A Fond Farewell to TYPE-Moon

[Seres]

I regret starting with KnK movies which I still consider my favorite piece of TM media.

[Altima of the Gates]

This is arrogant for me to comment
but I just wish they experienced first something better

I'll be the harsh one and say they might not want to experience what you perceive as "better" and will like what they like, and some will move forward to those "better" titles.
You have no control over that. I've tried to introduce more things than FGO to people, but its palatable for the same reasons people made a thousand and one grail war fanfics following the same formulas for years. Or shonens use the same tropes but we have them be one of the wider reaching pieces of anime media globally.
So yes, they might just want to have their cheeseburger, not the filet mignon you want to offer. And sometimes, a cheeseburger is just fine.

[Desann]

but I just wish they experienced first something better

Many of the old fans started from Deen FSN or anime-that-doesn't-exist, I wouldn't call it very good starting material either.

[Ideofago]

Alienated as they are, you have no right to directly enforce the masses to content you may perceive as better. Even if the junk they consume is reused, repeated, low effort, and a highly schematized machine of torture and profit, it is their right to remain blissfully ignorant in it, and there is nothing to be done.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Fair point. As a Zero secondary, it took me about 2 years to finally read the VN after creating an account here. Still not sure about KnK novels or reading Tsukihime, but it might happen.

[Twelveseal]

As someone who has played, and paid money into it, I can say with confidence that FGO is objectively bad, and while its revenue stream has been beneficial and there are some benefits to aspects of it, its overall impact on the setting as a whole is a negative.

• The game is a miserable vehicle for the stories that it tells, many of which would be best served as standalone projects with their own protagonists rather than strung together as part of a meta-narrative with a self-insert MC with essentially no identity outside of the occasional 4th-wall-breaking comedic response. None of which have any actual significance to the plot. It's a sad day when Cardboard-kun has more character than you.
• The gameplay is monotonous to the point of insanity and the gacha is miserable even by gacha standards, without touching Capitalism and gambling.
• It introduces a host of characters, many of which are interesting but ill-served by the medium and their roles in the game but are present for financial reasons and little else. Of the ones that do see significant development, it has an ugly tendency to focus on ones that already enjoy popularity through their presence in other media.
• The meta-narrative itself is toxic to further projects within the setting proper due to its timeline-hopping nature, having displayed through its various Events that it touches (or is) the Prime Branch, versions of EXTRA's timeline, KnK, Prototype in some capacity, and the Servant Universe, and will undoubtedly touch the Tsukihime-side timelines despite those supposedly being incapable of producing Servants. Specifically, the role Ritsuka and Chaldea's Servants play in the setting is one of an absolute fixer that resolves any sufficiently terrible event. This undermines any story that would include a potential "threat to humanity." Which will now, due to FGO's existence, include every entry into the setting henceforth for the sake of tie-in Events. This in turn means that the actions of the characters in those works are inherently less significant, as should they fail, Guda will just show up and fix everything anyway, almost certainly saving the major characters and adding some bastardized version of them to the Servant roster. The existence of Chaldea undermines the actual risk involved in the setting while also making small-scale, personal stories where humanity-threatening events don't happen highly unlikely to be made in the future. For financial reasons.

That FGO brought people into the fandom is undeniable. I have no problem with that, or them. It bankrolls other projects. Projects that are much desired and long-awaited. But the game itself should not be. It's a cash grab that is otherwise detrimental to the setting and to the stories and characters it contains in its framework. TM was already making games other than Visual Novels by the time it appeared; Unlimited Codes, EXTRA, its sequels, Tiger Colo, and more, some of which are good and some of which are dubious. Likewise anime of varying quality, to say nothing of novels. FGO, however, was a mistake. A fabulously lucrative one. But a mistake. And it is one that will likely never go away so long as the setting continues.

This is my opinion on it. Agree or disagree is up to you, but my mind is unlikely to change on it.

[Namelesss]

I'd like to chime in here. I always had sensed that Beast's Lair is just bitter about FGO. You seem like a bunch of jaded fans that didn't want anything to change but enjoy the depths of the lore to the extent that its detrimental to the fandom.

I don't really know about BL in general that much but being bitter about FGO? I wonder why? It's almost as if a certain doujin company made them feel that way...

FGO comes along and brings in a lot of casual players to the fandom. I think this is where the saltiness comes in. Old veterans don't want a bunch of secondaries entering the fandom and don't like that type moon is permanently changed by FGO. The thing is fate has changed for the better. One of the neatest things about fate are servants and the idea that so many people from history and mythology could become one. Old type moon didn't do much to make new characters very often, FGO made it so that they had to for gatcha money.

Personally I think FGO ruined their Fate image even more now and adding secondaries just adds fuel to it.

Weather it was a main story or a silly event since FGO came about there has been a major influx of new content. You claim that FGO has somehow killed or delayed whatever you think type moon would have made but I think of what we wouldn't have if FGO didn't happen. Many servants like Mushasi, Raikou, Anatasia, Ishtar and Queen Meab were made for the game.

Nasu: FGO introduced a lot of new lore. But FGO's scale is only that large because TsukiR was produced first and laid that groundwork. Without TsukiR, FGO would have ended as a much smaller story. In that sense, pausing TsukiR's production to produce FGO paid off, and we'll get the brand new experience of seeing people learning what those plot points they've seen in FGO were about.

This was just a recent interview and even if this wasn't out said by him, it's pretty obvious FGO did delay their main works, you can't argue that. Yes, they were made for that game but at the end of the day they are fgo servants, sluts, or fan service.

Instead of complaining about FGO, don't play it if you don't like it. The gatcha money is making the Tsukimhime remake better anyways, and all the stuff they didn't make because of FGO is happening now. As a fan that loved type moon before FGO I can say the change is good, and for me FGO was the best thing to happen. I like the game, it's gameplay and what it added to the universe.

The gacha money is making Tsukhime better? Please on what planet did u find this info on? I'm going to take a guess it was probably Uranus. The only "good change" I can see from this is only business wise that is it and if FGO was the reason to make the other stuff they didn't make well that's just disappointing.

To each his own, right?

I probably would've liked FGO more if it was a intended spin off and not a gacha. Heck, I probably would've all been for a FGO mmorpg if it was something TM wanted to do.

[Twelveseal]

Not going to lie, if FGO had had a different game model and been less all-consuming in scope, I would probably like it. An MMORPG would have been far more enjoyable, especially if it hadn't tied in to all of the various timelines it does and was more self-contained.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I actually like the sprawling timelines that FGO brought into play. Self-containedness is overrated, infinite crossover potential FTW.

[Twelveseal]

Yeah, no. See, the thing with the Nasuverse is you could previously just make whatever timeline parameters you wanted (even if it was something that'd normally get Pruned) and it would still make sense and could be lore-friendly. You don't need crossovers in the Nasuverse because you can just screw with the timeline you're working with so that it's not actually a crossover at all.

FGO's design effectively makes it a sort of contagion that hops from one distinct timeline to another and links them all, thus creating the sort of stake-undermining failsafe I mentioned. Which, to me, diminishes the significance of future, and past, characters in their own plots from the perspective of the reader.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Yeah, I was partially joking with the infinite crossover FTW part, but I still like FGO's timeline linking narrative since it has established exactly how timelines differ and how the whole structure works. Moreover, yeah, there are events in other time trees, but for the most part, FGO sticks to its own time tree, and there's even the implication that the bleaching of the Earth actually got rid of all the time trees and condensed it all into one human history. Also, I have a soft spot for 'verses that involve a ton of timeline shenanigans and explore the nature of history and the passage of time itself.

[Comun]

I think you're mistaking Chaldea with Zelretch. Chaldea only looks at its own branch, Zelretch is the benevolent force observing the full Nasuverse and providing a failsafe whenever he feels like he has to.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I wasn't sure if the bleaching affected other time trees or not.

[Herod]

Yeah, no. See, the thing with the Nasuverse is you could previously just make whatever timeline parameters you wanted (even if it was something that'd normally get Pruned) and it would still make sense and could be lore-friendly. You don't need crossovers in the Nasuverse because you can just screw with the timeline you're working with so that it's not actually a crossover at all.

FGO's design effectively makes it a sort of contagion that hops from one distinct timeline to another and links them all, thus creating the sort of stake-undermining failsafe I mentioned. Which, to me, diminishes the significance of future, and past, characters in their own plots from the perspective of the reader.

what.
There is no timeline hopping in FGO. all the stuff happens in the same branch. The singularity are self contained time bubbles that happens on that branch, even the Lostbelts are "painted" over the same identical branch. The only timeline hoppers we saw were Musashi and Arthur, the protagonists can't hop at all.

[TomPen94]

FGO does fit in with the theme of fate. Its about Heroic spirits and how they reafirm humanity and history. The clash is with the fate of humanity rather than a personal battle within ones self. So it does fit the theme of fate, just in a different way.

That's what Fate the franchise became, not what Fate/stay night was. No one can read Answer and tell me with a straight face that FSN is about the clash of humanity's fate or however you put it instead of a personal battle.
I don't think we're quite having the same conversation here.

disagree. Each story semi-stands alone. So when new characters are added they have a story that comes with it. New stories new characters. This isn't a problem at all IMO

I don't know what you're disagreeing with. You were the one that said characters were added because of the gacha. If that's the reason they're added then the narrative throughline has a chance of not meshing with the character as well as it could've been if it was all done with the single purpose of telling a single story.

Given your description, feels more like characters and their stories are like pieces of lego. Now lego can be used to build some impressive things but it won't match the quality of something built from scratch.

[Twelveseal]

I think you're mistaking Chaldea with Zelretch. Chaldea only looks at its own branch, Zelretch is the benevolent force observing the full Nasuverse and providing a failsafe whenever he feels like he has to.

Nope. This is something distinct from Zel's role as Observer Observer in-continuity and has everything to do with both FGO's Event model and the various realities its canonical Events crossover with.

what.
There is no timeline hopping in FGO. all the stuff happens in the same branch. The singularity are self contained time bubbles that happens on that branch, even the Lostbelts are "painted" over the same identical branch. The only timeline hoppers we saw were Musashi and Arthur, the protagonists can't hop at all.

Mhmmm, yes, yes. We're still dealing with timeline crossing BS that I have no doubt will continue to expand with time.

[Herod]

Nope. This is something distinct from Zel's role as Observer Observer in-continuity and has everything to do with both FGO's Event model and the various realities its canonical Events crossover with.

Like what? Can you please identify an event where you actually travel in another timeline?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I think they're counting events like the Apocrypha event, Accel Zero Order, the Case Files event and so on, even though most of those are Singularities and not time trees.

[Twelveseal]

No. I'm looking at the inevitability of the Tsuki crossover.

[Herod]

No. I'm looking at the inevitability of the Tsuki crossover.

It will simply be another bubble that has no effect on the Tsukihime storyline at all, just as usual.