yes Kinoko said Xian are too strong, not 'you can't summon Xian' which led to lot of misunderstanding.Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory
yes Kinoko said Xian are too strong, not 'you can't summon Xian' which led to lot of misunderstanding.
theoretically the question of whether xian would stomp or not is irrelevant. why would a xian respond to your summon at all? they're (a) not dead and therefore not on the throne of heroes, and (b) are in such a position (partying on mount penglai all day, among other things) that it is hard to imagine them wanting anything the grail could notionally provide
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
Considering of what we see of Yu Meiren and that other Xian from Case Files? Yeah, Nasu has a hell of a point.
Is TM using Theravada Buddhism? More specifically for Buddha I mean. It seems like an extreme version of it considering we're told he's the only one that ever gained enlightenment, though we know that Kiara also has the potential for it, just didn't make it in this universe.
TM is not "using" any particular school of Buddhism. Not in the way you mean, anyway.
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
If anything that's more a point that they're underpowered or average. Yu and Wuzhiqi if anything aren't the most impressive. At least Wuzhiqi has the excuse of a proxy body, but then you get into how Philosophy Keys seem a lot worse than Magic Crests and a lot more limiting even at the super founder Xian level.
I'm pretty sure it was rather that Urobuchi wanted the Yellow Emperor/Huangdi which is way crazier and pretty much the absolute peak of what you could get from any Chinese lore, history and mythology. Not a Xian.
Not sure why the keys are a limit when one can use the Xian art without the keys. You join the gang in the official ways you get a key. But you can gain access to it via other ways and can even fake a key to illegally access the juicy stuffs. The library in of itself contains a lot more than any other foundations as well to the point they feel no need to reach the Root.
Do you even know Chinese mythology? A Xian is in fact the absolute peak of what you could get from any Chinese lore and Urobuchi specifically wanted one of them. No idea what you're even talking about when Yellow Emperor is not even close to the top tier yet he had a Beast guarding his tomb. Even Wukong or Taigong Wang are mid tier compare to the ones sitting at the top. Saying Yu Meiren and Wuzhiqi isn't being impressive for a Xian is no diff from saying Stheno is unimpressive for a goddess. In Xian ranking system it goes extremely deep to the point that the gap between a top tier and the lower tier is like the difference between a knife and a nuke.
Huh... I thought most of the lore about Buddhism in FGO comes from Vajrayana Buddhism and Shingon Buddhism. Didn't Theravada Buddhism didn't believe in Gods, Karma, Samsara and such?
All wrong.
1) All schools of Buddhism don't believe in a Creator God, or divine authorities of the gods over humans. It's not that they don't have "gods", rather "gods" (devas) are simply treated as high class beings within the universe who can attain enlightenment just like humans and demons.
2) All schools of Buddhism have central focus on Karma and Samsara. It is literally the core of the whole thing. idk which school of Buddhism you heard of that do not have Karma and Samsara. There might be differences in the interpretations and applications of the concepts, but the cores are the same.
The main differences are actually in how one school view self-enlightenment (becoming arhat) vs the other focusing on practice the paths of other Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas. Both of these ideas on their own are outdated when it comes to the unified Buddhism view globally and the mix of the two are preferred, which was what Nasu used together with Esoteric syncretism for cool factor.
Source: My grandma is a Theravada Buddhist monk who is also a professor researching the development of Buddhism in East and South East Asia.
If goetia already gathered all energy from incinerating human history since the beginning of part 1, why didn't he just start the time travel? Why did he wait for chaldea to finish their singularities while he already had all needed energy to go to the past?
He wasn't waiting. He was completing his Ars Nova settings and measurements for the unprecedented 4.6 billion years time travel to the beginning of the planet, and we arrived a few minutes before it is fully completed. The interruption made him unable to finish the final touches to start the time travel and he is eventually defeated.
got it
I see, thanks for clarifying. What's funny though the first time I know Buddhism i was told that Buddhism don't believe in God. I don't even know Bodhisattva is a thing at the time, after i know of Bodhisattva and Primordial Buddha i though they're gods in Buddhism and the Buddhism that didn't believe in God is just a sect/branch of Buddhism.
western moment
i mean same but that makes it worse rather than better
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Can testify... was a hardcore Theravada practitioner until Nasu led me the way to weeb stuffs
Well technically the gods in Theravada Myth is more like divine beings with flaws and relatively longer finite lifespan.
Not to disrespect your Grandma, but Theravada is very much alive in Thailand and several other SEA countries, where it's by far the majority version of Buddhism. And while it might've taken a little bit from other versions, it is still very true to the traditional Theravada. The main difference which got me to ask the question, was more in regards to who can become enlightened. In Theravada, only the monks and religious figures can become enlightened; if you ain't a monk, then you gotta become one in your next life. You can only go so far without becoming a monk in that lifetime. And that seems to be how it is in Fate, given how we're told that Saver is the sole human that became enlightened, though it's implied Kiara could as well in the right timeline. Although I can see a case for Mahayana Buddhism, where followers will purposefully postpone enlightenment to help others reach the path. I know there's other differences but those are usually finer ones that I haven't seen Fate go into yet.
I'm told that Kiara in new Tsuki obtains enlightenment but then decides to renounce it or something? Someone can fill me in I'm sure. If that's true, then I suppose that'd be a strong indication it's Mahayana, or another version.
Yes I am aware they're using their own made up version, I was more just wanting to know if their version has enlightenment available to everyone, or just the monks.
Not sure if it was the same as enlightenment. Though she became a demon and gained some higher dimensional awareness and abilities. But she realized she was a fledgling compared to the beings in the Demon Heaven (such a thing apparently exists). So she chose to remain in the current dimension where her worth was higher.
That makes me wonder if Kiara in Tsukihime is just more powerful than her Fate variants. She never seemed disillusioned with her own abilities in either of those works.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Nasu's mind seems to close link Buddhism and space.
In the extra materials, he mentions that when he was researching Buddhism for Kiara, he came across the statement that boddhisattvas are responsible for the management of a whole Solar System and went "Holy shit, those Indians really went crazy with the cosmogony power creep". This alone isn't a lore statement in my opinion, but the subtle hints are all over the place, such as with Kiara's CCC NP having her get bigger than the planet, her Final Ascension art having our Solar System planets orbiting around her, Kama only evolving into Mara after Shiva's incineration equated her with the universe, or Dark Koyan's "Celestial foxes are the law of the cosmos" quote.
So my read of "Tsuki Kiara climbed to the rank of Maradeva but backed out" is that she transcended Earth, saw she was a scrub at the Solar System level, and decided to remain earthbound because pathetic as she was in the grand scheme of the universe, she's still almighty to Earth's standards.
Last edited by Comun; December 3rd, 2022 at 02:40 PM.
Roa's statement about how "the path to human perception and omnipotence" is endless along with the statement that says she is still "bound by matter and this universe" makes me think she is omnipotent within the Human Universe of Awareness rather than by Earth's standards.
Celestial bodies themselves have their own views and perspective through which they see the universe and you cannot achieve their sense of awareness without being a celestial body itself if you think about it.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Not to disrespect you in particular, but neither me nor my grandma ever said Theravada is dead whatsoever so idk how you got that impression. I even said she is a Theravada monk (why do you think she had to become one? I'm sure you knew why since you talked about it). Perhaps read it more carefully next time.
I assume you got triggered by the line about how both tradition of Mahayana and Theravada are "outdated", but that has nothing to do with both traditions being dead whatsoever (they are in fact not dead). My grandma is a monk AND an academic, she doesn't simply view Buddhism and study it under one school or another now, even if her roots is Theravada (she is actually part-Cambodian). She even went to India to research Esoteric traditions. From the academic perspective, the study on its general encompassing values and ideas are more important that debating who can be enlightened, a monk or a normal buddhist, or do you have to only believe in Buddhism. Focusing on exploring and explaining the core values for a unified Buddhism ideological front are more important than separating schools. That's the point.
There is a reason the World Fellowship of Buddhists changed they way the referred to Theravada in 1950, removing the "Hirayana" in one of the names being used to refer to Theravada buddhism, because it has certain derogatory connotations especially in East and South East Asia due to the meaning of Hirayana (smaller vehicle) vs Mahayana (greater vehicle). They don't want the two sides to keep debating and splitting apart but united under the core values of Buddhism than wasting time on calling each other out. That is why I said both of these sides viewing their tradition is the best is outdated. I did not say anything about either of these traditions being dead lol.
Saver is the human who attained enlightenment, but Vairocana, Amida exist. That alone should tell you that Nasu, like I said, didn't use any particular school but a mixture of elements from bits of different schools (Theravada is the least relevant one in Nasu version).And that seems to be how it is in Fate, given how we're told that Saver is the sole human that became enlightened, though it's implied Kiara could as well in the right timeline. Although I can see a case for Mahayana Buddhism, where followers will purposefully postpone enlightenment to help others reach the path. I know there's other differences but those are usually finer ones that I haven't seen Fate go into yet.
Enlightenment is available to virtual NPC Hakuno. Been there since Fate/Extra. In fact it was literally how they managed to survive Buddha's NP in the Fate/Extra drama CD.Yes I am aware they're using their own made up version, I was more just wanting to know if their version has enlightenment available to everyone, or just the monks.
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