I had a whole PP like that to explain KnK to my non TM-versed friends.
I had a whole PP like that to explain KnK to my non TM-versed friends.
Originally Posted by Mcjon01
The image of Fumei drunkenly explain to his friends an anime movie series he forced them to watch always brings a smile to my face.
The "Ryougi family" and the "potato" should have their positions switched.
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
Now that I think about it, what exactly *is* U-Olga's body/vessel? Assuming her soul was used for CHALDEAS and became the Alien Priestess (likely the true Alien God, maybe to serve as an Archetype), her body died during Singularity F, and her mind somehow became Subject E (which I believe then became deified/Beastified), it's not really clear what she is physically.
Ain't a Fantasy Tree? In Olympus there was the whole deal that the Fantasy Tree was gonna become the new body from which the Alien God was gonna descent to Earth, which I don't think got proof to be false. So, if Olga's body/vessel is a Fantasy Tree, the real question is what exactly are the Fantasy Trees?
Right, the Fantasy Tree gave her a vessel (though I'm not clear on how exactly). I forgot. For a while I assumed that the vessel was Olga herself, and that's why she was disappointed, but I guess it makes more sense to view it in terms of Olga's mind just recreating her body within the Fantasy Tree, but because of Wodime, it wasn't able to access her full power. That would point to Olga's mind having the Beast VII designation.
Both the Lahmu and Demon Pillars were familiars of their Beasts, so either Olga's mind/Subject E is the genuine Beast VII (like I suspect), or she's an extension of the original. But I don't believe that to be the case. My speculation is that the Alien Priestess is the soul/brain of Chaldeas while U-Olga is entirely unrelated to that, born from the torture Subject E experienced in Chaldeas. An irregular/unpredicted god, who would be useful to Chaldeas' plans. I also suspect she might be a similar existence to Angra Mainyu, or at least Specimen E is.
We now know that U Olga Marie was a Servant and an Apostle, and that she was born in CHALDEAS. As with all Servants, this implies she lived a life with her own circumstances within CHALDEAS before being added to the Throne of Heroes or whatever CHALDEAS's equivalent is.
In other words, if I were to guess, Olga was Specimen E, eventually died, and got added to CHALDEAS's Throne equivalent. And because Olga was designed by Marisbury to essentially be a god, CHALDEAS summoned her to make use of her tremendous power.
Given what we know about Specimen E, the fact that she's a Beast could be completely coincidental and have nothing to do with Marisbury or CHALDEAS's goals, whether or not those two factions wind up being the same. Specimen E (Olga) is a Beast because she hates Humanity for torturing her but is still obligated to guide them to a better future, because that's what she was made for. The fact that she gets summoned as an Apostle is separate from that fact.
Btw, I made a lot of statements, but all that is just me guessing. Don't want to spread misinformation.
I agree with the last part, her being an Apostle was incidental. However, I don't think there's any necessity of her been summoned. It's not required to contract someone as a Servant. I also don't think Marisbury planned for her to be a god when the Alien Priestess exists.
Ah, no, I didn't mean it like that. Even if she isn't contracted with a human, being a Servant means she is someone who died, became a heroic spirit, and then was summoned after her death. If she was summoned, it'd probably be by the world (Earth or CHALDEAS) at that.
Just a small little correction here, she can't be a Beast if she hates Humanity. "Loving Humanity" is a necessary condition to become a Beast. Douman ultimately failed in Heian to become a Beast because he didn't had any form of love for Humanity. Of course, all the different forms of love the Beasts have are twisted in some way.
The relationship between Beasts and love for mankind is actually a bit complicated. If you know Japanese, I'd recommend watching this video, but if you don't I can summarize it simply as...
In order to BECOME a Beast, you have to love humanity, but all Beasts inherently have the opposite of love for mankind once they've been granted the Saint Graph. This is why Gilgamesh calls Goetia "a Beast who knows not love".
As I mentioned in one of these threads previously, Angra being called the Beast of Retribution were he to manifest and Moriarty describing Specimen E as having feelings of retribution and vengeance against mankind after his torture spells out to me what kind of Beast I think Olga would be, assuming she and Bluebook felt similarly. Only caveat is, Angra too was human and needed Sakura to manifest properly. Wouldn't be a stretch to assume it'd be the same case for Olga.
EDIT: Another parallel that comes to mind is Douman calling the Alien God's True Name a great curse upon the world. Assuming he's referring to Olga, but you never know.
Last edited by VTKajin; February 10th, 2023 at 01:08 AM.
Simultaneously possessing love and hatred for humanity has been unambiguously a thing with at least 3 Beasts (Tiamat, Kama, Koyanskaya) plus Angra. Olga being torn between her hatred towards humanity for torturing her and her love for humanity due to being made to guide them fits imo.
If it were Olga's mind that had the designation why did Douman describe it as a ritual to create a Beast vessel? Had he qualified or enhanced Ibuki as originally planned his homemade Fantasy Tree would also have produced a Beast.
Seems like an extension of CHALDEAS is more likely e.g. blackened Ushiwakamaru, although there's no direct basis for this reasoning yet bar Douman's knowledge of the ritual.
Her background as subject E and mixed feelings do sound very Beast qualifier/maker though.
Last edited by Sath; February 10th, 2023 at 02:23 AM.
Given the circumstances involved for Kiara becoming a Beast VS her other timeline selfs I presume aren't considered such, there probably is a lot of self-hatred there.
I realized this after I posted, but I think the Fantasy Tree ultimately provides an environment akin to the Greater Grail and a host like Sakura for Angra Mainyu. Something can qualify but becoming a Beast requires vast amounts of mana and a proper vessel to manifest in, it seems. The trees can provide exactly that, especially given their ability to anchor fantasies.
Anyway, there are some things that are sort of confirmed in this update.
1. Subject:E (被検体E, the one mentioned by Moriarty and identified with the weird brainy vein thing (I'm also following Rayshift's translation here)) is identified as "both alien and human", which causes TRISMEGISTUS to bug out. Sion concludes he's (and remember, this is the gender Moriarty very intentionally used for Subject:E) the representative of the exterminated humanity from CHALDEAS. The reason he was able to command so many Servants was because of this. Additionally, he died only recently by the time Chaldea found him, which matches up him being Bluebook, perhaps.
2. Chaldea theorize that CHALDEAS and Earth have been swapped out, and that's the reason for why Earth was suddenly bleached on the last of December 2017. Basically, in CHALDEAS, where Subject:E is from, humanity was wiped out, and Earth was bleached. This was then swapped with PHH. The corridor in Traum was a route into the Area 51 of CHALDEAS. Incidentally this is a bit contradictory, since it begs the question as to why that kind of route would be needed if the texture of CHALDEAS has already swapped out PHH. Perhaps because it was a Singularity? Is this why the Rayshifting was all red and weird? Or perhaps this is simply Chaldea coming to the wrong conclusion.
3. The Area 51 they found was obviously in the future. 2117. However, the equipment within it was decidedly unmodern. The exact cause of this is something Sion isn't able to pin down. But for whatever reason, it would appear that the scientists here could not upgrade their equipment. Sion later concludes that all technology developed between 2017 and 2117 doesn't work. The only thing that could operate on the Bleached Earth were things of a more primitive nature, like a combustion-engine based motorcycle, for example.
The last one is an odd conclusion in general, and it's something I never really thought about until it was pointed out. What kind of significance it has, or what it points towards actually escapes me at the moment.
If Earth and Chaldeas have to be very similar for the swap, I presume that having technology from 2117 on the 2017 Earth would interfere with the swapping. Basically an attempt to polish away the time discrepancy between the two.
You'd think there'd be more pressing differences between the two than that.
*shrug*
I don't have any other ideas beyond "Sion's theory is just wrong"
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