The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[pinetree]

It's just that the red streak on the black background is the best representation of Gae Bolg and the shards flying off Saber's destroyed armor are a nice finishing touch. I also like how quick it happens. Unlimited Codes is the second best representation, just because I really like how the lance has already pierced the enemy by itself and Cu has to go get it.

UFOtable's absurd tentacle laser is awful.

Meanwhile, on other games... Grand Order is basically just the red streak from the VN, which is good but not an improvement. Extra doesn't do anything different and is just ugly because the game is ugly. Extella and Link just go for the thrown version instead.

[Bobin]

Gae Bolg is the worst one out of FSN. It might be cool conceptually, but nothing will ever be able to fix how it was immediately undermined.

The display of Gae Bolg's ability was underwhelming yeah, but as one of the very first scenes at beginning of FSN it's also one meant to be a defining representation of what the real source of conflict would be in the upcoming battles of the story and to cement the absurdity of what kind of supernatural beings servants were. Saber overturning fate itself as the only solution to surviving a reality-shifting-heart-seeking-spear because of Heroic Spirits embody overcoming impossible odds leaves a memorable impression of its abilities, and although it's unrelated, got a really good showing later in HA by having its own limelight to shine like a lot of similar things that couldn't be worked into the original work.

Honestly I'm kinda the opposite on god hand, I feel like its partially the reason why herc is delegated to being illya's pet and 'how can he somewhat job?'

I'd owe that more on Herc relegating himself to being a mindless attack dog to keep Illya happy. As long as all Herc can do is roar and smash the specifics of it doesn't actually matter. The only thing I don't like about God hand itself is taking multiple lives. One kill = One life or bust

[pinetree]

The scene doesn't achieve that at all. It happens way to early and before Gae Bolg actually proves how impressive it is. Rather than conveying how amazing it is that Saber can overturn fate, it comes off as a poor excuse to deal with a power that was written to be way too strong, but that obviously won't ever work due to the needs of the narrative.

[Byegod]

Honestly god hand and the GoB criticism does bring up that a lot of old NPs have kinda aged badly due to later changes.

GoB as someone noted has been so heavily wanked its hard to believe gil can even lose even with the excuse given and god hand has some really weird rules added to it now or has been changed

[Bobin]

The scene doesn't achieve that at all. It happens way to early and before Gae Bolg actually proves how impressive it is. Rather than conveying how amazing it is that Saber can overturn fate, it comes off as a poor excuse to deal with a power that was written to be way too strong, but that obviously won't ever work due to the needs of the narrative.

Yeah. I just like the intent behind it rather than the execution.

[SpoonyViking]

Indeed. Those characters just didn't have enough screen time to properly set up our expectations for the scene to work properly. It also loses a lot of steam when considered within the novel as a whole because honestly, Nasu overuses the subversion of expectations.

[Deathhappens]

It's just that the red streak on the black background is the best representation of Gae Bolg and the shards flying off Saber's destroyed armor are a nice finishing touch. I also like how quick it happens. Unlimited Codes is the second best representation, just because I really like how the lance has already pierced the enemy by itself and Cu has to go get it.

UFOtable's absurd tentacle laser is awful.

Meanwhile, on other games... Grand Order is basically just the red streak from the VN, which is good but not an improvement. Extra doesn't do anything different and is just ugly because the game is ugly. Extella and Link just go for the thrown version instead.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who hated the tentacle laser. In fact, that's exactly how I described it when arguing with my friends about it.

- - - Updated - - -

And while we're criticising, I think God Hand is overall pretty meh. Greek Myth Hercules was mostly famed for his strength, not his invulnerability. The Twelve Labors were a penance he had to do on orders from his cousin king Eurystheas, not just heroic exploits. Sure, giving him twelve lives is a clever narrative idea when he's already the peak of power and fighting ability, but it's visually pretty boring.

[RoydGolden]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who hated the tentacle laser. In fact, that's exactly how I described it when arguing with my friends about it.

I don't mind ufo's Gae Bolg as a visual, fact I think it looks pretty cool, but it did lead to some weird confusion over the NP's range. I've heard people on this very forum say Gae Bolg's range is way greater than 2~4 meters now, when in reality that's purely a visual and the NP's effect still only activates if you're within the stated range.

And while we're criticising, I think God Hand is overall pretty meh. Greek Myth Hercules was mostly famed for his strength, not his invulnerability. The Twelve Labors were a penance he had to do on orders from his cousin king Eurystheas, not just heroic exploits. Sure, giving him twelve lives is a clever narrative idea when he's already the peak of power and fighting ability, but it's visually pretty boring.

Well, not every hero's NP has to be super flashy. That can kind of get into serial escalation that ultimately makes them stand out less. As for lore accuracy, there is the legend that Heracles was deified into an immortal god for conquering the Twelve Labors, which does fit with the "immortality" angle.

[fumei]

GoB as someone noted has been so heavily wanked its hard to believe gil can even lose even with the excuse given and god hand has some really weird rules added to it now or has been changed

What do you mean "the excuse given"? The whole point is that inside of UBW, Shirou is faster than Gil and Gil is literally too arrogant to even consider taking Shirou seriously until it's too late. Saying it's dumb that he lost because "now we know he has nukes and spaceships wtf" makes as much sense as saying "it shouldn't matter if ubw negates gob he can just use ea". That is to say, it's missing the entire point of why Gil lost in the first place.

[SteelBeowulf]

And while we're criticising, I think God Hand is overall pretty meh. Greek Myth Hercules was mostly famed for his strength, not his invulnerability. The Twelve Labors were a penance he had to do on orders from his cousin king Eurystheas, not just heroic exploits. Sure, giving him twelve lives is a clever narrative idea when he's already the peak of power and fighting ability, but it's visually pretty boring.

That's because an A rank in Strength is no longer amazing. FGO inflated quite a bit of servant parameters when some of them don't need it. Why is Ishtar B rank in STR?! Why is Ereshkigal A rank in STR?! Sad Emiya and his poor muscles.

[Huralok]

Yeah. I just like the intent behind it rather than the execution.

That’s understandable, sure. Personally, though, I’m with pinetree and SpoonyViking on Gae Bolg’s use in FSN. Since Cu doesn’t feature much in the rest of the work, Gae Bolg has an underwhelming showing and I’m left to wonder what the point was. (Didn’t Takeuchi take it a step further and say he found Cu’s overall role forgettable, by the way?)


Question: do people think Nasu should reconsider Gae Bolg’s design in the future? Perhaps it’d be better because, as pinetree indicated, it’s essentially written into a corner with the way it’s designed.

[pinetree]

What do you mean reconsider? It's not like he can go back and change it.
Besides, I doubt Lancer Cu is ever going to get another relevant enough role for it to matter.

[Zork Knight]

That's because an A rank in Strength is no longer amazing. FGO inflated quite a bit of servant parameters when some of them don't need it. Why is Ishtar B rank in STR?! Why is Ereshkigal A rank in STR?! Sad Emiya and his poor muscles.

Ishtar is also a goddess of war, lest you forget.

[Huralok]

What do you mean reconsider? It's not like he can go back and change it.
Besides, I doubt Lancer Cu is ever going to get another relevant enough role for it to matter.

What about Proto?

[SteelBeowulf]

Ishtar is also a goddess of war, lest you forget.

fine, but I point stands, some of the servants being A rank in a parameter sometimes just degrades the legend of other heroes, especially when the other heroes' legend has much more powerful feats. Sure Lu Bu is the most powerful man in China for a time and Beowulf killed a dragon and monsters with his bare hands but how does that compare to Hercules when he held the heaven in place of Atlas? What about Caligula? What inhuman feats does he have to have A+ rank in STR? What about Spartacus?

[Zork Knight]

fine, but I point stands, some of the servants being A rank in a parameter sometimes just degrades the legend of other heroes, especially when the other heroes' legend has much more powerful feats. Sure Lu Bu is the most powerful man in China for a time and Beowulf killed a dragon and monsters with his bare hands but how does that compare to Hercules when he held the heaven in place of Atlas? What about Caligula? What inhuman feats does he have to have A+ rank in STR? What about Spartacus?

Servant Containers cannot reproduce the greater heroes in their full glory, while giving a boost to the lesser heroes so they stand a chance.
Caligula is really odd tho, I'm guessing it's all Mad Enhancement (and maybe Imperial Privilege) backing him... I mean, mechanically all his three active skills serve to boost damage, afterall.

And, well, only A++ STR/END is explicitly said to be inhuman, and thus reserved for the likes of Asterios or Gorgon.

[pinetree]

What about Proto?

Doesn't his Master prevent him from using the real one?

[Byegod]

Honestly I feel like the servant container thing is only kinda dwelted upon now, like have we ever had a decent comparison outside of 'they can do more beamu while alive' and 'they would have all there weapons', Like we still take out giga god beings who are flat out gods with some compatability.
Feels like like the strength gap was overstated?

Actually doesnt surtr just flat out break that rule, he was able to fit in a container while alive.

[AAM1232]

Siegfried has a dragon reactor that get's nerfed when he's a Servant so yeah? And that's ignoring the top tier Indian heroes as well who had far more than what they show as Servants (in Ash's case he didn't even get the Chakra while alive). Besides, this only really goes for the older heroes, as newer ones get buffed like Shakespeare, or Babbage's RM.

Don't see what bringing up Surtr does.

[You]

So whats everyones favorite NP? or NPs

Can be for any reason honestly, aesthetic, affect, history ect.

Kazikeli is up there, LoD is as well, balmung i like aesthetically though it being another beam sword is eh.

You can also say what NPs you hate as well

極死·七夜