A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[Leftovers]

Either way, why does this topic always have to be so melodramatic? After years and years in a franchise you've grown tired of it because you don't like the direction of it. Fine, that's great for you that you're able to realize that and not be stuck in some prison of sunk cost fallacy. But "saying goodbye" and people always making like formal "I'm leaving the community" posts as if it's some official club, or as if Nasu is watching, now intent on changing his ways, is just so melodramatic for no benefit. Can't people just walk away from things they don't like anymore (I know the answer, yes, it's a rhetorical question)?

It's usually not done for benefit of anyone but themselves, parting with an interest and/or community that may have been a central part of their everyday life for years.

By the same token, people rationalising their personal feelings can draw flak on their intent and legitimacy of emotion (lol) regarding Current Thing because other people have comparable stakes in Current Thing insofar as it is the cornerstone of their own interest and identity in the community. Then the nostalgia of the former - who perceive a radical transformation of their experience of The Thing - chafes against the latter - who came because of the change and only now experience The Thing - precipitating conflict, erecting ideologies, radicalising, polarising, all-around making things miserable. Being able to say goodbye to something you once liked and then walk away is laudable, all things considered. FGO ain't even the first time it's happened on BL.

[aldeayeah]

Wouldn't have a problem with FGO had it just stayed as a spin-off story in a mobile game format. It overstayed its welcome the moment Nasu started adding lore to connect with other works and treat it more seriously in spite of being a cash-grab at heart. I think there's a good handful of people that while excited about the remake they are also upset about it inevitably having ties with FGO one way or another, same for future TM works.

Once Nasu starts going, he won't stop. You could assign him to writing IKEA instruction manuals, and he'd find a way to tie it back to his personal omniverse.

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I think a bigger issue is him wanting all the otaku money AND wanting to be a pretentious person at the same time

Ah, the Evangelion gambit

[Byegod]

This hits it on the head for me. I'm no fan of the gacha model and take issues with it but my big gripe is the shitty format being used as a vehicle to convey content that deserves better. I mean a lot of it probably doesn't deserve better given how wack some of the lore is in FGO but some of the more overarching themes could do to be better explored in a different project. The blatant waifu-baiting is also kinda cringe but whatever. I definitely don't like the idea of every future work being whored out for FGO content patches or it being where they just off-handedly add shit to the TM system.

That said, hopefully the next decade will be more than just Fate milking. In the meantime I'll just enjoy that I'll be playing Melty Blood instead of Fate FighterZ in a month.

I agree on the vehicle part, i would argue that my thing on profiles telling us nothing heavily is part of this issue in that we have entire Nps/skills that tell us nothing, or they give us less than nothing.

Once Nasu starts going, he won't stop. You could assign him to writing IKEA instruction manuals, and he'd find a way to tie it back to his personal omniverse.

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Ah, the Evangelion gambit

Kinda yeah, but In some ways I would argue it's worse, with Eva shinji isnt a total self insert and the message is understandable to anyone and is Hard to fuck up (we need to communicate, keeping secrets can be bad ect)

While the pandering inherent to fate goes against a lot of parts nasu wishes to do which intern creates this "friction", That's why I think there is a degree of passive aggressiveness in parts of modern nasu, I inherently disagree with large parts of nasu's philisophy as you all know but FGO and such waifu things dont help either (and i do like anime waifu's a lot)

[aldeayeah]

I honestly don't think the quality of Nasu's output has varied much all these years.

I'm including only the novels and sufficiently novel-like games - can't speak about FGO because I wouldn't touch the thing with a ten foot pole.

[Byegod]

I honestly don't think the quality of Nasu's output has varied much all these years.

I'm including only the novels and sufficiently novel-like games - can't speak about FGO because I wouldn't touch the thing with a ten foot pole.

I suppose, I mean i did say a lot of the problems Have always exist but they are just more obvious/stacked up over time

[Deathhappens]

I thought we had an agreement to keep Dullahan out of FGO-related discussions because neither he nor the opposing side can hold an argument in good faith or even respect one another.

Doom and gloom about, ah, *opens notes* new Nasu should really be kept to oneself until we get a reliable idea of how remake turned out to be. Especially, since we know that Nasu dedicated himself to the remake enough to temporarily relieve himself of any FGO duties that didn't require him to write directly.

This is not an FGO-related discussion, even if it has taken a distinctly FGO-related turn.

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FGO bad because capitalism is a solid take. Also, I feel so long as your reasons for disliking FGO don't have anything to do with any abhorrent right-wing beliefs, I don't care.

Ahem, I believe you mean "abhorrent beliefs regardless of political persuasion".

Unless you actually meant to imply that abhorrent beliefs of a non-right wing nature are A-OK with you.

[Deathhappens]

This isn't directly related to the thread topic, but since it was called for and it helps me personally organise my thoughts on the matter, here are the reasons I dislike FGO:

1) It utilises, invests in, and promotes an utterly predatory and customer-unfriendly content delivery model, namely "gacha 'game'" (the "game" part in HEAVY quotation).

2) It has, due to its explosive success, overtaken, wiped off the board, or cannibalized nearly any other project Type-Moon might have created in the past half decade. The people complaining, once upon a halcyon age, about Apocrypha and Strange Fake and Fragments 'diluting the pool' of TM content, as it were, and overtaking the Tsukihime/KT/Melty Blood crowd, had no idea to what extent their worst nightmares were about to come true.

3) Beyond what was already taken off the board to make room for more FGO, consider how much content WAS delivered, over and done with, but warped through the gacha looking glass. How many Servants' personal skills would be different if they didn't need the extra Arts boost from Territory Creation or the crit from Independent Action? How much differently could a story like LB6 have been told outside the constraints of the little arrows? How many characters would (rightly) never have existed or existed in a wholly different form if not for the ever-present hunger to Make Them Playable?

4) It's just not a good game, gameplay-wise. The story is good, the music is good, the visuals are good. But the base game sucks and they haven't fixed it in six years going.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I think most abhorrent beliefs in our political spectrum right now are fundamentally right-wing, even the shitty takes of liberals and tankies. The latter are red fascists, and the former have a few too many reactionary tendencies.

I will note, this doesn't cover disagreements in strategy/praxis.

[Ratman]

Old Nasu fully died by the time of CCC. Even new Tsukihime's mood is gonna be radically different than what old fans want if he really fully rewrote it based on his current feelings and worldview. Even if TsukiR manages to preserve the soul of the original any new sequels or IPs will be more in tune with what Nasu wrote in the last few years.

There's pretty much no point in following Nasu seeking more of the old stuff anymore. Old fans should stop agonizing themselves over it and fully drop TM instead of hanging around with huge melancholy and a faint hope for something that's never gonna happen.

Looking at what we've got for previews of TsukiRe, I will actually give TM this: They correctly understood how the forced minimalism worked immensely in Tsukihime's favor, and how important it is that character designs conceal power rather than flaunt it like an Arcsys character. You're gonna say hurr durr short skirt arc is overdesigned but meanwile, it's become the favourite hobby of the fighting game community to complain how the designs of Lumina characters are boring because they just look like people you'd meet on a street.

That is excellent. Obviously Melty will actually have extravagant characters like Nero, but the fact that they kept themselves on the leash and didn't instantly go full dragonball on everything says a lot. Sion was from the start designed as 'a character who would look good in motion 64 pixels tall', suggesting frenchbread understood 20 years ago that the Tsuki cast looks boring for a fighting game. But they stuck to it, and it gave the game personality. I'm very glad it's still present in high res sprites.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

This isn't directly related to the thread topic, but since it was callex for and it helps me personally organise my thoughts on the matter, here are the reasons I dislike FGO:

1) It utilises, invests in, and promotes an utterly predatory and customer-unfriendly content delivery model, namely "gacha 'game'" (the "game" part in HEAVY quotation).

2) It has, due to its explosive success, overtaken, wiped off the board, or cannibalized nearly any other project Type-Moon might have created in the past half decade. The people complaining, once upon a halcyon age, about Apocrypha and Strange Fake and Fragments 'diluting the pool' of TM content, as it were, and overtaking the Tsukihime/KT/Melty Blood crowd, had no idea to what extent their worst nightmares were about to come true.

3) Beyond what was already taken off the board to make room for more FGO, consider how much content WAS delivered, over and done with, but warped through the gacha looking glass. How many Servants' personal skills would be different if they didn't need the extra Arts boost from Territory Creation or the crit from Independent Action? How differently could a story like LB6 have been told outside the constraints of the little arrows? How many characters would (rightly) never have existed or existed in a wholly different form if not for the ever-present hunger to Make Them Playable?

4) It's just not a good game, gameplaywise. The story is good, the music is good, the visuals are good. But the base game sucks and they haven't fixed it in six years going.

100% agree with this take right here.

[Crown]

The people complaining, once upon a halcyon age, about Apocrypha and Strange Fake and Fragments 'diluting the pool' of TM content, as it were, and overtaking the Tsukihime/KT/Melty Blood crowd, had no idea to what extent their worst nightmares were about to come true.

this is me, I never could've imagined how things would get to this extent ( with Fragments and Apo, and I honestly think Fragments is kinda boring)

[TomPen94]

This is not an FGO-related discussion, even if it has taken a distinctly FGO-related turn..

It is often cited as a major reason for someone who feels disenfranchised, disappointed or straight up pissed off with the current state of affairs.
And it has also been cited by the OP as one of the factors that led to their departure.

It's almost intrinsically linked to the topic at hand, as unfortunate as that might sound.

[Namelesss]

But its time to move on.
Perhaps we will meet again under the blue, blue glass moon. But until then, stay well everyone & farewell.[/QUOTE]


So basically your tired of consuming all this fate shenanigan's they been pulling out in the last 10 or 5 years I would say? and you want to take a break and then you'll come back when TM starts being the old traditionally like they were from the beginning?

Off topic but that is actually hilarious that you chose that FGO video because personally my favorite FGO video of all time.

Why? because this Japanese dude despair transform into that video. This guy made a cover, sang it, edited, voices(including female), fgo memes, all that just to rant about this kusoge.

[eddyak]

You can't just go and say that your own take is solid, that's not how it works. You can't just try to score points like that.

but how will plebs know me gud if me dont say me gud

the visuals are good

...to an extent. It's been six years and topped the Shitty Microtransactions Earnings boards multiple months in a row, multiple times, and they still bring out GenericRPGMakerRingWraithSprite and TransparentLeftSlash4 because they can't afford to have somebody draw a sprite of a new enemy(???), or actually program the ingame battle thing to, y'know, show battles outside of direct gameplay.

It's still so goddamn minimal effort in all the ways that count.

[Rafflesiac]

or actually program the ingame battle thing to, y'know, show battles outside of direct gameplay.

That happens a few times past Solomon. Hit or miss, tbh.

[Herod]

I'm not sure how can you read something like LB6 and call that minimal effort, but you do you.

[R.Lock]

Personally, I don't think a blogpost should have been a thread, nor be made into a platform for throwing rotten tomatoes at FGO, but you do, people, you do.

[SeiKeo]

This state and this society produce gacha, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Gacha is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against gacha is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is gacha.

Gacha suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Gacha is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of gacha as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of gacha is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which gacha is the halo.

[Altima of the Gates]

Personally, I don't think a blogpost should have been a thread, nor be made into a platform for throwing rotten tomatoes at FGO, but you do, people, you do.

Waxing philosophical on your enjoyment of a franchise as fans is just what fandoms do when they reach a certain threshold.
That said, this is about as circular as people saying "FF will die any minute now". Its purely that people want certain franchises or ideas to get more love....and that's basically it. You could ignore the text walls and distill it into just that.
Also, people say they leave, but then just come back randomly here all the time. No harm in letting them have their rant. Although I too find it odd to run this down this road right when TM seems like they'll start picking up steam on project outside of Fate.

[OverMaster]

This is not an FGO-related discussion, even if it has taken a distinctly FGO-related turn.

All rivers of Type Moon go into the Grand Order sea nowadays, except for those rivers that dry up because of inaction and as such run dry of new things to comment (Strange Fake, Tsukihime until right now).

Grand Order has become the elephant in the room. For better or worse, it's pretty much impossible to talk about Type Moon now without it going into GO in some way or the other.