well) world for the future mankind, Daybit could be saying this as like "I'll do what he made the Crypters for: to secure a better future for mankind" and he'll reveal that in a real sympathy-inducing moment after a fight or something.

[Formless Creature]

Well, it depends on how you look at it, I guess. Even if we (as Chaldea) can't literally step back outside into the "real world", what we're doing right now is literally fighting back against the "creator"

I can't believe FGO was a Gnostic story all along. Beast Yaldabaoth when?

[TresserT]

How is the complete destruction of the planet a better future for mankind, though? Daybit even goes as far as to call himself an enemy of Humanity. It's all very confusing.

I can't believe FGO was a Gnostic story all along. Beast Yaldabaoth when?

Inb4 Beast Qliphoth theory.

[Stoker]

I've only heard snippits of these theories before but this was a wild ride. If even half of this is real then I'm definitely rolling for Olga when she gets added.

[Formless Creature]

I'd say the following things are incredibly likely to be true at this point:
- Alien God is just Olga, no other influence
- Marisbury does or did something terrible to Olga in the timelines where he follows through with his plan
- Olga's own personal insecurities play a key role in the actions of the Alien God
In fact I would say that the logic surrounding Olga is probably the most foolproof part of the theory. Details involving Marisbury's plan, his actions, who the potential "last boss" is, the exact sequence of events surrounding the setup for Part 2 and David Bluebook, as well as how Olga became the AG specifically, may be more subject to change, but I'm convinced there is very little alternative explanation involving Olga right now, at least on the same level of scrutiny.

[fumei]

How is the complete destruction of the planet a better future for mankind, though? Daybit even goes as far as to call himself an enemy of Humanity. It's all very confusing.

If you assume FGO's world to be a simulated one akin to a Lostbelt, and that just like a Lostbelt if left alone it will encroach upon "reality" and the actual pan-human history, it's pretty easy to see how destroying this world provides a better future for the rest of (the real) mankind. Of course that means he's only an enemy to some of humanity but whatever.

[Comun]

I'd like to remind everyone that when discussing the ending of Part 2 at the end of 2018, Nasu brought up Danganronpa 3 and Undertale. If you think you're not getting hit by the meta ending, you'd better at least prepare for the scenario.

Danganronpa V3. Huge difference.

[Formless Creature]

Yeah, sadly it's very confusing for people who aren't familiar but Danganronpa 3 (the anime)'s ending was a huge fanservice fest, whereas Danganronpa V3 was the hugely divisive metanarrative commentary.
An ending like Danganronpa 3 (the anime) would be like if every Servant from every singularity and lostbelt showed up (including Musashi, whose justification for being alive is "I got better") and had a bunch of mini-fanservice moments and then at the end they all teamed up to allow everyone to live happily ever after, and then also they forgave Olga for all her sins and allowed her to live with them in the Throne. And also took the blame for creating the lostbelts for some reason. And then Guda becomes the director of Chaldeas, and Mash (who had presumably died earlier but is randomly alive again through some contrivance) becomes our perfect tradwife.

[Petrikow]

Danganronpa V3. Huge difference.

Uh yeah, didn't realize there were two of them. Anyway, the statement remains valid (as far as I understand).

Just so there's no confusion: Nasu mentioned V3; I'm the one who misquoted him.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Yeah, sadly it's very confusing for people who aren't familiar but Danganronpa 3 (the anime)'s ending was a huge fanservice fest, whereas Danganronpa V3 was the hugely divisive metanarrative commentary.
An ending like Danganronpa 3 (the anime) would be like if every Servant from every singularity and lostbelt showed up (including Musashi, whose justification for being alive is "I got better") and had a bunch of mini-fanservice moments and then at the end they all teamed up to allow everyone to live happily ever after, and then also they forgave Olga for all her sins and allowed her to live with them in the Throne. And also took the blame for creating the lostbelts for some reason. And then Guda becomes the director of Chaldeas, and Mash (who had presumably died earlier but is randomly alive again through some contrivance) becomes our perfect tradwife.

That is if it's all on Olga, which I doubt right now. It could be a crime by proxy where she's unknowingly commited the act under someone else's control. And if she's still to blame for it all, then it's doubly tragic considering how the person she was.

[Formless Creature]

That is if it's all on Olga, which I doubt right now. It could be a crime by proxy where she's unknowingly commited the act under someone else's control. And if she's still to blame for it all, then it's doubly tragic considering how the person she was.

Funnily enough, "crime by proxy"/"convinced to commit evil acts by someone else" is basically what happened to the Danganronpa 3 'villain' anyway, though in this case it would be presumably more compelling.

[pinetree]

though in this case it would be presumably more compelling.

He'd have to try very hard to be less compelling than V3.
Nasu already did the V3 ending in Hollow Ataraxia and, unlike Danganronpa, it was great.

[Formless Creature]

It's really a testament to how horrid Spike Chunsoft's naming sense is, in that in the very same thread where we discuss how people confuse 3 for V3, it happens anyway.

[pinetree]

Oh damn I did lmao

[Catastor]

Doesn't really matter which 3 of Danganronpa you're referring to when it concerns a terrible ending.

[sentence]

How do you think you would react if you learned that your entire existence was no more real than a game of The Sims and that your world's crisis is just the equivalent of a sadistic player deleting the pool ladder while you're swimming- the sort of thing which none of your actions can ever hope to stop for even a moment? You might still think your life is worth living, but what of the knowledge that your struggle to take back the world can never succeed and never will?

Well, I guess that would still be technically good storytelling. But whether it would be a good story depends on your ability to stomach a turn that dark, I suppose.

Zabiko already discovered this and decided to stop Twice despite it being his death (being erased by the Moon Cell).
Guda is even more righteous.

Also there is God who can turn fiction into reality this time, I honestly expect it be more like Extella, since Nasu already announced a Part 3.

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And it eventually ends by her being dragged into the void by a U-Olga Marie looking figure.

Pretty sure that is just a reference to Sakura + Dark Sakura. It looks exactly the same.

Earthimilate, a combination of "Earth" and "assimilate".

More like "Simulate".

But anyway, it seems the Daybit theory was wrong, unless he survives LB7 and continues.
On other hand, Kirei mentioned a "Earth Management Center" or something like that, which is probably a Solomon chapter to Part 2 and will happen in 3 to 11 months from LB7.

[InsertNameHere]

Well, it depends on how you look at it, I guess. Even if we (as Chaldea) can't literally step back outside into the "real world", what we're doing right now is literally fighting back against the "creator", so to speak. Our (Chaldea's) assumption right now is that UOM is the mastermind and main villain, and in fact, for all of part 2 we've been working up to fighting the Alien God who was established as the perpetrator of this whole scenario early on already. If you don't call that fighting back against our "creator", then I don't know. Sure, if it turns out that Marisbilly or someone is the real mastermind we can't literally fight back, but I don't think the point SO3 was trying to make was that the characters were only okay with their world being "fake" and them not being "real" because they got to beat up the guy who put them in that situation to begin with. The fact that they could fight whatsoever and like "prove their worth" and show that despite it all being fake, they wanted to protect it: that's what the point was, and what their resolution was. And I believe that no matter how this plays out in FGO, we'll have the same resolution presented to us, because that's literally been the case with every Lostbelt and basically every other story in this game so far.

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It could be that he's being a bit more abstract with it. Like not literally "the Crypters' purpose was to end this simulated world", but if Marisbilly's grand goal was to like create a better (or perfect, but that fits less well) world for the future mankind, Daybit could be saying this as like "I'll do what he made the Crypters for: to secure a better future for mankind" and he'll reveal that in a real sympathy-inducing moment after a fight or something.

But if the distinction between reality and simulation is so meaningless, why try to keep the latter from encroaching on the former? And my point was that in SO3 they could not only fight but win. Notwithstanding the fact that there was no reason why their simulation avoided deletion other than some magical power of will that was never explained beyond "just work with it".

On another note, we have more and more evidence piling up that whatever it was that revived the Crypters and spoke to them in the form of the white light, it wasn't U-Olga. Its speech pattern is entirely different and its dialog is never identified. The obvious questions now are these: what is this entity, and what is its motive?

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Also there is God who can turn fiction into reality this time, I honestly expect it be more like Extella, since Nasu already announced a Part 3

We don't even have a part 2 yet, Extella/Link was more of a Part 1.5.

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If you assume FGO's world to be a simulated one akin to a Lostbelt, and that just like a Lostbelt if left alone it will encroach upon "reality" and the actual pan-human history, it's pretty easy to see how destroying this world provides a better future for the rest of (the real) mankind. Of course that means he's only an enemy to some of humanity but whatever.

I'll put aside my assumption that FGO's world isn't simulated to ask this one thing: if there's no real difference between "reality" and "simulation", how could there even be a single pan-human history? Hell, why even distinguish between different kinds of "mankind" so long as they all fall under the broad category of "not needing to be pruned"? There would be absolutely no reason to even say that one "mankind" is real and the others aren't, because there would be functionally identical to one another.

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He'd have to try very hard to be less compelling than V3.
Nasu already did the V3 ending in Hollow Ataraxia and, unlike Danganronpa, it was great.

Which is also why I'd rather him not use the same plot twist twice.