Servant/Project Idea Thread, "The Womb"

[Cursed by Fortuna]

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[pinetree]

You're mixing things up there. Daji is the first one in the legend, Tamamo is the last name she used. It's when she died for real.

And her tails are a result of CCC, I agree that they might represent different evil fox stories, but they didn't actually live it out.

[Comun]

Due to heavy syncretism being removed from its meta perspective, Daji and Tamamo no Mae in TM are presented as two human identities of the same monster fox. Daji was the name she used in 1100BC, then Tamamo was the name she used in 1100AD.

And the Heian chapter of FGO shows her as Fujiwara no Takako, daughter of Fujiwara no Michikane in 1008AD, confirming to audience that she took other human identities in the 22 century gap between her Daji incarnation and her Tamamo incarnation.

[Cursed by Fortuna]

00

[NINE-lives]

Dionysus was originally a god of death and rebirth, got killed and reborn multiple times and was the main deity of orphism.

“ The central focus of Orphism is the suffering and death of the god Dionysus at the hands of the Titans, which forms the basis of Orphism's central myth. According to this myth, the infant Dionysus is killed, torn apart, and consumed by the Titans. In retribution, Zeus strikes the Titans with a thunderbolt, turning them to ash. From these ashes, humanity is born. In Orphic belief, this myth describes humanity as having a dual nature: body (Ancient Greek: σῶμα, romanized: sôma), inherited from the Titans, and a divine spark or soul (Ancient Greek: ψυχή, romanized: psukhḗ), inherited from Dionysus.[5] In order to achieve salvation from the Titanic, material existence, one had to be initiated into the Dionysian mysteries and undergo teletē, a ritual purification and reliving of the suffering and death of the god.[6] Orphics believed that they would, after death, spend eternity alongside Orpheus and other heroes. The uninitiated (Ancient Greek: ἀμύητος, romanized: amúētos), they believed, would be reincarnated indefinitely.[7]”

This sounds suspiciously similar to Buddhism/Hinduism with the focus of escape from the cycle of reincarnation. Dionysus led an invasion of India (there’s even a story of a village on the Indus River founded by dionysus).

What if Dionysus-zagreus is actually an embodiment of the cycle of reincarnation. His original divine authority allowed to place being inside and outside the cycle of reincarnation and reincarnate beings on the spot. This is the reason he was able to wage war in India without being instantly brahmastra’d.

[34]

I've made a couple of Zagreus Dionysius sheets in the past.
Zagreus (Lily)
Zagreus-Dionysius

[NINE-lives]

Another idea: what if the reason dionysus is so crazy is because he knows souls reincarnate when they die and he just doesn’t care about people dying because they will reincarnate anyway.

[34]

Isn't the whole point of Reincarnation that the soul can't die?

...yeah I shouldn't have bothered.

[NINE-lives]

Just a misspelling.

[Kabalisto Koga]

Dionysus was originally a god of death and rebirth, got killed and reborn multiple times and was the main deity of orphism.

“ The central focus of Orphism is the suffering and death of the god Dionysus at the hands of the Titans, which forms the basis of Orphism's central myth. According to this myth, the infant Dionysus is killed, torn apart, and consumed by the Titans. In retribution, Zeus strikes the Titans with a thunderbolt, turning them to ash. From these ashes, humanity is born. In Orphic belief, this myth describes humanity as having a dual nature: body (Ancient Greek: σῶμα, romanized: sôma), inherited from the Titans, and a divine spark or soul (Ancient Greek: ψυχή, romanized: psukhḗ), inherited from Dionysus.[5] In order to achieve salvation from the Titanic, material existence, one had to be initiated into the Dionysian mysteries and undergo teletē, a ritual purification and reliving of the suffering and death of the god.[6] Orphics believed that they would, after death, spend eternity alongside Orpheus and other heroes. The uninitiated (Ancient Greek: ἀμύητος, romanized: amúētos), they believed, would be reincarnated indefinitely.[7]”

This sounds suspiciously similar to Buddhism/Hinduism with the focus of escape from the cycle of reincarnation. Dionysus led an invasion of India (there’s even a story of a village on the Indus River founded by dionysus).

What if Dionysus-zagreus is actually an embodiment of the cycle of reincarnation. His original divine authority allowed to place being inside and outside the cycle of reincarnation and reincarnate beings on the spot. This is the reason he was able to wage war in India without being instantly brahmastra’d.

Another idea: what if the reason dionysus is so crazy is because he knows souls die when they reincarnate and he just doesn’t care about people dying because they will reincarnate anyway.

i think rather that Dionyssuss madness is just the "living without restraint " like the manners of the enforced conducts of edicete like how one has to behave as Roman or Greek citizen and that Dionyssus represent rather the free wild like urges that the sophisiticated Citizen attributed as madness in general . Also keep in mind that greek philosophy and asiatic philosophy influenced each other .

[NINE-lives]

What if Dionysus invasion of India influenced the founding of Buddhism and Hinduism with Greek and Indian philosophy influencing each other.

[Baron Magnus]

i think rather that Dionyssuss madness is just the "living without restraint " like the manners of the enforced conducts of edicete like how one has to behave as Roman or Greek citizen and that Dionyssus represent rather the free wild like urges that the sophisiticated Citizen attributed as madness in general . Also keep in mind that greek philosophy and asiatic philosophy influenced each other .

I mean don't forget the story where he literally turned a bunch of sailors into snakes and started warping reality by turning wooden railings into ivy and turning the sails into dolphins. There's that whole incident.

[NINE-lives]

Hmm. Maybe some illusion magecraft based on that incident.

[Anju Addams]

or in other cases Minamoto no Raikou or Tamamo where they treat Indian and Chinese pantheons as the same as Shinto myth (when they aren't).

But they are. This is a real thing that Nasu is pulling from. Japanese Syncretism is a huge thing that has been going on for centuries.
Amaterasu is Vairocana who is also Dakini who is Inari etc.

[NINE-lives]

Syncretism and it’s consequence have been a disaster for beast lair sheet makers.

[Anju Addams]

Syncretism and it’s consequence have been a disaster for beast lair sheet makers.

I am of the opposite opinion. Syncretism is extremely fascinating. I mean, this even happens in Western religions.
Aphrodite is Venus who is Ishtar who is Astarte who is Inanna.

God Himself is based on a bunch of syncretism too.

[NINE-lives]

But if you take it too far then it becomes the original story becomes covered in too many layers of syncretism. It’s probably best to keep the syncretism at one or two layer of separation. Daji is tamamo who is amaterasu (who is a pretty big deal) but is it really necessary to make her the primordial Buddha or dakini?

[Anju Addams]

But if you take it too far then it becomes the original story becomes covered in too many layers of syncretism. It’s probably best to keep the syncretism at one layer of separation. Daji is tamamo who is amaterasu (who is a pretty big deal) but is it really necessary to make her the primordial Buddha or dakini?

I can't claim to know why Nasu is doing it but at most I can speculate it's his unique attempt to explain how various random religions can exist as real things in the same world and their very much real gods can govern the same thing. If they are the same person then...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[NINE-lives]

He already had a pretty good explanation of how all myths are true with the whole “textures as pocket dimensions” thing.

[Anju Addams]

He already had a pretty good explanation of how all myths are true with the whole “textures as pocket dimensions” thing.

Nasu does like to overcomplicate things sometimes. I mean look at Sherlock's Trial Quest or the Charlemagne/Karl stuff. Like I said - just random speculation. We might never know why.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯