[FGO JP Main Chapter] Lostbelt 7: Nahui Mictlan ~ The One Who Rules the Planet

[Lily Emilio]

I wouldn't call Arcade 3D models nice. I've seen much better models with superior details and movements in phone games.

[Synaptic Star]

That's why I said supposably. The fact that models that aren't even that good can get so much positivity shows how much potential a 3D FGO would have.

[fumei]

Does anyone have the CG where Beni slaps the concept of death on ORT? Specifically, the black, red, and white one without the mountain background.

Do you mean this? https://static.atlasacademy.io/JP/Ba...2_1344_626.png

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If Kuku is Archetype ORT, which should mean she is ORT's brain, wouldn't this mean she should have been able to control ORT if Daybit hadn't made it go out of control?

That doesn't make much sense. The Archetype isn't the "brain" of a "body" in the sense that it's literally the organ sending signals to dictate how the rest of the body functions (as in, a human brain). This is obvious enough from the fact that Kuku is Archetype: ORT, meaning the "brain", but she's ORT's heart, not its cerebral organ.

In this chapter they put a lot of emphasis on the Archetype being a sort of "recorder", only there to "observe" and "inherit the planet's memories" and so on. The fact that Arc displays a lot more control and power in her state as A:E, I have to presume is because of her conflation with UO candidacy or something.

Da Vinci
It would be the brain of the planet...the memories of the planet that the world of magecraft refer to as the Archetype.
[...]
It's known as the "Brain of the Planet", and is a special type of Elemental. If the planet has a mind, it also stands to reason that it has a brain, right?
The one born from, and later set to inherit Earth's memories[line 3]the sights it cannot forget. The one constantly dreaming of the planet's surface.
The world of magecraft calls it the Archetype. The Elemental who waits ahead is this sort of incredible "Recorder".

That said, I think the profile part that explains her status as Archetype: ORT makes this even clearer. It's not that she is "the archetype of ORT", but rather that she is "Archetype + ORT".

She possesses the characteristics of both “a lifeform of the outer domain” and those of a “Cerebral Corpus of the Lands”.

ORT of course being the former and Archetype being the latter.

[AmADo VII]

I wouldn't call Arcade 3D models nice. I've seen much better models with superior details and movements in phone games.

is there a better 3D RPG game for phone other than hoyoverse games?

[Reign]

I wouldn't call Arcade 3D models nice. I've seen much better models with superior details and movements in phone games.

Gray's cape in arcade is tragic.

[rxrx]

The only thing I find valuable about the arcade ver. is the additional voiced lines

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Kuku is Malla + ORT like Arcueid's Gaia + CM I guess? Then she should've been named Archetype: Malla to be more technical imo.

[Dartz]

That doesn't make much sense. The Archetype isn't the "brain" of a "body" in the sense that it's literally the organ sending signals to dictate how the rest of the body functions (as in, a human brain). This is obvious enough from the fact that Kuku is Archetype: ORT, meaning the "brain", but she's ORT's heart, not its cerebral organ.

In this chapter they put a lot of emphasis on the Archetype being a sort of "recorder", only there to "observe" and "inherit the planet's memories" and so on. The fact that Arc displays a lot more control and power in her state as A:E, I have to presume is because of her conflation with UO candidacy or something.

What you're saying makes sense. But what about this though? It seems pretty clear to me that being Archetype is what gives her authority over the planet:

Bond 4 The soul of the planet—its archetype. Such is my position. Nevertheless, insofar that I am a Servant, my prerogative is limited.
At most, I may conjure a storm by my fingertips, or shake the earth with my toes. Trifling, is it not?

For what it's worth Kuku does have full access to the full territory where the fungi spread, which she uses to manifest her NP.

[Lily Emilio]

is there a better 3D RPG game for phone other than hoyoverse games?

If you talk about anime-ish artstyle then Hoyoverse is quite a high bar since they hand drawn a lot of the character movements and parts to avoid clipping and make the flow natural, something not many other companies willing to dedicate time towards. For a bit lower but still higher than Arcade just look at Shin Megami Tensei Dx2. The models of the demons look more polished and detailed than FGOAC models. ToF while still can't quite reach the same level as MHY still has quite decent models. LoL android version and another Dota ripoff from China (Honor of Kings, their top selling mobile game) all have decent models and the clothes flow more natural than FGOArcade.

Gray's cape in arcade is tragic.

Capes as well as big long sleeves of all character that have them. BB, Melt, Morgan and Tiamat sleeves...etc all feels like they are made out of cardboard instead of fabric.

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What you're saying makes sense. But what about this though? It seems pretty clear to me that being Archetype is what gives her authority over the planet

Well not quite, because Dino Arc functions literally just like what the new lore said - a Recorder. She knows everything recorded in history of the planet, but she has no power like Arc. Because the power part is given to Kuku due to Malla control of the LB. Think of this case as PHH Arcueid = the "memory" part (Dino Arc) + the "authority" (Kuku).

For what it's worth Kuku does have full access to the full territory where the fungi spread, which she uses to manifest her NP.

Because the planet in the LB doesn't mind sharing with aliens as long as they promote life, said Dino Arc. If Malla was invasive and set out to destroy the planet then none of the sharing would happen.

Effectively what fumei said from the chapter makes more sense if you recall WHY the Moon Cell is called Type-Moon. It is first and foremost an observer, and records everything on the planet. In this regard, its function is no diff from an Archetype. But after years and years of evolving, it managed to obtain powers to manage the planet and change its future base on its simulation. But the diff is, it has no mind of its own like Arcueid or Crimson Moon.

So it seems like Archetype as a concept alone is just a "recorder" of a planet's memories and below a Type. Archetypes can be created without the assistance of Crimson Moon, as seen in LB7 where Dino Arc exists, and she is weak as fuck. But to create one that can also have powers over the planets' systems you need something more than that. And in PHH the planet needed Type-Moon's help to do so, using the framework of an already existing Ultimate One + the concept of "recorder Elementals" (Archetypes), which then created an Archetype with much more power than normal - Arcueid. And the only reason she is yet to be officially called Type-Earth yet is because Altrouge exists.

[fumei]

What you're saying makes sense. But what about this though? It seems pretty clear to me that being Archetype is what gives her authority over the planet:


For what it's worth Kuku does have full access to the full territory where the fungi spread, which she uses to manifest her NP.

Dunno, chalk it up to the last quote I posted then, I guess.

[GDB]

I remember, before Arcade pissed people off with exclusives, every time Arcade released a new character, the fanbase would get googly eyed over how nice they supposably looked. So yeah, FGO 2 with 3d models would likely be stupidly popular even if everything else about it was shit.

They couldn't even do LB7 properly on time. I have zero faith they'd be able to do a full 3D game that wasn't worse than basically every other 3D game out there (including the horrid SAO games that even SAO fans that were willing to jump from game to game scoffed at) before 2030. And even then, it'd be equivalent to where other 3D games are now... but that far in the future.

[Dartz]

Well not quite, because Dino Arc functions literally just like what the new lore said - a Recorder. She knows everything recorded in history of the planet, but she has no power like Arc. Because the power part is given to Kuku due to Malla control of the LB. Think of this case as PHH Arcueid = the "memory" part (Dino Arc) + the "authority" (Kuku).

Because the planet in the LB doesn't mind sharing with aliens as long as they promote life, said Dino Arc. If Malla was invasive and set out to destroy the planet then none of the sharing would happen.

Effectively what fumei said from the chapter makes more sense if you recall WHY the Moon Cell is called Type-Moon. It is first and foremost an observer, and records everything on the planet. In this regard, its function is no diff from an Archetype. But after years and years of evolving, it managed to obtain powers to manage the planet and change its future base on its simulation. But the diff is, it has no mind of its own like Arcueid or Crimson Moon.

So it seems like Archetype as a concept alone is just a "recorder" of a planet's memories and below a Type. Archetypes can be created without the assistance of Crimson Moon, as seen in LB7 where Dino Arc exists, and she is weak as fuck. But to create one that can also have powers over the planets' systems you need something more than that. And in PHH the planet needed Type-Moon's help to do so, using the framework of an already existing Ultimate One + the concept of "recorder Elementals" (Archetypes), which then created an Archetype with much more power than normal - Arcueid. And the only reason she is yet to be officially called Type-Earth yet is because Altrouge exists.

Hmm, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter.

[Rafflesiac]

Do you mean this? https://static.atlasacademy.io/JP/Ba...2_1344_626.png

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That doesn't make much sense. The Archetype isn't the "brain" of a "body" in the sense that it's literally the organ sending signals to dictate how the rest of the body functions (as in, a human brain). This is obvious enough from the fact that Kuku is Archetype: ORT, meaning the "brain", but she's ORT's heart, not its cerebral organ.

In this chapter they put a lot of emphasis on the Archetype being a sort of "recorder", only there to "observe" and "inherit the planet's memories" and so on. The fact that Arc displays a lot more control and power in her state as A:E, I have to presume is because of her conflation with UO candidacy or something.

Da Vinci
It would be the brain of the planet...the memories of the planet that the world of magecraft refer to as the Archetype.
[...]
It's known as the "Brain of the Planet", and is a special type of Elemental. If the planet has a mind, it also stands to reason that it has a brain, right?
The one born from, and later set to inherit Earth's memories[line 3]the sights it cannot forget. The one constantly dreaming of the planet's surface.
The world of magecraft calls it the Archetype. The Elemental who waits ahead is this sort of incredible "Recorder".

That said, I think the profile part that explains her status as Archetype: ORT makes this even clearer. It's not that she is "the archetype of ORT", but rather that she is "Archetype + ORT".



ORT of course being the former and Archetype being the latter.

Perfect, thanks.

[idpersona]

As far as 3D mobage games go,Punishing Gray Raven is really good.It has really,really good action combat mechanics and very well made character models and animations.It got hobbled by lots of mishaps due to the developer's mistakes in how to handle a gacha game(it was Kuro's first game).

[linkhyrule5]

Daybit
It seems you're in need of a precise view capable of observing the universe in a way that mankind's current level of technology is incapable of doing so, am I correct?

Marisbury
Yes. I don't care for its contents, just the shape is enough. I'd like it to be as elaborate as possible.
But I don't need it to go outside the universe. 13.8 billion light-years will do, no more.
Your findings will be most helpful to me. I'd very much like you to cooperate with securing the Human Order.

[/collapse3]

Tepeu

It should be impossible for the galaxies inside of the trees to be real, but we cannot help but recognize them as galaxies.
There is a galaxy inside of the tree. No problem with that part. But what makes them serve as the anchor for a Lostbelt?
Despite the fact that ORT, the Fantasy Tree, had ceased activity, Mictlan still persisted.
The energy of the galaxies isn't actually being used, don't you think? That's purely something secondary---
Should the main premise be that they just have to hold a galaxy within? That there's some kind of meaning of there being a galaxy inside of them...?

These two quotes seem related. They definitely seem related.

Who named him ORT first and why?

Brishsan. Because things need names, I guess.

You know, I had a speculah/headcanon regarding the Beasts that might be relevant here...

... So like, the Beasts are the "Apoptosis of Man", right? They're to some extent supported by the Human Order just like any other Saint Graph, even though their purpose is to destroy it; that's what "apoptosis" means. You can argue that the Human Order doesn't really have a choice in the matter, or isn't really the sort of entity that make choices in that way, and I don't actually have a counterargument to that; I just have an argument that the Human Order might in fact willingly contribute that support even if it did have a choice.

It's like what Waver says in Case Files. When you name something, you Curse it; you bind it to your understanding of that name. Tiamat by default is this unknowable ineffably primordial alien generation ship/genesis ark with powers completely beyond our understanding that we can only label "Magic" (or at least Mystery), but by naming it "Beast II" we shove it into a box, a box where her ability to ignore attacks from her children is named "Nega-Genesis" and her ability to not die as long as her children are alive is labeled one of her "Divine Authorities" and all these things have well-defined effects. They're utterly broken effects, an overpowered and overwhelming strength that seems nearly impossible to defeat, but once they're named, at least we can begin to attempt to resist. Without that, the chances of success are just zero. And if the price for that is giving it Independent Manifestation, letting it call on her legend in the form of a "Noble Phantasm", and letting it run wild over the Human Order... well, so be it, she could mostly do that anyway.

So of course Brishisan gave ORT a name. Honestly I can't help but wonder if he intentionally took the risk of naming and Cursing ORT himself, as probably the 'hardest target' in the Mage's Association, but fortunately ORT didn't seem to care. (Unlike the petty Lords that back-Cursed Waver lmao.)

Oh also - When Eresh destroyed the spider part of ORT it was described as a waste product, something similar to keratin on a human, and we didn't even touch the main body yet. But later on when ORT regenerated the spider part, we had to destroy it again before firing the Rayproof. So I guess the spider part was kind of important after all? Maybe it just served as a strong armor for the main body - kind of like how our outer layer of skin, despite being dead cells, is our first layer of defense?

Yeah that's my thinking too. If you shave off a human's epidermis, even if you only target dead cells, they're reaaaally not going to be super happy with you, and they might even die of infection as a result. ORT isn't that vulnerable but there is still absolutely no rule that says that "removing a bunch of dead cells can't be an important sort of damage."

Daybit seems kinda surprised you didn't have your Master rights this whole time, especially since you could summon stuff, so Tezca has to explain that summoning was still possible partly thanks to the Underworld Borders and the established bond with Servants, but you never had the "right" to be a Master regardless. Even when he gave the Command Spells to Camazotz, he kept the Master rights for himself. In other words, you were in a constant state of being nerfed this whole time, which Daybit thinks makes a lot of sense in hindsight.

Speaking of which... Can I just say that it's kind of hilarious that we're now in the position of the utterly overwhelming boss fight, who spends the entire arc deeply nerfed just in order to be even remotely a fair fight?

[VTKajin]

I think it's clear the Fantasy Trees are Animusphere magecraft. They are strikingly similar to CHALDEAS, but different in key ways. They additionally work like Rhongobongos, for one, and they're presumably not copying Gaia's soul like CHALDEAS is. My guess is that they were AoG Animusphere magecraft that were able to reproduced thanks to CHALDEAS. Though who's to say which is superior.

That alone might provide a hint as to any secret purpose the trees might have had.

[Helios]

I've seen some theories around that state that the purpose of the Fantasy Trees was to draw energy from the galaxies contained in them via Substitution Magecraft. So basically the same thing as what's been done to Earth via CHALDEAS but on a different scale. Tepeu even notes that that shape is what's most important there before he gets interrupted. CHALDEAS and Earth are very similar in shape too but the minor differences they've had seemed to have no effect on the swap.

[Comun]

Yeah, I think whole galaxies would hate mankind if they became fuel for perpetual Human Order preservation.

[VTKajin]

precise view capable of observing the universe

the shape is enough

what makes them serve as the anchor for a Lostbelt

they just have to hold a galaxy within

Cosmos in the Lostbelt

What does it mean

So with limited information, I think the implication here is that simply having the shape of the cosmos/galaxy is what allows precise observation of said object and thereby anchors the Lostbelt texture. It's observation.

EDIT: Adding onto this

Artoria, who possesses the Holy Lance that exists as an anchor to the planet, is receiving divine protection from the Farthest Ends itself.

It's True Name is Fantasy Tree Spiral! Surrounding this planet, it's one of the many "Furthest Ends"

There seems to be a potential link between observing the shape and becoming the "furthest ends"

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I tried browsing 'supervoid' after Da Vinci mentioned it, then found what makes up the shape of universe. Things like cosmic void, supercluster, and galaxy filament are really interesting and might be related with whatever Marisbury's scheming about.