Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[fumei]

Ignoring some theories and considerations with simulations and texture stuff, in general I feel that really thinking hard about how pruning works on a wider scale, and how it affects things "outside" the texture (as in, for example, on another planet, looking at earth) when you add in stuff like the texture even affecting space and pruning, is just not a good thing to do. It's a bit like when you think too much about how the throne is supposed to work. One consideration that sort of works most of the time is if you think about how with the Lostbelts, if you stand outside you see this blotch on the world, with pretty defined edges, but if you stand inside you don't see abrupt edges, but rather it's as if the world just "keeps on going" (at least, I think this was mentioned at one point, but even that falls apart really quickly). Applying that to earth's textures would sort of explain how they can affect the wider universe/solar system, while still allowing for things "outside" to be their own thing.

Basically, it'd be as if you were just "imagining" everything in a very real way if you're inside the texture. Or, you could say, it's all fiction (something something Gilles' space talks in Scramble).

Anyway don't think about it too hard probably, I really doubt Nasu did to the point where he had it fleshed out without a bunch of holes.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

My own speculation about the matter of timeline;

Earth's sense of time is based on its rotation and revolution. This also applies to other celestial bodies within the solar system, but with different rotation and revolution thus distinct from Earth's sense of time, so it's hard for PHH's QTL, and by extension, pruning to take place if they're not following Earth's time. Beyond that, I don't know if other planetary systems follow that same law of causality, since I'm not really knowledgeable about that topic, but I assumed that they're entirely different that the "clamps" of PHH don't apply to them, and they're bound by their own clamps based on their dominant beings' perceptions similar to Alaya in Earth.

[Nanaya]

Is it wise to just assume a mechanic governed by Alaya works the same in a world with vampire aids and where Gaia is likely more of a focus than humanity?
As for the incineration, I tend to think fumei's consideration of multiple multiverses has merit but may as well wait until Nasu randomly drops some trivia in an interview.
And all hail the MVP that protected the Past&Future from all the bullshit btw.

[TresserT]

I'm less concerned about the textures and more concerned about timelines.

Let's say I'm some alien machine god coming from the distant planet TrES-2b. Let's say Earth's pruning phenomenon only applies to the Earth itself, or even the solar system around it. As an outsider I crash onto Earth. What timeline do I land in? If I'm separate from the whole timeline tree system, how is it decided whether I, as an outsider, land in an FGO timeline, or an FSN timeline, or a Prilya timeline?

In most works I would assume a universe is within a timeline. The Prilyaverse is literally the entire universe within the Prilya timeline, not just Earth. This is somewhat supported by the fact that the moon cell exists within some timelines where the Crimson Moon exists in others, though that can be chalked up to the Moon being within Earth's sphere of influence. But if that's the case here it would mean that mankind's will determines the entire universe's fate, which is kind of whack to me. Especially when other planets should have just as much if not more powerful wills than us.

As for Goetia's plan, he wants to rocket himself back to the creation of the Earth- the base of the timeline tree- and burn it all down. He isn't destroying a branch, he wants to destroy the entire tree. It doesn't matter if multiple Goetias exist in multiple timelines because no Goetias exist at the beginning of Earth's creation, and if any Goetias make it there then all other Goetias cease to exist since they'll be destroyed with the rest of the tree.

Melty Blood Manga confirms that this is an issue even in Tsuki timelines, so he's definitely destroying the entire tree not just his branch.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I'd like to think that thanks to Earth's consistent rotation and revolution, the moment an extraterrestrial is introduced to its domain is always fixed, such as Sefar arriving in 12000BC, or ORT arriving 5000 years too early for promised time in Notes to name a few.

I based this on that there're no timelines that depict Sefar arriving earlier or later than that period, or ORT arriving on time during Notes, they're always consistently told to arrive on those exact time periods. But once they descent, they needed to abide by the rules of Earth, and so the stories of the time they perished or still prospering vary in each branch or trunk makes sense since they're within Earth's sphere of influence. And in the off-chance they managed to get out of Earth and its influence, their reality will no longer abide to PHH's course.

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Speculations btw.

[Dartz]

Melty Blood Manga confirms that this is an issue even in Tsuki timelines, so he's definitely destroying the entire tree not just his branch.

I always thought Goetia's plan was doomed to failure even if he reached the Genesis of the planet tbh.
Unless the timelines are separate to such an extent that you can get a brain of the planet in FGO and one in Tsuki as different entities that can operate within their own trees/timelines.

[Nanaya]

You're assuming there is only one tree.

[Dartz]

Well I could be wrong but I imagined it was something like this, with the Brain being on a higher dimension outside the timelines and tree of time, the Inner Sea also being right below and outside the tree of time as well.
I mean I'm pretty sure Merlin was outside the tree which is why he could show up at different points in history. And it's not like the Inner Sea seems to be particularly different whether it's Fate or Tsukihime, what with Red Arcueid recognizing Saber and telling her to go back to Avalon.

[AAM1232]

I didn't see anywhere in the Prillya storyline saying anything about the Prillya world being incinerated. I mean there should be a Goetia in other timelines outside FGO trying to enact his ritual thing as well. For him to burn Prillya verse there would have to be a Prillya Goetia unless you're saying there is only one Goetia in the entire Nasuverse multiverse, but that's clearly not the case.

No, it's not direct implication, but indirect given the terminology used to describe how the Prillya world is totally fine despite the Incineration compared to other crossovers within FGO. Taking the opposite meaning from what I said and meant.

[Reign]

The thing is the entirety of the AoM texture on top of the physical universe is what's referred to as the solar system in this context, wherever Voyager reached since it's based on human observation.

It's tangential to the discussion but I actually checked this a while back and as of 2022 Voyager is currently outside the sun's gravitational pull but not yet at the Oort cloud. Some trivia for you.

[TresserT]

Oh, I think I see where some confusion is.

Goetia had two things going on. The first was the incineration of humanity throughout history, which reached its peak in 2016. This affected the FGO timeline and ONLY the FGO timeline- he wasn't burning the whole tree, he wasn't even burning a branch. He was purely burning physical matter within that one timeline. The incineration of humanity only mattered to the FGO timeline.

But the incineration of humanity was just a means to an end. Goetia didn't burn up all of human history to destroy humanity. He burned up FGO's world so he could use it as fuel to rocket himself back to Genesis. THAT'S the thing that would ripple across all timelines. But Goetia never actually made it that far because we stopped him before he could succeed. Had he succeeded, he would have destroyed the entire tree altogether instead of just "emptying out" a branch.

[fumei]

I feel like that only works if you assume KnK is part of the FGO timeline which is clearly not the case given Nasu wording it as Shiki going back to her "original world".

[Nanaya]

Red Arcueid recognizing Saber and telling her to go back to Avalon.

I'd take that as a meta reference or her being able to view different universes like Fabro rather than them being roomies given how in Sabers ending they clearly don't know each other and her homefield line to her. Being outside of space-time or a universe doesn't mean something in necessarily outside of all universes in the sense that there is only one iteration.

[Arete]

I get the impression that the border of the human zone is the heliosphere, which Voyager left in 2012. It makes sense that since the sun is strongly tied to the world just like the moon, that it's boundaries would be important. It would also indicate that if the other planets have their own pruning system and branching timelines that their borders are the heliosphere as well.

Branch timelines are obviously something that other planets have given how the Moon Cell can just casually destroy all timelines for a world. It's a little weird though how CM didn't seem to be aware of them given how he was surprised by the second magic, which is effectively the multiple timelines. It makes me wonder how Zelretch would react if Goetia or FELE Twice's plans had succeeded and there were only one timeline left. Would that effectively destroy the second magic, or would new timelines just start popping up?

[Dartz]

I'd take that as a meta reference or her being able to view different universes like Fabro rather than them being roomies given how in Sabers ending they clearly don't know each other and her homefield line to her. Being outside of space-time or a universe doesn't mean something in necessarily outside of all universes in the sense that there is only one iteration.

Problem with this is that AE (from Melty Blood) was woken up by little Olga turning simulations into real worlds in the Extra verse, which should be a different set of universes. To me that tells me even different universes are somewhat connected to one another, and there should only be one brain among all universes. Otherwise that would mean we can have Goetia/Kiara as the planet itself in one verse and AE in another and they can both sense what the other is doing which is weird.
We know even characters in a lower hierarchy can interact with parallel worlds like individual demon gods like Zepar forming a link between CCC Kiara and FGO Kiara.

Branch timelines are obviously something that other planets have given how the Moon Cell can just casually destroy all timelines for a world. It's a little weird though how CM didn't seem to be aware of them given how he was surprised by the second magic, which is effectively the multiple timelines. It makes me wonder how Zelretch would react if Goetia or FELE Twice's plans had succeeded and there were only one timeline left. Would that effectively destroy the second magic, or would new timelines just start popping up?

I don't think other planets even have parallel worlds, pruning and any of those concepts. It seems to be a feature of intelligent life and as far as we can tell other planets in the solar system don't really have intelligent life.
The Moon Cell is different in that's a supercomputer created by an intelligent civilization that took control over Earth's concepts and it's currently in it's management.

[Nanaya]

I don't see why different universes being able to interact would be an issue. Gotta have crossovers. Anyway I doubt there is only one Arc to rule them all and some worlds probably don't even have an active brain.

[Comun]

I don't think other planets even have parallel worlds, pruning and any of those concepts. It seems to be a feature of intelligent life and as far as we can tell other planets in the solar system don't really have intelligent life.

The Second Magic concerns the attestation and application of parallel worlds.

Attestation. Parallel worlds weren't real in Earth either until Zelretch invented then.

By making it possible to travel to parallel worlds, he proved that there is still room for the world to develop in alternate ways.
Thanks to this, the world’s lifespan has been extended. Even if our history fails, and we destroy ourselves, there might still be others of us out there—this concept granted hope to the planet, which had been in the process of losing its dreams.

Zelretch is even credited with single-handedly sparing the planet from an early death, which should tell you parallel worlds is not a concept that occurs naturally to planets, having sapient life or otherwise.

[Dartz]

I see, that's pretty cool. So that means it's even more unlikely the concept can be applied to planets other than Earth.
Although that makes me wonder how is it there seems to be parallel worlds before Zelretch came up with the Second Magic. Like Extraverse is defined by the Moon Cell existing in the solar system since Earth was formed, but not in any other universe. As well as the Lost Belts.
Did they retroactively pop into existence when the Second became a thing?

[fumei]

Attestation. Parallel worlds weren't real in Earth either until Zelretch invented then.



Zelretch is even credited with single-handedly sparing the planet from an early death, which should tell you parallel worlds is not a concept that occurs naturally to planets, having sapient life or otherwise.

Remember, the five magics are a graph (at least if you don't think about it too hard).

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I see, that's pretty cool. So that means it's even more unlikely the concept can be applied to planets other than Earth.
Although that makes me wonder how is it there seems to be parallel worlds before Zelretch came up with the Second Magic. Like Extraverse is defined by the Moon Cell existing in the solar system since Earth was formed, but not in any other universe. As well as the Lost Belts.
Did they retroactively pop into existence when the Second became a thing?

Consider how lostbelts work, and how the whole of the human texture will unravel if its pins are lifted.

[Delastogos]

So the Zelretch of different worlds just keep expanding the number of timelines and regulate them as well?