Fate/Samurai Remnant

[fumei]

He liked it because 1) he was predisposed to that kind of game and 2) precisely because he knows nothing. The base premise of battle royale with historical figures still remains a good premise. He can have fun with the game because he knows nothing and has no expectations. Like for example people who play ER as their first from game. Its great! I have played 3 from games before, i dont want to play ER, its more of the same shit along with things i dont like. If i have not played other games and were interested in ER i am certain i would like it a great deal.

But what he liked is nothing like original things, and its not just about difference between VN and an actual game. We dont do deep personal stories anymore, we dont actually try to do them anymore. We dont do servant guessing games anymore, and on occasion when we do them, its only for fun or to hype up / sell a character, its never in context of "figure this out or DIE HORRIBLY". Okay, Nasu cant write a new Fate VN for every spinoff, fair, but there are still things that have to be done in order for games to feel remotely as original games, and those things are not done anymore.

Implying that someone enjoyed it in large part because of not being acquainted with Fate stories hardly makes much sense, in my opinion, unless the implication is that they have also not experienced well-written stories in other franchises either. Because the points Petri and similar-minded people, and the points which even I can agree with even if I liked the game for the most part, isn't that it's somehow "trash as a Fate entry but good otherwise" like some sort of Breath of the Wild-equivalent. The points made are about bad pacing, about loose threads never being resolved, about underwritten characters, and about lack of tension due to story structure. None of these have anything to do with knowing or not knowing about Fate. Anyone who isn't just turning their brain off and casually breezing through the game should easily be able to spot most of these issues with the game.

The writing of FSR falters not in comparison to other Fate works, but in isolation. Whether someone finds other avenues of enjoyment with the game is another matter, but making a direct correlation between "is not a fate fan" or whatever to "enjoys the game" just doesn't work. Despite me not having any idea who this person in question is, I would wager they are more likely to be someone who maybe just doesn't read that deeply into a story or just doesn't care beyond surface presentation, which makes sense if so.

[Aozaki-desu]

Implying that someone enjoyed it in large part because of not being acquainted with Fate stories hardly makes much sense, in my opinion, unless the implication is that they have also not experienced well-written stories in other franchises either. Because the points Petri and similar-minded people, and the points which even I can agree with even if I liked the game for the most part, isn't that it's somehow "trash as a Fate entry but good otherwise" like some sort of Breath of the Wild-equivalent. The points made are about bad pacing, about loose threads never being resolved, about underwritten characters, and about lack of tension due to story structure. None of these have anything to do with knowing or not knowing about Fate. Anyone who isn't just turning their brain off and casually breezing through the game should easily be able to spot most of these issues with the game.

Sure he enjoyed the story on the surface level, but it also not like FSR is going to be treated as super-serious, story-heavy game by a person unfamiliar with the setting. Expectations of acitve denizens of BL and expectations of someone who has never interacted with the franchise are going to be drastically different for this game.
You know a story which suffers from poor writing and pacing? Persona 5, it starts strong and its all downhill from there. Did it suffer for it in any meaningful way?
Its still a story which rides TM worldbuilding and characters, and its not offensively terrible. Its going to do ok for most newcomers except for whose who are particular about stories in their games. The characters are going to do ok or make an amazing impression on someone who has never done Fate before. FSR is definitely play-once-and-forget kinda game, but its ok for that unless you are too deep in the rabbit hole and its too poor for you. For newcomers its not gonna be poor.

[Lily Emilio]

Despite me not having any idea who this person in question is, I would wager they are more likely to be someone who maybe just doesn't read that deeply into a story or just doesn't care beyond surface presentation, which makes sense if so.

He actually thought the story, characters, etc are awesome, all fleshed out and amazingly written. So complete opposite of the criticisms here. He only complained mostly about repetitive boring gameplay.

But then he's not the type who is super critical about the story in all of the games he played.

[Grand Le S'rouke]

No-so-bad-at-heart Illya does horrific things to Shirou should he make a bad decision as early as the first church visit.

The last time I read FSN was about 5 years ago and I may be confusing the details, but if my memory serves me correctly, then everything terrible that Illya did was allowing Hercules to kill Shirou 2-3 times. And once she turned him into a toy in one of the bad endings. After her defeat halfway through the first route, she never behaved badly again. Even on other routes. With the same success, we can say that even those very “positive” FSR characters were ready to kill Iori depending on the situation. We weren't shown this because this game doesn't have 40 extra bad endings. And no, I’m not saying that this makes them equal in development to the FSN characters, I’ll clarify once again - we were talking about presentation. Illya, for all her creepiness, never stooped to Zouken's level or the hatred and disgust that Shinji caused, and was basically an ally for most of the VN.

Rin was only good because her entire character is walking perfect tightrope between good person and cold blooded mage.

And what...? From the very beginning, Rin was presented as a good person. Literally the prologue began with playing for her. And in the same prologue, she saved a random schoolboy (consider her love interest) from death, spending a powerful magic amulet on it. And all her attempts to be a “cold-blooded magician” immediately looked like nothing more than an attempt through force to be something she is not. And again, I don’t remember her doing anything bad or unexpected for her character in the entire VN. Once she seemed to kill Shirou in the bad ending, where he became Medea's slave. But it was a mercy killing.

Modern TM is sanitized as hell. We dont get crazy shit like that anymore.

I'll say this. Previously, Nasuverse's works focused on local things, personal stories of broken people in a crazy world, where they were essentially just a small part of this world. Now they focus on global things and go epic. Previously, development went in depth, but now in breadth, to put it simply. But I'm not sure that made it worse. They are simply perceived differently. It's like, hey, TM still puts out some pretty crazy and violent stuff, it just feels different because of the presentation. For example, there is a lot of crazy shit in FGO, like all the lore and history of fairies in Lostbelt 6. Isn't this some crazy shit? And there is a lot of this, it’s just now spread out in a thinner layer over very vast stories. And local shit, like the behind-the-scenes nightmares of the Tohno family, is no longer given so much attention.

Like every other TM spinoff game. They are shallow and non-commital.

This statement may apply to FSR, but I would not agree that all modern TM works are like this.

He can have fun with the game because he knows nothing and has no expectations.

Well, that's what I was talking about. I find this to be a fairly manageable entry point for a newbie. Even if it is quite superficial, like TM's work, it is still a fairly good game in its niche with some kind of story, but not bad for the average player. Moreover, since FSR itself is quite superficial, if after completing it a beginner wants to get acquainted with other works, then they will only seem better to him, because in themselves they will be more interesting. It's quite good to start simple and move on to better things.

We dont do deep personal stories anymore

What do you mean by personal history in the context of TM's works? Because I think this is an overblown problem. We have enough of our own personal stories of individual characters within the framework of global plots.

We dont do servant guessing games anymore

To be fair, even in FSN already half of the Servants revealed their names almost in the first or second battle. Specifically, the guessing game was played there only with Saber's real name. The last time there seemed to be some kind of guessing game was only in Extra, if my memory serves me correctly.

It has to be a TM problem at this point, they just fucking cant into spinoffs.

I would say that they basically don't know how to make games other than VN. FGO as a mobile gacha game is literally the worst of all gacha games for many reasons. Their musou games are as monotonous as possible. And Extra once killed me with its gameplay so much that I was forced myself to play for the sake of the story for several months.

And the worst of it, if Nico or someone who knows shit of the series plays shitty spinoff first and actual VN second, they now have a notable chunk of it spoiled for no other reason than TM unable to make a good spinoff game without shoving in a bunch of shit it does not have to shove in.

I'm not sure I understand this. How can completing FSR spoil the experience of reading FSN or playing Extras? The game doesn’t spoil anything at all (except for Gilgamesh’s appearance, but that was never important) and won’t interfere with enjoying other stories. All that the player will receive in this case is knowledge of some terms, nothing more. And again, in my opinion, after FSR, the conditional FSN may be perceived better due to how much more interesting it is made.

[JetKinen]

I thought Fate Samurai Remnant was alright.
The prospects of fighting Arjuna 4 more times stopped any hopes of getting new endings tho.

[M@koto Kisaragi]

FSR was rated pretty high and the receptions were largely positive so it's not an big deal in the end unless you are an hardcore and long veteran Nasuverse fans who were tired as heck with the modern shennanigans, which i find okay because i also found some issues with the game that might irritated many of those said fans (Petri, Lily, and Aozaki for example)
And musou RPG isn't for everyone so it's understandable

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And honestly, we can at least agree that FSR did better compared to Starfield a.k.a another trash from Todd :trollface:

[TomPen94]

I'd say the fact I am tired of the modern shenanigans made me more open to this game since it harkens back to a type of HGW from times gone by.
I also stayed away from most of the marketing leading up to the game's release so when I actually started playing it the only "expectation" I had was "Musou with Musashi in it". And on that front, the game exceeded my expectations. Were they low? Yea, I guess. But I managed to be pleasantly surprised at least in some aspects.
I do understand when someone calls this "safe" tho. I would certainly describe the game like that. Doesn't rly do anything new or that hasn't been done way better elsewhere in TM.

[UnlimitedBladeWorks]

The feeling of having a retro HGW was enough to carry me through the first chapter but I think the characters and ideas weren't really developed enough to make it work.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Knowing the conception of this game, that rather than instigated by TM themselves, it's a third party's proposal from an influential producer who happens to be a fan, it's understandable how it turned out, that it's "safe". They would want an easily digestible plot while still retaining Fate's flavour. It might fall short to some veteran fans, but it also attracts newbies to the franchise.

[Aozaki-desu]

The last time I read FSN was about 5 years ago and I may be confusing the details, but if my memory serves me correctly, then everything terrible that Illya did was allowing Hercules to kill Shirou 2-3 times. And once she turned him into a toy in one of the bad endings. After her defeat halfway through the first route, she never behaved badly again. Even on other routes. With the same success, we can say that even those very “positive” FSR characters were ready to kill Iori depending on the situation. We weren't shown this because this game doesn't have 40 extra bad endings. And no, I’m not saying that this makes them equal in development to the FSN characters, I’ll clarify once again - we were talking about presentation. Illya, for all her creepiness, never stooped to Zouken's level or the hatred and disgust that Shinji caused, and was basically an ally for most of the VN.

Illya makes her impression very quickly, and she is a boss-to-beat for 1/6 of the longass VN. Just because she becomes an ally later due to linear nature of 3-route VN does not invalidate that.
There is nothing for player to fear in FSR since story is so shallow.

I'll say this. Previously, Nasuverse's works focused on local things, personal stories of broken people in a crazy world, where they were essentially just a small part of this world. Now they focus on global things and go epic. Previously, development went in depth, but now in breadth, to put it simply. But I'm not sure that made it worse. They are simply perceived differently. It's like, hey, TM still puts out some pretty crazy and violent stuff, it just feels different because of the presentation. For example, there is a lot of crazy shit in FGO, like all the lore and history of fairies in Lostbelt 6. Isn't this some crazy shit? And there is a lot of this, it’s just now spread out in a thinner layer over very vast stories. And local shit, like the behind-the-scenes nightmares of the Tohno family, is no longer given so much attention.
This statement may apply to FSR, but I would not agree that all modern TM works are like this.

FGO is its own thing and thus excused from this discussion. We're speaking of FSR/Extella mainly. them being unmemorable is their problem, regardless which thematic changes they have undergone. Extella had an excuse being Extra's so-called sequel, but FSR is entirely its own thing, and it fails entirely on its own. It had its chance, and it blew it. Its dissapointing above all, really.

Well, that's what I was talking about. I find this to be a fairly manageable entry point for a newbie. Even if it is quite superficial, like TM's work, it is still a fairly good game in its niche with some kind of story, but not bad for the average player. Moreover, since FSR itself is quite superficial, if after completing it a beginner wants to get acquainted with other works, then they will only seem better to him, because in themselves they will be more interesting. It's quite good to start simple and move on to better things.

I'm not sure I understand this. How can completing FSR spoil the experience of reading FSN or playing Extras? The game doesn’t spoil anything at all (except for Gilgamesh’s appearance, but that was never important) and won’t interfere with enjoying other stories. All that the player will receive in this case is knowledge of some terms, nothing more. And again, in my opinion, after FSR, the conditional FSN may be perceived better due to how much more interesting it is made.

By spoiling character identities from original VN. I'll put it in very simple terms.
Gilgamesh can be put in FSR without ever mentioning his identity. He can be a shopkeeper with some comedic moniker, he can do everything he does without the game saying his name once. Everyone who knows him knows, and if someone does not know him, they dont need to. That would be tasteful in regards to original VN.

What do you mean by personal history in the context of TM's works? Because I think this is an overblown problem. We have enough of our own personal stories of individual characters within the framework of global plots.
To be fair, even in FSN already half of the Servants revealed their names almost in the first or second battle. Specifically, the guessing game was played there only with Saber's real name. The last time there seemed to be some kind of guessing game was only in Extra, if my memory serves me correctly.

Is it so overblown? Does not seem like that to me seeing how we have walls of text here of people being dissapointed with the lackluster story. Story needs to get players to care, it can do so in variety of ways, and in fact its not even required for the story to be GOOD to achieve investment. If it fails, it fails. Its just that in TM case we had really, really strong stories that just make cheap spinoffs look even worse than they would otherwise look.
And like, sure, FSR is not a shitpile in a vacuum, but thats about it. Its just that it does not do particularly well at being its own thing (cuz its boring), being a good newbie entry (cuz it likes to spoil when it does not have to), or being good.

I would say that they basically don't know how to make games other than VN

They arent inhousing it though, they hire studios to do the games for them, and we're 3 games into lame spinoffs. A judgement can be passed.

[UnlimitedBladeWorks]

I'm not a Samrem fan but um, you know that FSR doesn't spoil Gilgamesh's identity right? Nobody in 17th century Japan knows who Gilgamesh is and they never say his name once.

[Paulie25]

Cu’s identity is also given to you almost immediately in SN. I’m not really interested in responding to everything else but saying it’s a bad beginner Fate entry because it spoils True Names is some really goofy complaining. Of your Servant cameos in this game they’re

Jeanne: Never was a mystery
Raikou: Never was a mystery
Musashi: Never was a mystery
Arjuna: Never was a mystery
Cu: His True Name is revealed basically the following day in the VN, he was always the Servant true name revealed first in the VN. Also has cameo’d in nearly everything.
Li: Never was a mystery in FGO, they wouldn’t immediately notice the other version is him when younger if they’re playing EXTRA for the first time either I imagine.
Circe: Even FGO itself has given up and trying to hide this one nowadays.
Gilgamesh: Besides his name not even being said, the big reveal with Gil is him being in SN at all not his true name. His true name is revealed like immediately after his first appearance.

And also Tamamo I guess by proxy due to Aria which is I guess fair enough as a spoiler. As a whole though saying SR is a bad starting game just because it spoils a couple True Names that aren’t even the biggest deals in their debuts is silly in my opinion.

[Comun]

Cu's True Name reveal is also the reveal that True Names are a thing at all.

[Paulie25]

Also I think the response to someone liking something you disliked being “Well maybe he just doesn’t look too deeply into things” is really fucking stupid. I really don’t mean to be rude but I think it’s common sense not to belittle people like that.

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Cu's True Name reveal is also the reveal that True Names are a thing at all.

Correct, it’s like Zhou on this game.

Edit; Actually Musashi’s the first example thinking about it, I forgot.

[Kelp24]

Plus I imagine FSR Gil sets up some really funny reactions if you go read/watch FSN next

[Rafflesiac]

There is no platonic explanation for Saber waking up in Iori's arms.

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Pig Iori is pure SOVL. Bless this game. Saber joins Samson-oniichan in teaching me how to Riposte. I don't think I'm no itemsing his memorial fight though, RIP.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

FSR gets a big fat bonus from me from being the only game where I can actually play as servants and have fun (that's not based in a shitty fucking digital world piece of shit garbage setting). I wish it was a Soulslike instead of musou but the standards for gameplay in this franchise were already astronomically low and it was fun enough for three playthroughs.

[Daemon]

Souls like wouldn't fit playing as a servant considering it's way too down to earth and slow, for playing as superhumans. I'd take a Devil May Cry clone instead.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

DMC is a power fantasy when Iori is supposed to feel weak against servants. Taking it more slowly against regular mobs and having Soulslike grand boss battles against servants would've been a fine formula.

[Daemon]

I was thinking of a fate game where you play as servants in general, forgot Iori exists and this is strictly about him and Remnant