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Thread: [EN] Lostbelt 6: Avalon le Fae: The Moment a Star is Born

  1. #621
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    There are some continuity errors in each part admittedly. While the overall story flows well, some finer details tend to contradict what previous part had established, and even from the same person. Like the ever-changing Aesc's companions by Da Vinci in my previous post.



  2. #622
    漆黒の翼 Jet-Black Wings Nyarly Alter's Avatar
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    Do we ever see Wryneck speak or do something by the way? I think the first Grimr says some stuff but from what i recall Wryneck was always missing and only spoken of.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyarly Alter View Post
    Do we ever see Wryneck speak or do something by the way? I think the first Grimr says some stuff but from what i recall Wryneck was always missing and only spoken of.
    Nope

  4. #624
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    5. No I don't think he quite got enough to satisfy me personally

    6. My issue with the latter is that Mash has a front row seat to all of that and somehow she acts like it never happened. She's presented as too dense to realize she was about to be raped despite him literally telling her what he was going to do, Barghest and her causally talk about how he was a womaniser and go "Oh of course the way he would to carry himself would help him get 61 wives!" which was just?????? It's like Nasu wants to act like the scene never happened in which case WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVEN WRITE IT THEN?????!!!!!
    6. Really? I never pegged him to be a rapist. No really im serious. While yes he was planning to sleep with Mash, its not like Mash was initially against it and its not like he ever pushed for it after getting his ass kicked. I think he was simply feeling entitled cause in his perspective and in their weird customs they ARE married and well, you know, nothing wrong with a husband wanting to consumate with their wife.

    I think the problem we should be looking at is him trying to sleep with what it basically a mental infant but to give him the benefit of the doubt he doesnt know that at that point of their meeting yet

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    Is it just me or does anything else think it was lazy that characters like Redra and Gareth werent given original designs? I get the logic of "hey its just faerie versions of their PHH selves" but if that was the case castoria could've just been given normal Arthuria's sprite except she's holding the staff instead of excalibur and be done with it

  5. #625
    不明 fumei's Avatar
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    I think calling Boggart a serial rapist and wondering why no one else talks about it is missing some points, at the very least. LB6 imitates human society the way it looked many hundred years ago (just ignoring the fucked up morals of fairies because that's too easy a way out), where this stuff was just commonplace. Boggart is a lord, a lord takes wives, and consumates the marriage on the wedding night. No one in the story talks about it or bats an eye because that's just how things are. It's only today that we're able to look back and truly go "well that wasn't ok" but that's moot because LB6's world is effectively historical fiction. You wouldn't read a story about some old king and wonder why no one talks about the way he consumates marriages. You might now think it's wrong how it plays out but wanting that applied to historical scenes as well is fairly revisionist, I would say.

    It's just like reverse_side said: the fact that he doesn't push the matter at the slightest struggle shows that he's doing this because it's a commonplace expectance of his position as lord, but not like he'll actually force it. Hell, that's arguably better than most historical people of the same position, since they would've likely had the woman killed following that.
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  6. #626
    The Plesioth Hip Check Of Life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    I think calling Boggart a serial rapist and wondering why no one else talks about it is missing some points, at the very least. LB6 imitates human society the way it looked many hundred years ago (just ignoring the fucked up morals of fairies because that's too easy a way out), where this stuff was just commonplace. Boggart is a lord, a lord takes wives, and consumates the marriage on the wedding night. No one in the story talks about it or bats an eye because that's just how things are. It's only today that we're able to look back and truly go "well that wasn't ok" but that's moot because LB6's world is effectively historical fiction. You wouldn't read a story about some old king and wonder why no one talks about the way he consumates marriages. You might now think it's wrong how it plays out but wanting that applied to historical scenes as well is fairly revisionist, I would say.

    It's just like reverse_side said: the fact that he doesn't push the matter at the slightest struggle shows that he's doing this because it's a commonplace expectance of his position as lord, but not like he'll actually force it. Hell, that's arguably better than most historical people of the same position, since they would've likely had the woman killed following that.
    While this is a take I agree with and believe judging Boggart with modern day standards is absurd (unless you want to judge the writer, which is a whole different ball game) I feel the need to point out that he himself said struggling wouldn't deter him and that he was in fact used to it; Mash didn't just struggle as a feeble human woman against the no.3 strongest Fang clan faery might, she literally put him through a wall and out three stories of height. He didn't force the issue because it was clear he would have a real fight on his hands if he did (and Mash became more useful as a symbol than a trophy wife shortly afterwards).
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  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverse_side98 View Post
    6. Really? I never pegged him to be a rapist. No really im serious. While yes he was planning to sleep with Mash, its not like Mash was initially against it and its not like he ever pushed for it after getting his ass kicked. I think he was simply feeling entitled cause in his perspective and in their weird customs they ARE married and well, you know, nothing wrong with a husband wanting to consumate with their wife.

    I think the problem we should be looking at is him trying to sleep with what it basically a mental infant but to give him the benefit of the doubt he doesnt know that at that point of their meeting yet

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is it just me or does anything else think it was lazy that characters like Redra and Gareth werent given original designs? I get the logic of "hey its just faerie versions of their PHH selves" but if that was the case castoria could've just been given normal Arthuria's sprite except she's holding the staff instead of excalibur and be done with it
    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    I think calling Boggart a serial rapist and wondering why no one else talks about it is missing some points, at the very least. LB6 imitates human society the way it looked many hundred years ago (just ignoring the fucked up morals of fairies because that's too easy a way out), where this stuff was just commonplace. Boggart is a lord, a lord takes wives, and consumates the marriage on the wedding night. No one in the story talks about it or bats an eye because that's just how things are. It's only today that we're able to look back and truly go "well that wasn't ok" but that's moot because LB6's world is effectively historical fiction. You wouldn't read a story about some old king and wonder why no one talks about the way he consumates marriages. You might now think it's wrong how it plays out but wanting that applied to historical scenes as well is fairly revisionist, I would say.

    It's just like reverse_side said: the fact that he doesn't push the matter at the slightest struggle shows that he's doing this because it's a commonplace expectance of his position as lord, but not like he'll actually force it. Hell, that's arguably better than most historical people of the same position, since they would've likely had the woman killed following that.
    The mental baby thing is part of the issue but my biggest gripe is Mash, the modern woman, the person who has the most reason to be put off by the things considered common place, is made comically oblivious both before and after she gets her memories back so that we don't have to address the situation further other than it being a joke. And as Deathhappens mentions he straight up says that he wouldn't stop no matter what complaints she had and this is very obviously not the first time he's doing something like this even if it's the first time his wife was able to fight back, the rules of the land doesn't stop it from being rape the same way Beryl legitimately not being able to show sincere affection any other way doesn't make him not a creep in my eyes

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    (unless you want to judge the writer, which is a whole different ball game)
    I am absolutely judging Nasu for putting that tacky ass "joke" into the story

  8. #628
    現地の蛸( ・ᯅ・ ) TetsuoS2's Avatar
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    Yeah it's pretty bad like the original plans the three goblins had for Mash.

    If it weren't for Mash being a massively good person and Beryl/Baobhan part of that story I don't think people would view him kindly.
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  9. #629
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    Like uuuuuuugggghhhhhhh, maybe it's because I'm a woman or maybe Mushoku tensei has just grinded my patience for this kind of thing to dust, I just legitimately don't see the point of these types of jokes, it's so off putting in such a personal manner

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    現地の蛸( ・ᯅ・ ) TetsuoS2's Avatar
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    I don't blame you, those don't really deserve to be gags or whatever.

    Like some people like the three goblins but I think I ever will, same for Bogart.

    If it was another way to make fae more hateable then they succeeded.
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  11. #631
    バーサーカー, か lolque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    The mental baby thing is part of the issue but my biggest gripe is Mash, the modern woman, the person who has the most reason to be put off by the things considered common place, is made comically oblivious both before and after she gets her memories back so that we don't have to address the situation further other than it being a joke. And as Deathhappens mentions he straight up says that he wouldn't stop no matter what complaints she had and this is very obviously not the first time he's doing something like this even if it's the first time his wife was able to fight back, the rules of the land doesn't stop it from being rape the same way Beryl legitimately not being able to show sincere affection any other way doesn't make him not a creep in my eyes

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    I am absolutely judging Nasu for putting that tacky ass "joke" into the story
    To be fair, Mash is also a particular being with a lot of issues of her own. She'd changed throughout the adventures and is not the girl who's stucked in the room with Beryl and needed the help of Romani anymore, but you know.

  12. #632
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    I was able to run with the goblins a bit more because the whole thing felt like it neatly tied into their character bit of feeling like they can only be reprehensible people (which also tied nicely with Winky denying the opportunity for growth by ratting Sheffield out).

    For Boggart I can work with most of what else they were doing so the joke feels like Nasu was feeling nostalgic for his early writing days

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolque View Post
    To be fair, Mash is also a particular being with a lot of issues of her own. She'd changed throughout the adventures and is not the girl who's stucked in the room with Beryl and needed the help of Romani anymore, but you know.
    Mash is immature in a lot of ways and awkward but while she's prone to getting carried she felt significantly more dumb for those bits. I almost thought that she was lying about how pushing Boggart away was an accident and she just thought he accidentally leaned on her too much since he was very blunt about what was about to happen, but latter scenes show that's obviously not the case

  13. #633
    現地の蛸( ・ᯅ・ ) TetsuoS2's Avatar
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    I lived in a place where you had to watch out for kidnappers so it just hits too close to home for me.
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  14. #634
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    Also very understandable

  15. #635
    バーサーカー, か lolque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    I was able to run with the goblins a bit more because the whole thing felt like it neatly tied into their character bit of feeling like they can only be reprehensible people (which also tied nicely with Winky denying the opportunity for growth by ratting Sheffield out).

    For Boggart I can work with most of what else they were doing so the joke feels like Nasu was feeling nostalgic for his early writing days

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    Mash is immature in a lot of ways and awkward but while she's prone to getting carried she felt significantly more dumb for those bits. I almost thought that she was lying about how pushing Boggart away was an accident and she just thought he accidentally leaned on her too much since he was very blunt about what was about to happen, but latter scenes show that's obviously not the case
    Yeah, I don't want to play devil's advocate here, much less with fairies (cannibalism, treacherous intent in every action, egocentrism, egoism, you know, examples of their model behavior), but I think what Nasu's trying to convey in those scenes is condescendence of Mash towards Boggart, like when someone much weaker than you is trying to do something ridiculous. Imagine a child trying to punch you, for example, even if this matter is more serious.

    But yeah, just a guess and ultimately, even if what I'm saying is correct, that wasn't the best way to show it.

  16. #636
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    While this is a take I agree with and believe judging Boggart with modern day standards is absurd (unless you want to judge the writer, which is a whole different ball game) I feel the need to point out that he himself said struggling wouldn't deter him and that he was in fact used to it; Mash didn't just struggle as a feeble human woman against the no.3 strongest Fang clan faery might, she literally put him through a wall and out three stories of height. He didn't force the issue because it was clear he would have a real fight on his hands if he did (and Mash became more useful as a symbol than a trophy wife shortly afterwards).
    Okay i might need to revisit that scene.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    The mental baby thing is part of the issue but my biggest gripe is Mash, the modern woman, the person who has the most reason to be put off by the things considered common place, is made comically oblivious both before and after she gets her memories back so that we don't have to address the situation further other than it being a joke. And as Deathhappens mentions he straight up says that he wouldn't stop no matter what complaints she had and this is very obviously not the first time he's doing something like this even if it's the first time his wife was able to fight back, the rules of the land doesn't stop it from being rape the same way Beryl legitimately not being able to show sincere affection any other way doesn't make him not a creep in my eyes

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    I am absolutely judging Nasu for putting that tacky ass "joke" into the story
    I'll check that scene again and reasses. But even if that the case i simply dont get that impression overall from boggart. He comes off more as arrogant to me. Maybe that scene was just one-scene "joke" for shits and giggles

  17. #637
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    It being a one off joke would still very bad...why didn't that get left on the cutting room floor so I can get more Aesc scenes Nasu ರ╭╮ರ

  18. #638
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kelp24's Avatar
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    Going by Mashu's reaction to Beryl's Woodwose form I'll guess Wryneck just looked like that. Black Woodwose.

  19. #639
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    It being a one off joke would still very bad...why didn't that get left on the cutting room floor so I can get more Aesc scenes Nasu ರ╭╮ರ
    He probably has a quota of stupid jokes per chapter

  20. #640
    On the Holy Night Noa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelp24 View Post
    Going by Mashu's reaction to Beryl's Woodwose form I'll guess Wryneck just looked like that. Black Woodwose.
    Looking at Aesc and Castoria I think it was even closer than that, that he just literally looked like Woodwose.

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