Only due to institutional inertia—one can imagine a CIA that has diversified, and is no less effective at protecting the interests of American and global capital.
And of course capitalism was the main culprit. But like you said, Japanese religion is fundamentally different than what “we” see as “religion”—which makes the nation seem less religious to us, and is partly due to shinbutsu-bunri
That is somewhat true, and if it happens, the hierarchy will simply reorient itself to exploit new divisions and a new underclass. However, so long as the current stratifications, class, race, gender, and sexuality-based, continue to enable the accumulation of capital by the wealthy and powerful, they will be used to do so. Anti-black racism, for example, has proven incredibly resilient, even in cases where there is no overt individual racism, like when the NFL systemically compensates black retired athletes less for concussions. They may not be overtly racist, but old racist ideas about pain tolerance let them cheap out on settlement money.Originally Posted by Sssgth
Last edited by SirGauoftheSquareTable; September 25th, 2021 at 02:40 PM.
The near-instant recuperation of BLM with the interests of capital, as well as the rise of explicitly self-interested social justice grifting, makes me think that the stratification is going to become more “equal” on every ground except class. The plebs hate each other for their differences alone enough now that a difference in privileges is no longer necessary to divide them, and making every identity visible in the elite will give them a modicum of faith in the system
That might happen, but class has never been divorced from other religious, ethnic, or other lines, and even if it initially is not, there will exist cultural fault lines that originate along class lines. In fact, that's already somewhat the case in our world. Moreover, even if rainbow capitalism has coopted the message of Black Lives Matter, when it comes to their bottom line, they will keep exploiting marginalized groups, such as poor black people, as long as they can get away with it and don't actually have any interest in dismantling the existing racial hierarchy unless there's a much higher reward than risk. In the meantime, they can just posture at progressive messaging while not having to do any of the actual work that might undermine their power and profits.
In my opinion, the “reward” is higher efficiency, so long as the work of explaining poverty away as an individual moral failing is done. And that work is being done—see the discourse about not giving money to “privileged” homeless people of various sorts—“how do you have all that privilege and STILL end up on the streets!?”
Of course the work of trying to explain poverty as a moral failing is still being done, and I agree that many large corporations have found it advantageous to their bottom line to try and court progressives with varying degrees of action. However, I think what that action will ultimately amount to is greater individual marginalized group representation in the upper echelons of society, but a working class that looks mostly the same. Equality just isn't possible under capitalism, and I think it's heartening that more people are realizing that.
Yeah, the “diverse faces in high places” is happening while the poor stay poor—that’s the “woke grifting” I was talking about. Capitalism is having a crisis of legitimacy, but there’s a grim chance that due to the automation of capital, its destruction may be impossible with human hands. Stock trading is done almost entirely by artificial intelligence now, and algorithms are now almost inscrutable to their creators.
The idea of capitalism as a cargo cult, or a Lovecraftian god (insert MHXX joke here) has been around for a while. It got its start with Mises and the Mont Pelerin Society trying to halt the development of econometrics, comparing the free market to a god and any attempts to harness and control it to blasphemy. Today, we have Land and his right-wing accelerationists hailing the coming of Roko’s Basilisk as the telos of capitalism, and unironically treating “who will be eaten first?” as the result and reward of supporting its descent.
If you get enough paperclip-maximizing AIs, the wealthy can put capitalism on the top shelf, so that once they disappear, nobody else will be able to ever stop it. That seems like the real end goal of computerizing everything, once the apocalypticism is out of the way.
Things are bleak, really. Better to just play mobage and ignore the inevitable downfall of society
I feel a more hopeful possibility would be that automation of labor leads to support for universal basic income since even wealthier and high-status people might eventually start having their jobs made redundant. Also I'm pretty sure Land-style "turn the world into computronium for the god of capitalism" philosophy is extremely fringe and if you're generalizing to any kind of broader movement from that you're guilty of paying too much attention to what a few weirdos on the internet think. (Yeah, weirdos may eventually have their ideas reach the mainstream but... most don't, for obvious reasons).
Back to discussing FGO plz. Go to twitter if you want to talk about this very interesting stuff.
It’s definitely more hopeful, but I don’t see it as feasible. Once the elite doesn’t need the masses in order to survive, the masses become nothing but a threat to them. They can’t kill us all off at once, sure, but rewarding those who help them do the job could do the trick. Gladiatorial games, suicide booths, The Wanting Seed-style fake wars—the awful possibilities are endless. Turning the world into computronium may not be a real aim, but plenty of Silicon Valley billionaires have plans and bunkers for after “collapse” and are trying to figure out how to make explosive collars for their bodyguards. If the end of the world is no threat to them, who’s to say they won’t cause it themselves?
(We need more meaningful JP story content soon, this thread is no place for political discussion)
Roko's Basilisk is a thought experiment for idiots whose whole basis is incoherent nonsense, but I agree about capitalism being more and more depersonalized and divorced from our reality. However, I don't agree that capitalism has ever been particularly personal. Sure, the wealthy operate the systems, but the systems themselves are fundamentally depersonalized, even without AI or automation, and even if we executed all of the rich, new rich people would just come and replace them.
Also, doomerism is counterproductive to our own survival, and we gotta keep fighting, even as we live in a shitty capitalist system and are fed more and more mobage. I mean, I'll play, and I do think that some of them, or at least Fire Emblem Heroes, have some surprisingly anarchist elements in their stories and setup, but still, we gotta live, we gotta fight.
Of course, UBI is great, and I would support any unconditional implementation, BUT I think the idea that automation under a capitalist system would lead to wealthy people feeling threatened by bots to institute UBI is quite optimistic and misplaced. They'd institute UBI for the same reason FDR instituted the New Deal, to prevent a labor uprising and to save capitalism. Peoples' lives would be materially better with the money, but the systems keeping them poor would stay in place, and it would probably get gutted over time, just like most benefits in the United States.
Also, I think this has been a great chat, but yeah, let's get back to FGO.
Kama is cute and I am happy.
Speaking of her, is she only a loli in one ascension, or what?
Yes, she's got the typical Kama progression; child, teen, adult.
We know Da Vinchi will probably die in LB7, probably in a way that echoes Roman's death, but who else do you think will bite it in the Chaldea crew? My money's on Kadoc for sure, Ritsuka and Mash as strong possibilities, though considering the Nasu's narration of Mash's sections in LB6, it seems that there's a lot more for her to do.
Fujimaru won't die unless they really plan to shut down the servers soon after LB7 launches, which I absolutely cannot see them doing.
Fair point. I guess I was just being hopeful that FGO might end, even if a Tsukihime mobage would take its place. As for Mash, she's not safe, and I still bet Kadoc is going to die. Daybit, I'm not sure, though if he turns out to be a double agent against Marisbury and the Foreign God all along, maybe he will die helping us.
Kadoc's going to be the only Crypter to survive, echoing the Achilles/Cu metaphor: you can be brilliant but you'll burn out quickly and live a short life.
Of course, something like that would do wonders for his inferiority complex, obviously. Also, does anyone think anyone on the support staff or Goredorf might bite it?
There's so little known about Daybit, other than from Da Vinci's exposition and what was seen in LB4. At least Beryl's character was explored further during Olympus, not to mention his obsession with Mash, giving more incentives for his role in LB6. Daybit didn't even appear in LB6, other than references from Pepe. Unless they're taking time exploring him more in other chapters like Koyan's arc, I worry that LB7 might be largely used to expand his background. The guy's still too mysterious for people to expect what will come in LB7.
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Then again, there's still a possible Final Solomon-esque chapter against Alien God, and maybe even LB7.5, so there's a chance he might survive his LB and tagging along with Chaldea to accompany Kadoc until CitL climax.
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