Grand Unified Theory: CHALDEA

[TresserT]

My take is pretty much this:

CHALDEAS is a planet in and of itself (stated to be so by Daybit). As we know, planets have wills. The "Alien God" is the will of CHALDEAS.

Marisbury's plan is to world egg the entire universe into CHALDEAS, then hatch it and reach the Root in the process. The fact that this would destroy the universe, Earth aside, is a necessary sacrifice. (This is also why the stars have vanished. The cosmos is currently inside CHALDEAS)

Olga has the power to make simulations into reality, as well as to end them (see: MBBAAN). This was her purpose as designated by Marisbury.

The will of CHALDEAS doesn't want the universe to end. After getting its hands on an asset like Olga (by Olga being thrown into it by Lev), it summons her as a Servant, a protector of CHALDEAS, as well as the other 6 Apostles for the purpose of preventing Marisbury's plan from coming to fruition. Olga revives the 7 Crypters by using her simulation>reality ability. She freezes CHALDEAS so that it won't hatch. She makes the Lostbelts for the purpose of getting herself a body on Earth rather than being confined to CHALDEAS. Once she's on Earth, she wants to make a better future for humanity.

Chaldea tears up all of her plans, thus letting Marisbury's plan proceed without interference any longer.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Like the Grail War? To get the energy of seven galaxies being destroyed?

Doubtful, considering he devised the Sirius Light to clear away Singularities, which also works on Lostbelts, it's strongly implied that those are hindrances to him.

[GhostKutenaiabi]

I was going to include this in the theory but never found a good spot for it but... In Salem, Robin mentions that the fiction would collapse if something starts acting outside of the script. This is why they have to keep to their cover story so closely.

You know, this makes me wonder. What exactly happens in this situation if the fiction collapses? (If its already said somewhere, I apologize.)

[sentence]

Olga has the power to make simulations into reality, as well as to end them (see: MBBAAN). This was her purpose as designated by Marisbury.

The thing is that it seems she was never intended to exist or manifest as Alien God. So it can't be her purpose by Marisbury.

[TresserT]

The thing is that it seems she was never intended to exist or manifest as Alien God. So it can't be her purpose by Marisbury.

She was never intended to manifest as the Alien God, correct. But I'm pitching that her ability to manipulate simulations is something separate from her status as the Alien God. It's just something Olga-Marie can do.

Marisbury obviously had a use for her- in any timeline where CHALDEAS can't be completed he throws her away. In MBBAAN there are multiple simulated, hypothetical timelines- each time one ends, a young Olga-Marie appears and says that "the future can't be changed" before the timeline is destroyed. There have also been a bunch of hints that Olga was never really human to begin with, between not having a mother and having no stated age/birthday. Plus the weirdness of her having zero Master potential, zero Rayshift compatability, but being able to rayshift after her body is destroyed.

I don't think Olga received all her powers from CHALDEAS, I think CHALDEAS chose Olga as its protector because of her powers. Why she couldn't use them in life idk about though.

[Reign]

Like the Grail War? To get the energy of seven galaxies being destroyed?

My hands are clapping on their own.

[Formless Creature]

a young Olga-Marie appears and says that "the future can't be changed" before the timeline is destroyed.

Wait...

God damn it

[InsertNameHere]

Yeah. INH, you're assuming the human-like corpse (which was the Master of Traum) is the same being as the dead tree-person (the thing David found in the lab).

There's no reason to assumed Subject E and Specimen E are the same being. Yes, they were found in the same place, but we have no idea WHEN any of David's story happened. If he really is from inside Chaldeas, which is extremely likely, then he could have arrived there at any point in time before or after Chaldea did.

If he got their first, the mastermind or anyone else still alive from Chaldeas could have just moved things around. If he got their later, then it doesn't matter, because time shenanigans.

That's not what I was saying, I said that the human-like corpse was Bluebook.

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Like the Grail War? To get the energy of seven galaxies being destroyed?

They aren't even actual galaxies, they're merely connected to those galaxies.

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Maybe because Olga has prove to have the power to detect brainwaves at long distances? Then once she descended to the world it was necesary that there was an actual brainwave from her comrade, otherwise she would have started to question her background story.
The "Hate" Specimen E was emanating in Traum (and that caused Traum in the first place) probably got detected by Olga who then bought into the story of being an Alien God completely. No "Hate" brainwaves and she could have started to notice the holes in her backstory.

She could have just as easily have had the memory of detecting those brainwaves be implanted when she descended. Again, when you're dealing with an entity that can alter memories there's no need for events to correspond to reality at all- you just have to create the memory of it and the person they're implanted in will fall for it. And adding a bit that said "your comrade died just before you got here" would've bypassed that hole entirely.

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My take is pretty much this:

CHALDEAS is a planet in and of itself (stated to be so by Daybit). As we know, planets have wills. The "Alien God" is the will of CHALDEAS.

Marisbury's plan is to world egg the entire universe into CHALDEAS, then hatch it and reach the Root in the process. The fact that this would destroy the universe, Earth aside, is a necessary sacrifice. (This is also why the stars have vanished. The cosmos is currently inside CHALDEAS)

Olga has the power to make simulations into reality, as well as to end them (see: MBBAAN). This was her purpose as designated by Marisbury.

The will of CHALDEAS doesn't want the universe to end. After getting its hands on an asset like Olga (by Olga being thrown into it by Lev), it summons her as a Servant, a protector of CHALDEAS, as well as the other 6 Apostles for the purpose of preventing Marisbury's plan from coming to fruition. Olga revives the 7 Crypters by using her simulation>reality ability. She freezes CHALDEAS so that it won't hatch. She makes the Lostbelts for the purpose of getting herself a body on Earth rather than being confined to CHALDEAS. Once she's on Earth, she wants to make a better future for humanity.

Chaldea tears up all of her plans, thus letting Marisbury's plan proceed without interference any longer.

That doesn't explain why the Apostles were all acting to further Marisbury's plan, though. They're doing the exact opposite of what you said they should, and in light of what we know now it's clear that CHALDEAS itself (or at least Marisbury acting through it) is what revived them. And Daybit says that freezing CHALDEAS wasn't meant to disable it, it was to stop us from disabling it and that even while frozen it would've killed us if we didn't escape when we did. The "Alien God" position was nothing more than a sinecure whose real job was to ensure the other Apostles were doing what they had to do, they only acted otherwise in order to ensure that she didn't wise up to her real purpose.

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She was never intended to manifest as the Alien God, correct. But I'm pitching that her ability to manipulate simulations is something separate from her status as the Alien God. It's just something Olga-Marie can do.

Marisbury obviously had a use for her- in any timeline where CHALDEAS can't be completed he throws her away. In MBBAAN there are multiple simulated, hypothetical timelines- each time one ends, a young Olga-Marie appears and says that "the future can't be changed" before the timeline is destroyed. There have also been a bunch of hints that Olga was never really human to begin with, between not having a mother and having no stated age/birthday. Plus the weirdness of her having zero Master potential, zero Rayshift compatability, but being able to rayshift after her body is destroyed.

I don't think Olga received all her powers from CHALDEAS, I think CHALDEAS chose Olga as its protector because of her powers. Why she couldn't use them in life idk about though.

And with powers like that, why would Marisbury need CHALDEAS at all?

[TresserT]

That doesn't explain why the Apostles were all acting to further Marisbury's plan, though. They're doing the exact opposite of what you said they should, and in light of what we know now it's clear that CHALDEAS itself is what revived them. And Daybit says that freezing CHALDEAS wasn't meant to disable it, it was to stop us from disabling it. The "Alien God" position was nothing more than a sinecure whose real job was to ensure the other Apostles were doing what they had to do, they only acted otherwise in order to ensure that she didn't wise up to her real purpose.

What have the Apostles done to further Marisbury's plan? If we run with the assumption that Marisbury did not intend for Olga to manifest the way she did, the assumption that Olga herself is hindering Marisbury's plans, then the Apostles have done nothing to help him.

As Petrikow said, Daybit makes it clear that the ones helping Marisbury the most are Chaldea. Us destroying the Lostbelts is helping further Marisbury's goal. With that in mind, the only ones who helped were Sherlock, Moriarty, and Muramasa, who all were pretty explicitly betraying the Alien God in doing so. It's also relevant that Olga wanted Chaldea to destroy LB1-4, and that we were supposed to fall in Olympus.

Daybit also says nothing about us destroying CHALDEAS. Nothing even remotely like that. He says that they encased CHALDEAS in ice to protect it while also stopping its movement. In fact, he says the exact opposite- he blatantly says that Da Vinci, as a genius, was capable of figuring out what was going on. In that case CHALDEAS wouldn't have been destroyed, but it could have delayed his plans.

[Petrikow]

Funnily enough what Daybit suggests could have stopped the plan was Rayshifting. He also then confirmed something I spilled a lot of ink on, and that is how Rayshifting just entails going into CHALDEAS.

[Sath]

While it's still possible that they're agents of Marisbury, their very existence revolves around the Lostbelts. In other words, since the Lostbelts were likely the result of a fluke, the Apostles were likely not part of the original plan.

That doesn't seem very likely to me. Holmes was active from part 1 and his entire role was set out before he lobotomised himself.

Dantes if the next traitor was guiding/monitoring Fujimaru since London.

Every apostle has a clairvoyant purpose - as though Marisbury knew the future in precise detail. Likely because CHALDEAS simulated the future for him.

Douman - responsible for Musashi becoming a Servant and severing the gateway to chaos, preventing Crypters acting outside of the plan, prototyping discovering/creating Lostbelts.
Muramasa - specifically stated to be an apostle to slay Atlas/stop Kirachtaria
Holmes - stop Goetia and guide Chaldea to stopping Kirschtaria

Why would the apostles' jobs be to ensure the Lostbelts get screwed over if CHALDEAS' will is counter to Marisbury's? Olga is a pawn to the Priestess/CHALDEAS & Marisbury the same as the rest.

We have further evidence of this all the way back in LB prologue- the freezing of CHALDEAS is considered the death of the Animusphere dream, as per Rasputin. While CHALDEAS is currently protected by the freezing, it is not fulfilling the role Marisbury had in mind for it as long as it remains so. And again, further corroborated by the fact that we only become the Chaldean's enemy once all 7 Lostbelts are destroyed, and only then if we fulfill Marisbury's plans.

It was odd dialogue but I feel it's fully retconned by LB7. Kirei is taking instructions from the Alien World (CHALDEAS). Marisbury is said to be the guiding force behind CHALDEAS. Goetia even says CHALDEAS was frozen to prevent it being damaged.

The only iffy thing in recent dialogue is that CHALDEAS would have killed Chaldea had they remained at base - which runs counter to "Chaldea's job is to be the pawns of the Incineration & Lostbelt arcs." But otherwise everything suggests that Marisbury predicted all events.

It's even stated all the apostles except Olga were part of the original plan, and I think this idea that the voice that spoke to Kirschtaria was Olga is a red herring. That was probably CHALDEAS itself or its Priestess construct.

Olga didn't summon the apostles; Priestess is the one with command seals on her body. Olga is a fake Alien God; that doesn't mean the role couldn't have actually belonged to someone else who is incapable of physically manifesting & using her as a proxy.

My only problem with CHALDEAS/Marisbury being in conflict is that the apostles are supposed to serve it, but all of them have been set up to ensure the Lostbelts are eradicated. Even Olga doesn't care whether the Lostbelts endure, and happily considers nomming Olympus.

The Lostbelts being a last block against Marisbury is a good idea and could come true but what the hell is going on with the apostles, Olga included, if they're supposed to serve a CHALDEAS which wants to stop Marisbury? Like, Kirei actively helped us excise LB7. He didn't stop us bringing amnesiac Olga over to our side.

[sentence]

Funnily enough what Daybit suggests could have stopped the plan was Rayshifting. He also then confirmed something I spilled a lot of ink on, and that is how Rayshifting just entails going into CHALDEAS.

So the Singularities of Part 1 were inside of Chaldeas?
But then how did Goetia manage to create them?

[Reign]

hm

Priest: The Pseudo-Celestial Sphere Chaldeas...The miracle that leads to the Root. The miracle that the Animusphere family wished for and dreamed about for over two millennia...
Priest: Part of me wishes we didn't have to trample all over this dream, but such is life.
Priest: It is the job of adults to teach children the harsh truth of reality. Even the tsar fears this celestial sphere.
Priest: After all, changing the past via Rayshifting is the one threat we can't counter.
H：???: ...So this is Chaldeas. It looks just like an Easter egg...
H：???: So this is the device I must freeze, Father?
Priest: That's right. That is what the tsar wants. You must use your Noble Phantasm to defeat the traitors.
Priest: You must bury this magnificent crown jewel of humanity yourself, in a coffin of permafrost.

This is definitely odd, unless Rasputin was just lying to Anastasia about this like he was lying about working for Ivan, but it seems an odd thing to trick her about since she wouldn't know what it means anyway.

I don't want to jump to say retcon/Nasu forgot though. I assume it'll make sense as we learn more.

[Petrikow]

It could very well be a cover up so Anastasia doesn't catch on, but it does feel like one of the most unfair red Herrings in that case. Either that or things are complicated.

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Anyway, the only way to divine more information at this point is to peer into the waters of Moonlight Lostroom again. The statements about SHEBA in there are much more interesting now

[Blastedspider]

Grigorii was also there, wasn't he (I think he truly left at the end of LB1)? Perhaps Kotomine had to trick him also.

[GhostKutenaiabi]

Grigorii was also there, wasn't he (I think he truly left at the end of LB1)? Perhaps Kotomine had to trick him also.

Can a Pseudo-Servant fused to one's self be tricked that easily?

[pinetree]

Actually why the hell would Rasputin give Kirei control if the plan was to destroy the Lostbelts? Dude was on the side of Anastasia and Kadoc.

[Sath]

Actually why the hell would Rasputin give Kirei control if the plan was to destroy the Lostbelts? Dude was on the side of Anastasia and Kadoc.

Kirei is an experienced backstabber.

[Formless Creature]

Kirei could probably backstab himself if you gave him the chance.

[pinetree]