Who would win in a Lostbelt War?

[TresserT]

Is China's tree still hidden without Shi Huang's knowledge?

I guess yeah. His Tree being hidden had nothing to do with Chaldea so it would probably remain that way.

TresserT didn't mention anything about Koyan, so I'm assuming she's still in the play. So Beryl's gambit is still possible.

I mentally included Koyan in the Apostles even though she's actually not. Koyan shouldn't be in play either as there's no rhyme or reason as to who she'd wind up helping or fighting against.

I take this to mean no Lostbelt hopping.

Correct. LB Kings and their armies can't exit their storm wall, so it's impossible for them to attack other Lostbelts until the storm walls touch. LB6 is the exception due to its unique circumstances. Crypters should be able to move back and forth though, as I don't recall anything saying they can't in FGO (besides the difficulty of entering someone else's Lostbelt).

Wait...if the rules are that the tree must survive but not necessarily the crypter (seems like an oversight), and if we're assuming the crypters actually were intent on fighting each other with no ulterior motives, what's stopping Daybit from just using that as his command to awaken ORT and then just have ORT not destroy the planet, just the other Lostbelts as they make contact? Like, who's beating ORT (I guess that would be the other denizens of Mictlan but who knows how they react when it's not set on destroying the world)?

My bad, Crypter must survive as well. On that note, mutually assured destruction is not a win, it's a loss for both sides. ORT eating the planet is a loss for everyone, even Daybit in this case.

What's the win condition? Because if it's destroying all the other trees besides your own, I don't think anyone is destroying ORT. We could only do so because of Kuku, who in this scenario would be on the tree's side.

If the win condition is just beating the king and crypter though that's different.

Win condition is just like a Holy Grail War- death of the Crypter is a loss, destruction of the Tree or equivalent (and thus the Lostbelt as a whole) is also a loss. Hypothetically death of the LB King is not a loss per se, but I don't think many Lostbelts have a chance without their King. In 3 of them the King's death literally unleashes a world ending monster anyway, and another 2 have nothing going for them besides their King.

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Updated the rules to clarify the stuff I missed.

[Comun]

I guess yeah. His Tree being hidden had nothing to do with Chaldea so it would probably remain that way.

Ok, so changed my vote from Britain to China.

Conflict starts. Beryl remote detonates the Sirius Light on everyone who has it. Only Britain and China remain (maybe Mictlan too).

Melusine jets to China. Fails to find the tree and secure the win.

China waits for Britain (and Mictlan if ORT survived the Sirius Light) to collapse themselves on their natural timers. Eternal China ending.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Does Beryl even have control over SL post-Bleaching?

[Comun]

Why wouldn't he have?

[Formless Creature]

I feel like letting Beryl keep the SL detonator in this scenario makes things a little too easy.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Then he should've done it to Pepe and/or Daybit after the betrayal in Olympus, and he will be the victor.

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Kadoc as well.

[Noa]

Do we know if Beryl's detonator has a range limit?

[fumei]

I don't think we know much of anything about how the detonation works, but we have to assume it can be triggered at range because the point was to send crypters into singularities, and then detonate it to fix everything by blowing it up. That kinda necessitates that it can be triggered from a distance.

[Zork Knight]

Olympus

Nanomachines, son

[Comun]

Then he should've done it to Pepe and/or Daybit after the betrayal in Olympus, and he will be the victor.

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Kadoc as well.

Beryl didn't care about Daybit, wanted Kadoc to have a more interesting death, and couldn't explode Pepe in Britain because he was inside the blast range.

[TamamoRoute]

Looking at the map, the first bouts are going to be 1) a three-way battle between Russia, Scandinavia and Britain and 2)India vs China.

1) Scandinavia falls attacked from both sides. While I think they could hold their own against Russia, the battle wouldn't be quick enough to end before Britain arrives, and weakened by the previous battles the Norse Lostbelt would be the first to fall.

2) China doesn't have the firepower to take down God Arjuna + Ashwatthama, India wins.

Meanwhile, Kirschtaria and Daybit prepare their forces and put their plans into action, thanks to being far from the other Lostbelts.

Part 1.5 - Britain vs Russia
Supposing that Britain is the one that deals the final blow to Scandinavia, now they have their territory expanded. It is mostly sea, however, as Britain is the only landmass in their Lostbelt. Rhongomyniad bombing is the answer here. Ivan may tank one, but not two. Russia out.

Part 2 - Atlantis vs Britain
Atlantis makes contact with Britain. Machine Gods vs Fairy Knights (and Woodwose). Kirschtaria probably sensed the Rhongo-blast against Russia and prepared countermeasures. The battle is hard-fought, but ultimately full power Zeus ends it.

Meanwhile, India and Mesoamerica prepare. Best boyfriends Daybit and Pepe make an alliance.

Part 3 - Atlantis vs Mesoamerica
Another hard battle, but Daybit is not trying to win, but to stall. Using Tezcatlipoca's NP to summon temporary ORT and convincing the Olympus crew to reach the bottom of Mictlán, he tries to weaken their forces layer through layer. Once we get to the battle vs ORT there's two endings:

Bad Ending
ORT vs Zeus - Zeus loses. Chaos is summoned. I'll guess that a Dyson Sphere, which drains energy from a star, will probably win against what is pretty much a living star. Without a Musashi, it's over. Chaos transforms the Earth into resources for a new Starship Fleet.

Good Ending
ORT vs Zeus - Zeus wins, but with heavy casualties. The Indian Lostbelt, farther from the others until now, only growing in size and power (bigger size -> bigger population -> more faith for Godjuna) takes the chance and takes down Atlantis' Fantasy Tree. Only Mictlán and India remain. Daybit and the other inhabitants of Mictlán, knowing their world is doomed surrender without fighting. India wins, and without Douman fucking up Godjuna's psyche, the Earth is in decent hands. Daybit and Pepe become the happy couple they were always meant to be and live happily ever after.

FIN.

[K1rk]

Not sure why India would even be apart of the conversation against winning any of them. The existence and active knowledge of other Lostbelts kind of shits on the perfect god image that Arjuna has to maintain and relies on for his power.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

He still takes hold over Yuga cycle. Who's to say he can't just Mahapralaya them away after the borders touch?

[TresserT]

I don't think Morgan would even need to Rhongobongo Russia. Ivan is strong, but so is Melusine.

Some more food for thought- Zeus isn't the only one with a self destruct button. If Skadi dies then Surtr comes out (which is basically a death sentence for Godjuna and Kukulkhan at the very least) and if Morgan dies then Cernunnos and Vortigern immediately start pulling their shit. Not sure how that affects things and certainly wouldn't tip things in Scandanavia/Britain's favor, but might disarm some of their opponents.

Another thing I just remembered, Britain basically collapsed in on itself, didn't it? Even if Koyanskaya, the Apostles, and Chaldea hadn't interfered, Britain was still fucked just because of how rocky its foundation was to begin with.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I think a calamity unleashed when a Lostbelt is intact could be a reason for ceasefire, like Gilles incident in Fourth War. Every Crypters teaming up to take care of it before resuming the competition. Although without neutral third party, it's hard to see that happening.

Also, I think Britain will still hold as long as Morgan is alive, and kept Cerny at bay. Cerny is essentially a plug that blocks the drainage for Britain's collapse that is Insect of the Abyss. And Vortigern can't fulfill his role while it's still blocked.

[Comun]

I'm surprised Tresser just rolled along with the discussion without adding a new rule patch to ban Sirius Lights.

[K1rk]

He still takes hold over Yuga cycle. Who's to say he can't just Mahapralaya them away after the borders touch?

Mahapralaya is a product of his power, the power that relies on his status as a perfect god to maintain. Besides, it has a really long charge time. More than enough for let’s say, Qin to drop his meteor on him, or cut the middle man entirely and dump them on India’s tree since Qin’s Great Wall practically covers the planet.

Melusine would die horribly against Ivan. Even if you give her the benefit of the doubt with her Albion form, there’s no reason for her to follow Morgan. The calamities are basically afterthoughts because they’re loose cannons. Also, Cernunnos needs Baobhan Sith’s prayer to wake up, which wouldn’t be relevant here for obvious reasons. And no Cernunnos means no Vortigern.

LB6 honestly poses as one of the lesser threats under these OP conditions because they lose their range advantage and their major players are rogue.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Mahapralaya is a product of his power, the power that relies on his status as a perfect god to maintain. Besides, it has a really long charge time. More than enough for let’s say, Qin to drop his meteor on him, or cut the middle man entirely and dump them on India’s tree since Qin’s Great Wall practically covers the planet.

Melusine would die horribly against Ivan. Even if you give her the benefit of the doubt with her Albion form, there’s no reason for her to follow Morgan. The calamities are basically afterthoughts because they’re loose cannons. Also, Cernunnos needs Baobhan Sith’s prayer to wake up, which wouldn’t be relevant here for obvious reasons. And no Cernunnos means no Vortigern.

LB6 honestly poses as one of the lesser threats under these OP conditions because they lose their range advantage and their major players are rogue.

Altjuna is still a fusion of entire Hindu Pantheon. Sure, prayers have some effects, but Lostbelt Altjuna is still a living god with his own power. Even weakened, it still takes a demigod empowered by two top gods of Hindu Pantheon to defeat. And without any kind of Anti-Divine effect, non-divine beings would have a hard time to even harm him.

Britain doesn't just have Melusine, but also Barghest who can sap away magical energy and grow bigger. Ivan will have harder time to take them on together.

[K1rk]

Arjuna would’ve won that fight if it wasn’t for a couple simple acts of rebellion, which is the point. If those acts can have a tangible effect on his power to the point where he loses a fight that he should’ve won, then imagine how badly his perfect god image would be crushed when he and everyone else in his Lostbelt realizes there are other worlds that Arjuna cannot control. Worlds that have their own gods in them.

And Barghest is an afterthought. Not only has her mana sap never shown to be efficient on someone of Ivan’s level, she was beaten by like 3 KOTR.

[TresserT]

Why would the Fae Knights go rogue? Barghest inevitably does, but that's only when she goes berserk. Up until that point she's loyal to Morgan. Melusine has mixed loyalties between Aurora and Morgan, but it's never like she's been actively against Morgan. For the most part Melusine is cooperative with the queen, even doing stuff for her when it was necessary.

Cernunnos also doesn't need Baobhan to come back. That isn't what happened at all.